What is the importance of this prophecy

[Randy Kluth]

we see how fundamentalism negates the word of God!
Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mark 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
1 cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

Notice the connection between the Eucharist and the passion of Jesus Christ!

It is the sacrifice of Christ!

The Eucharist symbolizes the sacrifice of Christ. Enjoying a meal commemorating that event is not in itself the *sacrifice of Christ!*

You are not defending the Scriptures when you misrepresent them. When Christ says something obviously intended to be taken as symbolic, you fail to properly represent what he was saying.

As an example, you're like those who misinterpreted Jesus in the following account:

John 6.41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”...

Jesus was *not* saying he literally descended from heaven *physically!* And yet Jesus' detractors thought to catch him in his words, fabricating stories. He was actually only stating, figuratively, that he originated from heaven, even though he was born on earth literally.

51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

We know full well that Jesus was not speaking of cannibalism! Nor was he saying that he was literally *bread!* And yet that's how his detractors thought to accuse him, of failing to literally interpret his own symbolic words!

And that's also what you're doing brother, accusing me of failing to properly interpret Jesus' symbolic words literally. Clearly, if Jesus meant his words to be taken symbolically, and he did, then it's you who are trying to confuse not just what he said, but also what he meant!

The principle of determining whether language is meant to be taken figuratively or literally is easy. If something doesn't make sense literally, it is meant to be taken figuratively.

In this case, Jesus meant to say that the wine represented his blood, because it doesn't make sense for him to say that his own blood was in the cup they were drinking. And yet you defy the laws of logic in language use to uphold a mystical interpretation in order to make Catholicism the exclusive source of Salvation.

How disrespectful to Christ, and how idolatrous is that! Christ alone is the source of Salvation through his sacrifice. The distributors of Communion are not the source of Salvation, but are only facilitating a ceremony to commemorate the fact Jesus became our Salvation on the cross.

You are engaging in religious idolatry, and glorifying Man instead of God, instead of God's Christ! You really must turn from Man and turn to God alone. He alone is our God!

 

[Randy Kluth]

I think your confusing two things
One is the Queenship of Mary
The other is the perpetual virginity of Mary
All of the doctrines about Mary were defended by the Protestant so called reformers only the fundamentalists deny them

It is *you* who are arguing sectarian tradition, or human tradition--not me! I don't agree with everything taught in Protestantism, nor should you agree with everything taught in Catholicism. We are to worship God--not Man! There was only one Man worthy of worship, and he was God! The Church falls far below any standard of worshiping. You should know that. You should feel convicted of that!

The whole purpose of the Protestant Movement was to make Catholicism accountable--not to itself, but to the Scriptures. If you argue only for Catholic Tradition, you are leaving God out of the loop completely, and you have no basis for reform except those who wish to uphold Catholic Tradition for their own exclusive benefit.

It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a virgin.

I really don't care if Catholics or Protestants have believed in Mary's perpetual virginity. The Scriptures *do not state it!* This is a doctrine *added to* the Scriptures. I'm not here to defend Protestantism, although at least they tried to base reform on biblical teaching.

The early Protestants were originally Catholics, ie until the Catholic Church wished to burn them at the stake! Then, these Protestant leaders began to see Catholic leaders as antichrists, or simply corrupt Catholics.

So I'm not surprised that early Protestants carried on some Catholic traditional thought, whether it included Luther's sense of consubstantiation in the Communion or Mary's perpetual virginity. Overall, Protestantism upholds the Scriptures as the basis of authority over Church Tradition.

And that is the point. There can be no reform of inevitable Christian excesses unless we have a higher authority. And that authority is the Holy Spirt and Scriptures.

 

[amigo de christo]

All roads might lead to ROME
but only ONE WAY LEADS TO GOD . CHRIST JESUS .
Let bibles be open , we have many deceivers abounding in these last days . They are crown takers . Let no man take thy crown .
Let no pope take thy crown , and let no false man within any sect , take thy crown . read those bibles daily and learn and grow in the grace of GOD .

 

[theefaith]

The Eucharist symbolizes the sacrifice of Christ. Enjoying a meal commemorating that event is not in itself the *sacrifice of Christ!*

You are not defending the Scriptures when you misrepresent them. When Christ says something obviously intended to be taken as symbolic, you fail to properly represent what he was saying.

As an example, you're like those who misinterpreted Jesus in the following account:

John 6.41 At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’?”...

Jesus was *not* saying he literally descended from heaven *physically!* And yet Jesus' detractors thought to catch him in his words, fabricating stories. He was actually only stating, figuratively, that he originated from heaven, even though he was born on earth literally.

51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52 Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

We know full well that Jesus was not speaking of cannibalism! Nor was he saying that he was literally *bread!* And yet that's how his detractors thought to accuse him, of failing to literally interpret his own symbolic words!

And that's also what you're doing brother, accusing me of failing to properly interpret Jesus' symbolic words literally. Clearly, if Jesus meant his words to be taken symbolically, and he did, then it's you who are trying to confuse not just what he said, but also what he meant!

The principle of determining whether language is meant to be taken figuratively or literally is easy. If something doesn't make sense literally, it is meant to be taken figuratively.

In this case, Jesus meant to say that the wine represented his blood, because it doesn't make sense for him to say that his own blood was in the cup they were drinking. And yet you defy the laws of logic in language use to uphold a mystical interpretation in order to make Catholicism the exclusive source of Salvation.

How disrespectful to Christ, and how idolatrous is that! Christ alone is the source of Salvation through his sacrifice. The distributors of Communion are not the source of Salvation, but are only facilitating a ceremony to commemorate the fact Jesus became our Salvation on the cross.

You are engaging in religious idolatry, and glorifying Man instead of God, instead of God's Christ! You really must turn from Man and turn to God alone. He alone is our God!

the historic Christian Faith!

Matthew 26:26
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this ismy body.

not just a commemoration meal

it is the new covenant Passover sacrifice of christ

you could not just kill the lamb and spread it’s blood on the door post
You had to eat the lamb!

It is the sacrifice of Christ!

Mosaic: covenant

Exodus 12

3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:

4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.

5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:

6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.

10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.

11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.

12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.

13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.




Offering of the liturgy!
The holy sacrifice of Jesus Christ!
Luke 22:19 “do this in memory of me”!


The Passover
(The new covenant Passover sacrifice of Christ)

“It is finished” not the redemptive work of Christ but the Passover sacrifice!

The cup refers to the Passover
The sacrifice prefigured the sacrifice of Christ
Christ was celebrating the Passover and changing it into the new covenant Passover in his own body and blood
Began in the last supper with the psalm then to the garden and ended with his death in the cross with the words commanded to be said at the consummation of the Passover sacrifice by the high priest “IT IS FINISHED”!!!

jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Notice the connection to his betrayal and death

1 cor 5:6-8
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast

So
The Passover
(The new covenant Passover sacrifice of Christ)


The cup refers to the Passover
The sacrifice prefigured the sacrifice of Christ
Christ was celebrating the Passover and changing it into the new covenant Passover in his own body and blood
Began in the last supper with the psalm then to the garden and ended with his death in the cross with the words commanded to be said at the consummation of the Passover sacrifice by the high priest “IT IS FINISHED”!!!

jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 cor 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.
Notice the connection to his betrayal and death

1 cor 5:6-8
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast

So the it in “it is finished” is not the work of redemption but the Passover sacrifice!

but something is missing we have to eat the lamb

jn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

“It is finished” the Passover sacrifice!
Consummation of the new Passover or the beginning of the new and eternal covenant!

 

[theefaith]

It is *you* who are arguing sectarian tradition, or human tradition--not me! I don't agree with everything taught in Protestantism, nor should you agree with everything taught in Catholicism. We are to worship God--not Man! There was only one Man worthy of worship, and he was God! The Church falls far below any standard of worshiping. You should know that. You should feel convicted of that!

The whole purpose of the Protestant Movement was to make Catholicism accountable--not to itself, but to the Scriptures. If you argue only for Catholic Tradition, you are leaving God out of the loop completely, and you have no basis for reform except those who wish to uphold Catholic Tradition for their own exclusive benefit.



I really don't care if Catholics or Protestants have believed in Mary's perpetual virginity. The Scriptures *do not state it!* This is a doctrine *added to* the Scriptures. I'm not here to defend Protestantism, although at least they tried to base reform on biblical teaching.

The early Protestants were originally Catholics, ie until the Catholic Church wished to burn them at the stake! Then, these Protestant leaders began to see Catholic leaders as antichrists, or simply corrupt Catholics.

So I'm not surprised that early Protestants carried on some Catholic traditional thought, whether it included Luther's sense of consubstantiation in the Communion or Mary's perpetual virginity. Overall, Protestantism upholds the Scriptures as the basis of authority over Church Tradition.

And that is the point. There can be no reform of inevitable Christian excesses unless we have a higher authority. And that authority is the Holy Spirt and Scriptures.

the apostles and the church have authority

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

where do you get this idea that it has to be scripture that is the only authority?

the historic church never taught it
Scripture does not teach it?
And without the church and her authority from Christ you CANNOT know what is scripture and what is not scripture

 

[Randy Kluth]

the apostles and the church have authority

*All* Christians have authority, when we are called and sent by God, when we are gifted by the Holy Spirit to do and to say certain things. The Apostles were not given to *rule* over the Church. Our kingdom is not of this world, but is from heaven.

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

*All" Christians who are called and sent by God have the authority to loose men from their sins, through the preaching of Christ. And all Christians have the authority to bind those who try to find Salvation in any other name than Christ. Those entrusted with the Gospel of Christ inherently have the authority to bring Salvation to others. There is no superior authority in the Apostles. They do not exercise earthly rule over the Church. We all rule with Christ from heaven, and not in an earthly kingdom.

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Yes, but only as long as those entrusted with the word of God are faithful to the word of God! When they fall short, they lose their "moral authority."

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

This is the myth of bureaucratic succession in the Church. In reality, the Early Church had no *catholic church.* The apostles went out in different directions, founding independent churches wherever they went. Unity among churches was spiritual, and not organizational, nor bureaucratic. Organization was, of course, necessary. But it is neither required nor desirable to have an overarching bureaucracy to manage spiritual unity. Spiritual unity happens quite apart from organization or consolidation. The Tower of Babel syndrome can actually do harm to spiritual unity.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

Christ administers grace directly to men, and does not use intermediaries to administer this grace. Salvation does not pass through church leadership to get to the masses. Salvation can take place for an individual in the desert. Salvation is by a relationship with Christ alone. The Church is merely the messenger!

where do you get this idea that it has to be scripture that is the only authority?

There is a pattern in the Scriptures, in which God lays down a law and expects Man to live by it. We are to live by "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." His words were recorded precisely so that men don't forget. When we stray we need something to come back to, in order to reform.

the historic church never taught it
Scripture does not teach it?
And without the church and her authority from Christ you CANNOT know what is scripture and what is not scripture

God has always used mankind to exercise His spiritual dominion on earth. But the Church can either be faithful or unfaithful. Since all men are flawed with the Sin Nature, we would do well to turn to the Scriptures to authorize what our traditions have become, lest they fall short. If we think the Church cannot fall short, we would do well to pay heed to the lesson of Scriptures, seeing that Israel was constantly going astray. The NT Scriptures also see the Church in danger of sin, and in perpetual need of admonishment and reform.

You're wrong to say that the Scriptures were not the basis of guidance and reform. Read Psalm 119.

 

[amigo de christo]

The mother of harlots and abominations of the earth . Let none who name the name of JESUS enter into her chambers .
For her ways are the ways of death and the dead know not that her path leads unto hell .
Beware her at all costs . her influence is massive . She sits atop many waters and has much influence over the kings of this world .
Enter not into her ways , enter not into her chambers . For though she sings a song unto many , her song is death and shall lead
all unto the second death . Beware my friends , and test all things that men do teach . Do so against biblical doctrine .
For the Harlot waits at every corner to seduce the simple and has made her adulterous bed of fornication ready . HEED HER NOT .

 

[Randy Kluth]

not just a commemoration meal

Actually, that is what Jesus said, that the Eucharist was to be done in *memory* of what he was going to do! It was, in fact, a "commemoration meal," according to his own words! So you want to pervert Scriptures for the sake of Catholic Tradition? I would rather defer to the foundation of the Church--the Apostles of Christ and to Christ himself!

it is the new covenant Passover sacrifice of christ

You and many others in your Church have a language issue. Christ's sacrifice took place on Calvary at one moment in history, on one day in history. All else is commemoration.

Luke 22:19 “do this in memory of me”!

Exactly! "In memory of me." It was to be a commemoration meal.

The Passover
(The new covenant Passover sacrifice of Christ)

“It is finished” not the redemptive work of Christ but the Passover sacrifice!

I don't know what you mean by this. The finished work of Christ is over and done with--his redemption of our souls. This was all accomplished and finished for all time on the cross. Evangelism continues. Salvation being received continues. But the *work of redemption* was finished on the cross. The Eucharist is commemorative of that. It does not repeat the sacrifice of Christ over and over again. This is a symbolic liturgy being repeated, and not the actual sacrifice of Christ in some mystical sense! This is crazy talk!

The cup refers to the Passover
The sacrifice prefigured the sacrifice of Christ

Is this a typing error? "The sacrifice prefigured the sacrifice?"

Christ was celebrating the Passover and changing it into the new covenant Passover in his own body and blood

Well, yes and no. He wasn't actually changing the Passover Meal at that time. The Law was still in effect, and the *old* Passover Meal was still being required by Jesus of his Disciples.

But clearly, Jesus was showing them that he was the thing for which the Passover Meal had been given. He had come to fulfil what had only prefigured his final sacrifice, covering all sins for all time. The sacrifices of the Law could only cover sin temporarily, for men still had to die. But now that Christ has completed his final sacrifice, men can rise from the dead, never to die again.

It is absurd to think that we must engage in a Passover-style ceremony in order to continue to make sacrifices, as under the Law, to obtain forgiveness of sin that requires continuous liturgical obedience!

I suppose you have all of your answers already copied and ready to be re-posted? You're not really interested in looking at this matter for yourself, are you?

 

[Marvelloustime]

The mother of harlots and abominations of the earth . Let none who name the name of JESUS enter into her chambers .
For her ways are the ways of death and the dead know not that her path leads unto hell .
Beware her at all costs . her influence is massive . She sits atop many waters and has much influence over the kings of this world .
Enter not into her ways , enter not into her chambers . For though she sings a song unto many , her song is death and shall lead
all unto the second death . Beware my friends , and test all things that men do teach . Do so against biblical doctrine .
For the Harlot waits at every corner to seduce the simple and has made her adulterous bed of fornication ready . HEED HER NOT .

Thank you brother for the reminders. We all need to be reminded to keep on the biblical path of the Lord Jesus.

Let us all praise the Lord.

 

[theefaith]

The act of childbirth would destroy a woman's virginity.

You are wrong theefaith and your beliefs are not Biblical. The Roman Catholic Church will not be spared Judgment in the last days. Revelation 17:1-18

rev 17 is for the pagan Roman Empire
Conquered by Christ and his church in one hour

 

[theefaith]

I'm not sure what the code was. God wasn't for royalty originally, in the earthly sphere. True royalty comes from heaven. However, God tolerated royalty in Israel. And it seems there were queen mothers and queen wives. Males tended to have the governmental and family authority, but that is not to say that females did not have their own kind of authority. They also were given to "subdue the earth." Those who step outside of God's authority to abuse females will pay the price of divine anger.

So often, kings had wives that shared some of their authority in the kingdom. Why you would think not, I don't know?

Mary's story about asking Jesus to help with wine at a wedding has nothing to do with her being a "queen." She simply knew what Jesus was like and what he was capable of. And she called upon him like any of us would call upon God in prayer. She could never demand anything of Jesus--he could do no wrong.



Rather, Jesus did the miracle. It was to glorify his Father in heaven, and to direct us to him--not to Mary. Mary was graciously allowed to participate in the story.

It’s Mary her intercession obtained the blessings to the newlyweds and His disciples who believed thru Her intercession
Same as the blessing granted yo the family of JTB in Lk 1

 

[theefaith]

*All* Christians have authority, when we are called and sent by God, when we are gifted by the Holy Spirit to do and to say certain things. The Apostles were not given to *rule* over the Church. Our kingdom is not of this world, but is from heaven.



*All" Christians who are called and sent by God have the authority to loose men from their sins, through the preaching of Christ. And all Christians have the authority to bind those who try to find Salvation in any other name than Christ. Those entrusted with the Gospel of Christ inherently have the authority to bring Salvation to others. There is no superior authority in the Apostles. They do not exercise earthly rule over the Church. We all rule with Christ from heaven, and not in an earthly kingdom.



Yes, but only as long as those entrusted with the word of God are faithful to the word of God! When they fall short, they lose their "moral authority."



This is the myth of bureaucratic succession in the Church. In reality, the Early Church had no *catholic church.* The apostles went out in different directions, founding independent churches wherever they went. Unity among churches was spiritual, and not organizational, nor bureaucratic. Organization was, of course, necessary. But it is neither required nor desirable to have an overarching bureaucracy to manage spiritual unity. Spiritual unity happens quite apart from organization or consolidation. The Tower of Babel syndrome can actually do harm to spiritual unity.



Christ administers grace directly to men, and does not use intermediaries to administer this grace. Salvation does not pass through church leadership to get to the masses. Salvation can take place for an individual in the desert. Salvation is by a relationship with Christ alone. The Church is merely the messenger!



There is a pattern in the Scriptures, in which God lays down a law and expects Man to live by it. We are to live by "every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." His words were recorded precisely so that men don't forget. When we stray we need something to come back to, in order to reform.



God has always used mankind to exercise His spiritual dominion on earth. But the Church can either be faithful or unfaithful. Since all men are flawed with the Sin Nature, we would do well to turn to the Scriptures to authorize what our traditions have become, lest they fall short. If we think the Church cannot fall short, we would do well to pay heed to the lesson of Scriptures, seeing that Israel was constantly going astray. The NT Scriptures also see the Church in danger of sin, and in perpetual need of admonishment and reform.

You're wrong to say that the Scriptures were not the basis of guidance and reform. Read Psalm 119.

spiritual blindness
Fundamentalist scales
Anarchy

 

[theefaith]

Actually, that is what Jesus said, that the Eucharist was to be done in *memory* of what he was going to do! It was, in fact, a "commemoration meal," according to his own words! So you want to pervert Scriptures for the sake of Catholic Tradition? I would rather defer to the foundation of the Church--the Apostles of Christ and to Christ himself!



You and many others in your Church have a language issue. Christ's sacrifice took place on Calvary at one moment in history, on one day in history. All else is commemoration.



Exactly! "In memory of me." It was to be a commemoration meal.



I don't know what you mean by this. The finished work of Christ is over and done with--his redemption of our souls. This was all accomplished and finished for all time on the cross. Evangelism continues. Salvation being received continues. But the *work of redemption* was finished on the cross. The Eucharist is commemorative of that. It does not repeat the sacrifice of Christ over and over again. This is a symbolic liturgy being repeated, and not the actual sacrifice of Christ in some mystical sense! This is crazy talk!



Is this a typing error? "The sacrifice prefigured the sacrifice?"



Well, yes and no. He wasn't actually changing the Passover Meal at that time. The Law was still in effect, and the *old* Passover Meal was still being required by Jesus of his Disciples.

But clearly, Jesus was showing them that he was the thing for which the Passover Meal had been given. He had come to fulfil what had only prefigured his final sacrifice, covering all sins for all time. The sacrifices of the Law could only cover sin temporarily, for men still had to die. But now that Christ has completed his final sacrifice, men can rise from the dead, never to die again.

It is absurd to think that we must engage in a Passover-style ceremony in order to continue to make sacrifices, as under the Law, to obtain forgiveness of sin that requires continuous liturgical obedience!

I suppose you have all of your answers already copied and ready to be re-posted? You're not really interested in looking at this matter for yourself, are you?

what has the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles with authority always done for 2000 yrs?

 

[Keraz]

Are you denying the historic Christian doctrine of the Virgin birth?

I am pointing out the foolishness of your belief. That Mary was a perpetual virgin.

 

[theefaith]

I am pointing out the foolishness of your belief. That Mary was a perpetual virgin.

your saying the Bible is foolish?

Isa 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
(Singular, a son)

Matt 1: 16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
(Of Mary was born only Jesus)

matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
(singular)

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
(Singular)

Only God can be born of a Virgin

St Augustine, Sermons 186.1 (early 5th century):

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

St Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, III.28.3 (13th century):

"Without any hesitation we must abhor the error of Helvidius, who dared to assert that Christ's Mother, after His Birth, was carnally known by Joseph, and bore other children.

For, in the first place, this is derogatory to Christ's perfection: for as He is in His Godhead the Only-Begotten of the Father, being thus His Son in every respect perfect, so it was becoming that He should be the Only-begotten son of His Mother, as being her perfect offspring.

“Secondly, this error is an insult to the Holy Ghost, whose "shrine" was the virginal womb, wherein He had formed the flesh of Christ: wherefore it was unbecoming that it should be desecrated by intercourse with man.

“Thirdly, this is derogatory to the dignity and holiness of God's Mother: for thus she would seem to be most ungrateful, were she not content with such a Son; and were she, of her own accord, by carnal intercourse to forfeit that virginity which had been miraculously preserved in her.

“Fourthly, it would be tantamount to an imputation of extreme presumption in Joseph, to assume that he attempted to violate her whom by the angel's revelation he knew to have conceived by the Holy Ghost.

“We must therefore simply assert that the Mother of God, as she was a virgin in conceiving Him and a virgin in giving Him birth, did she remain a virgin ever afterwards."

 

[theefaith]

I am pointing out the foolishness of your belief. That Mary was a perpetual virgin.

Is it not strange that it is basically unquestioned for 1800 yrs until the days of the rigorist fundamentalists and Pentecostal types and only cos they can’t ever allow the true church founded by Christ to be right about anything

ever hear about the
“burned over district”?

 

[theefaith]

Do this in memory of me refers to his priests offering his sacrifice

Jn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

 

[Oseas]

Not biblically

the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ with his priests offering his eternal sacrifice
And the sacraments

The Eucharist celebrated in the idolater Roman Catholic Church, a worship celebrated by idolaters according to the doctrine of the Great Whore, the RCC, and what they do is just a satanic dissimulation of celebration made by the Lord JESUS in memory of His death hanged on the cross that the Devil was preparing for Him instead for Barabbas a robber and evildoer.

Every religious ceremony performed by the idolaters and pedophiles priests besides it be a disguised imitation, it is a sorcerie,it is a celebration made by the spirit of the Devil.

The celebration of eucharist in the idolater Roman Catholic Church has nothing to do with the Spirit of God the Father, nor of Jesus, nor of the Holy Spirit, but the spirit of Devil and Satan, the old Serpent, the red Dragon, the father of lie.

The eucharist celebrated by demons is a source of disease, serious illness, and death, and all sorts of misfortunes that happen in the life of peoples around the earth because it is a satanic cerimony made by demons.

Eucharist made by the idolater Roman Catholic Church is witchcraft, sorcery, a celebration of idolaters and a cult of demons.

Revelation 18

Babylon the Great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Actually all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her PLAGUES.

I tell this in the NAME of the LORD Jesus Christ,

in Christ JESUS, KING of kings (kings made by Him), and LORD of the lords

 

[Timtofly]

there’s always matt 16:18



1 kings 2:12 Then sat Solomon upon the throne of David his father; and his kingdom was established greatly.

13 And Adonijah the son of Haggith came to Bathsheba the mother of Solomon. And she said, Comest thou peaceably? And he said, Peaceably.

14 He said moreover, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And she said, Say on.

15 And he said, Thou knowest that the kingdom was mine, and that all Israel set their faces on me, that I should reign: howbeit the kingdom is turned about, and is become my brother's: for it was his from the Lord.

16 And now I ask one petition of thee, deny me not. And she said unto him, Say on.

17 And he said, Speak, I pray thee, unto Solomon the king, (for he will not say thee nay,) that he give me Abishag the Shunammite to wife.

18 And Bathsheba said, Well; I will speak for thee unto the king.

19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.

20 Then she said, I desire one small petition of thee; I pray thee, say me not nay. And the king said unto her, Ask on, my mother: for I will not say thee nay.

So, still no mention of Queen. Letting her sit down and asking his mother for advice is not making her queen. Letting her sit was being respectful. There is still that 5th Commandment.


Trying to enforce pagan occult onto God's Word is blasphemy.

 

[Keraz]

ever hear about the
“burned over district”?

No; and I'm not interested to hear about it from you.
Your beliefs are hopelessly confused and contradict scripture.