What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

[St. SteVen]

I think the initial evidence would be a change in attitude - a person now wants to serve the Lord,

Are you claiming to have been baptized with the Holy Spirit?
Which manifestation of the Holy Spirit was your initial evidence?
Choose from the list of manifestations below.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 NIV
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom,
to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy,
to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a]
and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit,
and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

/

 

[Bob Estey]

You clearly aren't understanding the passage.
What do you make of this?
Why would this tongues-speaker need an interpretation
since they were speaking to God, not the congregation?

1 Corinthians 14:2 NIV
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God.
Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.


Here Paul wants everyone to speak in tongues. But what do you say?
Are you obeying that command?

The issue isn't about good or bad; or a right or wrong.
It's about the church being edified. (built up)
Have you been built up by listening to tongues and interpretation?

1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[a]
but I would rather have you prophesy.
The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues,[b]
unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

/

There isn't much to interpret - if no one is there to interpret what you say, then don't speak in tongues at gatherings. I'm just wondering why anyone would want to speak in tongues in that situation.

 

[Bob Estey]

I suppose you will claim that tongues has ended. If so, why do you say...
"Paul told us not to speak in tongues at a gathering, if no one was there to interpret." ?

Rather a moot point, right?

/ cc: @Bob Estey

I am simply quoting the Apostle Paul.

 

[Bob Estey]

Are you claiming to have been baptized with the Holy Spirit?
Which manifestation of the Holy Spirit was your initial evidence?
Choose from the list of manifestations below.

1 Corinthians 12:7-11 NIV
Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.
8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom,
to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit,
10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy,
to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues,[a]
and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[b]
11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit,
and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

/

I make no claims.

 

[St. SteVen]

I am simply quoting the Apostle Paul.

Quoting and misinterpreting, all the same to you.

/

 

[Bob Estey]

Quoting and misinterpreting, all the same to you.

/

How many ways are there to interpret this?:

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 RSV

 

[St. SteVen]

How many ways are there to interpret this?:

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 RSV

Two ways, I suppose. But you chose the wrong one. IMHO
What does the last phrase in verse 28 say?

It doesn't end at "let each of them keep silence in church". There is an "and". And what?
"... and speak to himself and to God." What did learn that tongues is in verses two? See below.

In verse 28 "keep silence in church" means to not address the whole congregation
with LOUD tongues, when there is no interpreter. Does that help?

1 Corinthians 14:2 NIV
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God.
Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

/

 

[Bob Estey]

Two ways, I suppose. But you chose the wrong one. IMHO
What does the last phrase in verse 28 say?

It doesn't end at "let each of them keep silence in church". There is an "and". And what?
"... and speak to himself and to God." What did learn that tongues is in verses two? See below.

In verse 28 "keep silence in church" means to not address the whole congregation
with LOUD tongues, when there is no interpreter. Does that help?

1 Corinthians 14:2 NIV
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God.
Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

/

You can speak in tongues all you want, except Paul tells us not to do it in a gathering if no one is there to interpret. (1 Corinthians 14:28).

 

[St. SteVen]

You can speak in tongues all you want, except Paul tells us not to do it in a gathering if no one is there to interpret. (1 Corinthians 14:28).

Sigh.
Are you really beyond help?

What does the last phrase in verse 28 say?

It doesn't end at "let each of them keep silence in church". There is an "and". And what?
"... and speak to himself and to God." What did learn that tongues is in verses two? See below.

In verse 28 "keep silence in church" means to not address the whole congregation
with LOUD tongues, when there is no interpreter.

Does that help?

1 Corinthians 14:2 NIV
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God.
Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

/

 

[Bob Estey]

Sigh.
Are you really beyond help?

What does the last phrase in verse 28 say?

It doesn't end at "let each of them keep silence in church". There is an "and". And what?
"... and speak to himself and to God." What did learn that tongues is in verses two? See below.

In verse 28 "keep silence in church" means to not address the whole congregation
with LOUD tongues, when there is no interpreter.

Does that help?

1 Corinthians 14:2 NIV
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God.
Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

/

Beyond help? Is it a crime to obey the Apostle Paul?

 

[St. SteVen]

Beyond help? Is it a crime to obey the Apostle Paul?

No, not a crime. I wish you WOULD obey the Apostle Paul. See below.
(you seem rather selective in what you obey and what you ignore)

1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues...

1 Corinthians 14:39 NIV
... do not forbid speaking in tongues.

/

 

[Bob Estey]

No, not a crime. I wish you WOULD obey the Apostle Paul. See below.
(you seem rather selective in what you obey and what you ignore)

1 Corinthians 14:5 NIV
I would like every one of you to speak in tongues...

1 Corinthians 14:39 NIV
... do not forbid speaking in tongues.

/

Okay, so the Apostle Paul said not to speak in tongues in a gathering, if no one is there to interpret (1 Corinthians 14:28), and you say the opposite. Do I believe you or do I believe Paul?

 

[St. SteVen]

Okay, so the Apostle Paul said not to speak in tongues in a gathering, if no one is there to interpret (1 Corinthians 14:28), and you say the opposite. Do I believe you or do I believe Paul?

Is it a sin to bear false witness?
You are editing what the Apostle said to fit your own misinterpretation.

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 RSV

1 Corinthians 14:2 NIV
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God.
Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

/

 

[Bob Estey]

Is it a sin to bear false witness?
You are editing what the Apostle said to fit your own misinterpretation.

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 RSV

1 Corinthians 14:2 NIV
For anyone who speaks in a tongue[a] does not speak to people but to God.
Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

/

False witness? Didn't you say it's okay to speak in tongues in a gathering when no one is there to interpret?

 

[St. SteVen]

False witness? Didn't you say it's okay to speak in tongues in a gathering when no one is there to interpret?

Yes, as long as you aren't addressing the whole congregation, Bob.
Then it is okay.

What good is interpretation when EVERYONE is speaking in tongues?

1 Corinthians 14:23 NIV
So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or
unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

/

 

[Bob Estey]

Yes, as long as you aren't addressing the whole congregation, Bob.
Then it is okay.

What good is interpretation when EVERYONE is speaking in tongues?

1 Corinthians 14:23 NIV
So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or
unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

/

Paul said:

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 RSV

I'm going to stick with that.

 

[St. SteVen]

Paul said:

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Corinthians 14:27-28 RSV

I'm going to stick with that.

You don't even speak in tongues to my knowledge.
Why should you even care? - LOL

/

 

[quietthinker]

What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?​

The wonderful works of God (The Gospel) was shared in languages the disciples had never learned.

 

[Lambano]

τὸ πνεῦμα ὅπου θέλει πνεῖ καὶ τὴν φωνὴν αὐτοῦ ἀκούεις ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ οἶδας πόθεν ἔρχεται καὶ ποῦ ὑπάγει οὕτως ἐστὶν πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ πνεύματος

Since I wasn't given the gift of speaking in tongues (or interpreting them; any gifts I may have lie elsewhere), I'm still trying to figure out how to hear the sound of the רוּחַ, even if I can't tell where it comes from, or where it is going.

But I do know that Jesus's pun works in both Greek and Hebrew, interestingly enough.

 

[St. SteVen]

τὸ πνεῦμα ὅπου θέλει πνεῖ καὶ τὴν φωνὴν αὐτοῦ ἀκούεις ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ οἶδας πόθεν ἔρχεται καὶ ποῦ ὑπάγει οὕτως ἐστὶν πᾶς ὁ γεγεννημένος ἐκ τοῦ πνεύματος

Since I wasn't given the gift of speaking in tongues (or interpreting them; any gifts I may have lie elsewhere), I'm still trying to figure out how to hear the sound of the רוּחַ, even if I can't tell where it comes from, or where it is going.

But I do know that Jesus's pun works in both Greek and Hebrew, interestingly enough.

That's curious. I guess that pun is no joke. - LOL

The word "gift" is typically an unfortunate descriptor. IMHO
Salvation is certainly not a free gift. Very costly, in fact.
And we don't possess the spiritual gifts, they possess us.

I cringe when I hear some one say, "That's not my gift."
But I understand why they would say that.

Teaching in the church on "spiritual gifts" (manifestations of the Spirit)
have been REALLY bad. IMO

I have been called to use manifestations that only occurred once.
The idea is to be open to anything the Spirit might want of me.

If God asks me to do something, I assume the needed manifestation
of the Spirit will be there. It's not about me.

1 Corinthians 12:11 NIV
All these are the work of one and the same Spirit,
and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

/