<theefaith> - Roman Catholic - proclaims Mary overshadows the Holy Ghost, the power of the Highest, Christ and, the Father.
What is the importance of this prophecy
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
No, it's not possible that Mary be sinless. Under the Law, all Jews were required to have sacrifices made for them because they were all sinners. Only Jesus came down from heaven to be born--not Mary, and not anybody else. Mary herself referred to God as her "Savior."
Lk 1:46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, (Her immaculate pure soul)
47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. (Saved by preservation from all sin by the merits of Her Son)
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
"saved by preservation from all sin by the merits of Her Son" is not in the Scriptures. Sorry! That's an addition. And there is no precedent for believing in that apart from the Catholic practice of Mariolatry. Forget about Mary. Forget about ancestor worship. Forget about patriotism and ethnic pride. Forget about Man-worship. Forget about Woman-worship. Forget about elevating someone to equality with God. There is one God. He alone is the One we should serve!
why does it have to be in the scripture?
Where does the scripture say it needs to be in the scripture?
There is the authority of the apostles in scripture and they have always taught it
Matt 28:19 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21 acts 2:42
never said Mary is God or that she is to be worshiped
You can apologize now?
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
The Apostles are the doctrinal foundation for the Church...
Eph 2.19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
Paul demonstrated his authority here...
1 Cor 7.This is the rule I lay down in all the churches.
2 Thes 2.For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”
The call of Prophet and Priest was to ensure compliance with the written word of God. In the OT, that written word was the Law of Moses. In the NT, it is the job of Apostles and Prophets and ministers of Christ to ensure compliance with the NT Gospel of Christ. The leadership is not creating its own rules, but requiring conformity with already-established teachings set forth from the time of the Early Church, when the Apostles made Jesus' teachings clear.
I'm not going to apologize for what *I view* as a form of Mary Worship! You said that by virtue of giving birth to the God-Man she retains some divine features, as well, including sinlessness and royalty. She played no role in our Salvation, with respect to the Law of God. Legally, she was sin-infected and equal with all Christians. If she was more virtuous than others who did not succeed in a life of obedience, this did not make her superior to them. It just made her more virtuous than them.
I gave you Scriptures, and you completely ignored them. Go back and read about how the eye relates to the toe, about how James said you're not to treat others with partiality, how those who lead in the Church are not to lead as worldly bureaucrats or government leaders. We are to be humble and to prefer others over ourselves.
It's telling that you ignore this. You want to retain Catholic doctrine *for your own personal benefit.* It is *party spirit,* or the spirit of divisive sectarianism. Abandon that, and God will not hate you. You will open the door to fellowship with all true Christians, and leave the divisive religious rhetoric thankfully behind you!
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
A vicious LIE. There is not a single document in a 2000 period where Catholics say Mary is God. It's the highest form of stupidity and ignorance.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
Paul wrote that God created two adams. One had a soul. The other had a spirit. The second being Christ. Just as by one man sin entered into the by the world. Righteousness comes through Christ. Do we fully understand how the Father did it? I think not. But He did.
Who’s the new Eve?
Mother of God Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34
Mother of God Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34
Hidden In Him
Well-Known Member
Correct. He was speaking of the sword not made by human hands.
For the word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul (psyche) and Spirit (pneumatos), and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrews 4:12).
Starting from v.25:
25 And behold, there was a man in Jerusalem whose name was Simeon, and this man was just and devout, waiting for the Consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 And it had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not see death before he had seen the Lord’s Messiah. 27 So he came by the Spirit into the temple. And when the parents brought in the Child Jesus, to do for Him according to the custom of the law, 28 he took Him up in his arms and blessed God and said: 29 “Lord, now You are letting Your servant depart in peace, according to Your word; 30 For my eyes have seen Your salvation 31 which You have prepared before the face of all peoples, 32 A light to bring revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of Your people Israel.”
33 And Joseph and His mother marveled at those things which were spoken of Him. 34 Then Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is destined for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign which will be spoken against 35 (yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”
Jesus taught in one place,
11 The greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. 13 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let in those who wish to enter." (Matthew 23:13).
This is the "many" whose hearts would be pierced by the sword made not by hands. It cuts through to reveal what is and is not of God; what is holy and what is sinful in the hearts and intentions of men. The Pharisees were hypocrites, and were being run through with that sword even as Jesus was speaking these words to them. This was the rise and fall of many. Those like the disciples who were receiving the sword of the Spirit and letting it do its work were being raised up as the true leaders of Israel now. The Pharisees were falling away to nothing. But Mary, too, would have the sword pierce her heart. She would have had Jesus be Messiah on earth and establish His kingdom then and not suffer the humiliating and painful death of crucifixion at the hands of the Romans. But this too revealed what was of the soul and what was of the Spirit. The earthly kingdom had not come yet, and as painful as it would be to watch her Son die, He would HAVE to die to pay the price for the sins of all mankind should they wish to accept Him as Savior and Lord.
The Sword of the Spirit is still revealing the thought and intents of many hearts today. It cuts through to reveal what their real intentions are, and exposes it to the Light. Those who embrace the pain of it entering walk away healed, having had the evils excised from their souls (their "psyches"). Those who run from the piercing only put off an operation that must take place if they would be purified. And those who speak against the One who wields this sword will suffer judgment, for He brings it not in vain and they will fall before Him, some never to get up again in this life or the next.
It’s the church, the apostles who have the two edged sword
To define the truth on one side
To condemn error on the other
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
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