Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
No Jesus david and Solomon’s queens were their mothers not wifes
Yes, there were queen mothers, but there are also queen-wives. What's your point?
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No Jesus david and Solomon’s queens were their mothers not wifes
The same way i did , another true believer baptized me . And we have communion together as well .And where do I get the sacraments or baptism?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
And where do I get the sacraments or baptism?
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
You missed or bypassed my point again, but perhaps your eyes are dim... Are mine?Eve was a Virgin in the garden, but she did not remain a Virgin, so scripture never call her a Virgin!
isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
lk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
So a Virgin she must remain
Yes, there were queen mothers, but there are also queen-wives. What's your point?
The same way i did , another true believer baptized me . And we have communion together as well .
The bread and the wine . So flee the RCC my friend . You will be prayed for as well .
The sacraments are not the basis of our Salvation--Christ is. When you make Christ your Lord, you have all you need for Salvation. Just follow him as Lord, and you'll be fine. Joining thus with Christ *spiritually* you're Baptized with a Spirit Baptism, which is superior to Water Baptism. Water Baptism merely symbolizes the more important Spirit Baptism that Jesus came to bring.
The Eucharist, or Communion Service, is simply Christians getting together and honoring Christ by taking emblems to represent our spiritual participation in his Spirit and in his Life. The big deal is to remember Christ, and to remember that we are to participate in him spiritually, by obeying his word and by living in him.
no scripture never says they had sex, just the opposite
lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Try actually reading the Bible. Mary was a virgin WHEN SHE HAD JESUS, but not after that, as it says Joseph had sex with Mary AFTER Jesus was born, as every husband has the legal and moral right to do with his wife. Matthew 1:25
Not biblically
the Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ with his priests offering his eternal sacrifice
And the sacraments
Mark 16:16
he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!
Mary was a Virgin always or not at all
Eve was a Virgin in the garden but did not remain a Virgin so scripture never calls her a Virgin
Mary is called a Virgin
Isa 7:14
Lk 1:27
The Bible never says anyone is a biological child of Mary accept for Jesus Christ!
And the Bible says Her child is holy! And Her child is God!
Is 7:14 God provides a sign, a Virgin shall conceive and bear a son! (Singular, one son)
Ezekiel 44:2 “This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut.”
Song of Solomon 4:12 A garden inclosed is my sister, my spouse; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
Matt 1:25 He knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.
2 Samuel 6:23 tells us: Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child UNTIL the day of her death.
Are we to assume that Michal had children after she died?
Until only states that they had no relation up to that point, the Bible does not say they had sex ever, before or after that point!
First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
The Bible says Joseph a just and therefore a chaste man, it does not say he has gone into Mary where the Holy Spirit has conceived, 2 Sam 12:24 And David comforted Bathsheba his wife, and went in unto her, and lay with her: and she bare a son, and he called his name Solomon: and the Lord loved him. Never says this about a Joseph, for He was full of fear and reverence for Her immaculate purity and holiness!
never says they had sex
lk 1:34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Found no where in all of God's Word. Else you would have provided proof. Man made opinion only.No Jesus david and Solomon’s queens were their mothers not wifes
not in the line of king david
The mother of the king in queen
And the king grants any request she has, especially Jesus who always obeyed His own commandments
Honor thy father and mother
Jn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
thanks to mother Mary
The act of childbirth would destroy a woman's virginity.Mary was a Virgin always or not at all
Yes, biblically. There isn't a thing I've told you that isn't Bible-based. You just have a different interpretation, placing the Catholic Church and its authorities between you and Christ.
For me, nothing is between Christ and me. Rather, Christ is the thing that is between God and me. He is "God come to me."
The Catholic Church does not "come to me." If they do, they don't bring me Salvation. Only Christ can do that.
You are making a language error. Do you know what a "manner of speaking" means? It means that language is flexible and can connote things that aren't really meant to be taken literally.
Jesus didn't mean to say that the grape juice, or wine, he was drinking was his literal blood! That's pure insanity. Everybody at the table knew exactly what he was saying. He was, in effect, predicting his imminent death, although at that point in time, the disciples really failed to grasp that. However, I feel confident they knew he was *not* saying that the wine they were drinking was his literal blood!
Don't say that what I'm saying is "unbiblical" simply because you fail to understand the nuances of how language is used. It is clearly biblical what I'm saying, that Jesus said, "Do this in remembrance of me." We engage in a symbolic ceremony to remember to grasp the importance of our participation in the life and in the death of Christ. Living in him we also lay down our carnal will to follow him.
This is *not* saying that you must be Water Baptized to be saved! Rather, Jesus is just saying that those who embrace Christianity, exemplified by Water Baptism, will have eternal life, or Salvation. It is the embrace of Christianity that saves--not the Water Baptism. Water Baptism is purely a public representation that one has come to follow Christ. It is in following Christ that we are saved--not in getting wet by Water Baptism!
What terrible arguments, brother! Mary is called a "virgin," and that automatically means she has to be a virgin forever? A lot of people are called "virgins," brother--virtually all in ancient Judaism who had not yet been engaged to be married. Did that make them all perpetual virgins? I think not!
So Mary was a virgin always or not at all? What kind of argument is that? Is every young girl who is still a virgin "always a virgin, or not at all?" Absurd argumentation. You're just arguing what you *want* to believe because it's Catholic tradition. There isn't a bit of rationality in your arguments.
Jewish tradition would hardly have a woman married only to remain a virgin! This is against Jewish culture, and certainly not said in the Bible.
Jesus being God does *not* make Mary a virgin in perpetuity. It only makes her a virgin before giving birth to the God-Man!
This says not a single thing about Mary remaining a virgin! Talk about an absurd argument! If the Holy Spirit had wanted to say Mary was a perpetual virgin, it would've been said in the clearest possible fashion. In fact it would likely have to be said, since it was against Jewish culture for a married women to deny her husband. Paul himself denied a married woman the right to remain without sexual relationship.
This is what a virgin is before she marries, or before she actually *consummates* her marriage.
This was a curse upon Michal, and has nothing to do with Mary. Mary and Michal are about as far apart spiritually as one can be!
There are a lot of things the Bible doesn't say, and it likely would not describe Michal's sex life. What it does say is that her irreligiosity brought down a curse upon her so that she could not have children. That did not mean she couldn't have sex or didn't have sex.
First born does not imply there is no next born, etc.
Comparing David's sin and Joseph's abstinence bears no relationship at all with one another. Obviously, one person may capitulate to illegitimate sexual practices, whereas another may obey God on a given occasion. If we are to properly compare David and Joseph, you will discover that David was repentant and continued to live a very godly, obedient life overall. Joseph also had his moment of unbelief and doubt, I'm sure.
Arguments from Silence do *not* hold water! Why would someone's sex life be on open display ever?
Not the point. Mary was a virgin before she had Jesus. Then, after she had Jesus, she likely had other children. Your arguments bear no resemblance to common logic. Obviously, the arguments are not what convinces you. Rather, Catholic Tradition convinces you, without any regard for the Scriptural arguments at all. None of your arguments mean anything in this discussion.
Found no where in all of God's Word. Else you would have provided proof. Man made opinion only.
Found no where in all of God's Word. Else you would have provided proof. Man made opinion only.
The act of childbirth would destroy a woman's virginity.
You are wrong theefaith and your beliefs are not Biblical. The Roman Catholic Church will not be spared Judgment in the last days. Revelation 17:1-18
there’s always matt 16:18
1 kings 2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.
20 Then she said, I desire one small petition of thee; I pray thee, say me not nay. And the king said unto her, Ask on, my mother: for I will not say thee nay.
So all of your arguments about Mary's supposed perpetual virginity really have to do with upholding Catholic tradition? Incidentally, stating Peter as being part of the foundation of the Church bears no relation to establishing an ecclesiastical tradition. We know not only how Peter is perceived of as being a foundation of the Church, but we also know that others were equally part of this foundation.
Rev 21.14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
This shows that Peter was one of 12 foundational members of the Church, including all 12 original apostles of Christ. They initiated the Church by transmitting Christ's doctrines to the first churches.
Rev 21.19 The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third agate, the fourth emerald, 20 the fifth onyx, the sixth ruby, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth turquoise, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. 21 The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The great street of the city was of gold, as pure as transparent glass.
We know from this that this was not about founding an ecclesiastical tradition, but rather, about establishing that Christ is the entry into the Kingdom of heaven. All 12 apostles carried the message that Christ was the "pearl of great price." The message was about universal Christendom, and not limited to a particular ecclesiastical tradition. It was about entry into the Kingdom of God through Christ, and not through the Church. It was about beautifying the Church through Christian transformation, and not purely about a Christian "pecking order."
You think the existence of Bathsheba as a queen mother is "proof" of Mary's perpetual virginity? How strange! If that's your proof, it's an indication you have nothing but Catholic tradition to back up this absurd claim.
It is Jewish law for a son to honor his mother. And so, a Jewish king honors his mother, so long as she observes the Law. The existence of a queen mother is simply part of this tradition--it neither establishes Mary's perpetual virginity nor shows Mary as somehow equal in authority to Jesus. Jesus' authority is from heaven, and he had no royal position on earth, nor will he exercise his royal authority on earth until the Kingdom comes.