What is the initial evidence of the Baptism with the Holy Spirit?

[Godslittleservant]

water baptism is NOT for eternal life (salvation), but is an ordinance given us by Christ before He departed this earth.

Then answer me this. If the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ (water baptism)is not for the remission of sin and giving of the indwelling spirit as told in Acts 2:38 then what is its purpose surely it is not void of a purpose .Jesus did not say do this just for the heck of it it had to have a reason what did Jesus say its reason was? Maybe he answered this in Romans 6:3ff

 

[Wick Stick]

I conclude that any manifestation of the Holy Spirit could be the initial evidence.

I agree. For Paul, it was actually a healing - the restoration of his sight.

 

[Wick Stick]

Then answer me this. If the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ (water baptism)is not for the remission of sin and giving of the indwelling spirit as told in Acts 2:38 then what is its purpose surely it is not void of a purpose .Jesus did not say do this just for the heck of it it had to have a reason what did Jesus say its reason was? Maybe he answered this in Romans 6:3ff

Water Baptism IS for the remission of sinning.

But it's also an adoption ceremony. The Jews have baptized their proselytes since before the New Testament was written. They baptize in the name of Abraham - adopting the proselyte as a child of Abraham.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Water Baptism IS for the remission of sinning.

But it's also an adoption ceremony. The Jews have baptized their proselytes since before the New Testament was written. They baptize in the name of Abraham - adopting the proselyte as a child of Abraham.

Acts 22:24 And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things.
25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?
26 But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet.

Likewise the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ was it from Heaven or men

 

[Peterlag]

Then answer me this. If the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ (water baptism)is not for the remission of sin and giving of the indwelling spirit as told in Acts 2:38 then what is its purpose surely it is not void of a purpose .Jesus did not say do this just for the heck of it it had to have a reason what did Jesus say its reason was? Maybe he answered this in Romans 6:3ff

Here's the problem. The Bible does not say baptize in the name of Jesus Christ (oh and that means with water).

 

[Wick Stick]

Here's the problem. The Bible does not say baptize in the name of Jesus Christ (oh and that means with water).

Yeah it does...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Peterlag]

Yeah it does...

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

To be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is to be baptized in the spirit which is what you get. Water does nothing.

 

[Godslittleservant]

To be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is to be baptized in the spirit which is what you get. Water does nothing.

You are arguing against scripture my friend it is written for you to believe what it says ,it has proven it means what it says not us saying it ,it is recorded for all to see if you reject what is recorded that is your privilege but not advised

 

[rwb]

Yes I can show how to believe and baptism is the same you just refuse to see it. In Acts 19:1-5
Acts 19:1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples.
Acts 19:2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit."
Acts 19:3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism."
Acts 19:4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus."
Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Now lets pat close attention to what Paul is saying

Acts 19:2 He said to them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." He asked if they had gotten the holy spirit when they HAD BELIEVED How does the bible say you get the spirit Acts 2:38 it is through the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ as Paul is going to make clear They said no they had not heard the complete gospel therefore they did not know about receiving the spirit.

Acts 19:3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, "Into John's baptism." see Paul asked them if you had not heard then what were you baptized into? see baptism is where Paul new that they would have gotten the indwelling spirit in the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ but they told him they were baptized with Johns baptism and we know that it cannot give the spirit because at that time Christ had yet to go to the cross.

Acts 19:4 Paul said, "John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." See here is the proof Johns baptism was for the remission of sin as will be the baptism that Jesus will baptize with but it cannot give the indwelling spirit for Jesus has not gone to the cross it only points to Jesus completion of the cross and then the baptism that Jesus will baptize will give the indwelling spirit just as told in Acts 2:38

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. So Paul baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ so there sins could be remitted and they could receive the indwelling spirit. Just as we are told in Acts 2:38 here is scripture backing scripture and we must read what is recorded.

Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. Now that Paul has corrected their problem and has gotten them born again Per Romans 6:3ff Acts 2:38 Acts 19:1-5
He lays hand on them to give them the power to witness. Why/ He has just planted the new church in Ephesus and needs to go plant more churches so he gives them the power of witness to grow the church he just planted Mark 16:17-20 Acts 1:8

So see when Paul says they believed they had been baptized in this case it was not the correct baptism but Paul corrected it so to believe means to believe all that is taught including the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ just as it is recorded in Acts 21:38. That is where the complete gospel was preached for the first time following the cross and where God started adding to the church just as recorded not my words but the words God gave his Apostles to write so that I might believe.

Godslittleservant, you are not teaching harmony without contradiction of the Word of God. You are forcing disharmony and contradiction teaching that man must be baptized in water to be saved.

Salvation is God's gracious free gift to mankind who believe the Gospel. But mankind, being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1,5 Col 2:13) must be quickened (made spiritually alive) by the Holy Spirit to believe the Gospel. (Jo 6:63; Gal 6:8; 1 Cor 15:14; 2 Cor 3:6; 1 Pe 3:18) Man hears the Gospel and after hearing he/she is either eternally saved by believing, or they are still in unbelief. Before having the ability to believe a man must have faith. Faith to believe and be saved comes from the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5:22-23). Spiritually dead mankind does not have the fruit of faith to believe without the Spirit of Christ in them. The Spirit of Christ working together with His Gospel message give all who are ordained to eternal life (Acts 13:48) the fruit of faith. That makes it possible for man to understand their need of Christ to eternally save them, and he/she turns to Christ in repentance believing.

This is what happened in the book of Acts that you have not rightly understood.

In Acts 19 when Paul asks if they have received the Holy Spirit upon believing, he recognizes they have already received the fruit of faith from the Spirit, otherwise it makes no sense for him to say "since ye believed". Paul knows, and we learn this throughout his writings, that without the fruit of faith in them, they could not believe. But Paul also wants to know if they had received the same 'gift' that had been witnessed elsewhere. But they had no idea what Paul was talking about, being Gentiles of faith, they had never heard of being baptized in the Holy Spirit. The only baptism they knew of was that of John by water. Then Paul acknowledges that was good, because John's baptism by water was done for repentance of sins. They would not have been baptized in water unless they had heard the Gospel and received the fruit of faith from the Spirit in them, that they might then repent of their sins. Paul tells them about the baptism of the Holy Spirit that came after John's baptism by water. After laying hands on them the Holy Spirit gave them the gift of tongues, proving that when they believed the Gospel they were baptized in the Holy Spirit as well as having already been baptized in water.

Acts 2 is proof that the Gospel they had just heard Peter preach was believed "they were pricked in their heart, said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?" After hearing the Gospel they received the fruit of faith and believing they repented and received the gift of the Spirit in them of speaking in tongues. It does not say being baptized in water they believed and their sins were remitted. It says they were baptized in the Holy Spirit and as proof they received from the Spirit in them the gift of tongues.

This, like we find elsewhere in the Acts of the Apostles is written to be an example for us that eternal salvation, as we find throughout Scripture is by God's grace through faith, that whosoever believes the Gospel HAS been eternally saved. Once this profession of faith is made the new Christian submits to the ordinance of water baptism that not only points to baptism of the Holy Spirit by which we are saved, but it also shows that we are no longer of this world, we have been translated from the darkness and death of this world into the spiritual Kingdom life and light.

When you make eternal salvation dependent upon our being baptized in water, that is John's baptism, and without the fruit of faith that comes from the Holy Spirit within, water baptism has no power to eternally save anyone. By saying water baptism is needed for us to be saved, is denying that we are save by God's grace through faith, and that our eternal life is wholly dependent upon the gift of God alone. Rightly understood, water baptism serves its purpose, but arguing that man must be baptized in water to be saved, makes a mockery of our Lord and Savior who alone gives eternal life to all who believe in Him.

John 1:12-13 (KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[Godslittleservant]

Water baptism is a spiritual baptism for it is where God does his spiritual transforming work of changing us dead in sin to alive in Christ. Just as Acts 2:38 says and Paul explains in Romans 6:3ff Baptism is where we join Christ at the cross it is Gods gracious gift to us to be born again just as it is spelled out in Romans 6:3ff.. It is The baptism that John said Jesus would baptize with scripture makes it clear in Acts 19:1-5 Please read the bible for what it says and stop trying to make it say what your little itchy ears want it to say it is for your good to trust in its word and believe in the truth.

 

[Wick Stick]

To be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is to be baptized in the spirit which is what you get. Water does nothing.

Of course the water does nothing. It's a symbol.

 

[Peterlag]

Of course the water does nothing. It's a symbol.

It's a symbol of the Levitical Law. There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

 

[Peterlag]

You are arguing against scripture my friend it is written for you to believe what it says ,it has proven it means what it says not us saying it ,it is recorded for all to see if you reject what is recorded that is your privilege but not advised

There's no verse recorded saying that the Church once it got going ever mentions water or the need for it. Water baptism is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law. There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

 

[Wick Stick]

It's a symbol of the Levitical Law. There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

It's a symbol of death, birth, and adoption (re-birth).

Death is symbolized as the drowning of the old man. Birth is symbolized because babies are born when mommy's water breaks. And adoption, because being re-born means that you have a new parent.

Or as Jesus said, "You must be born again." Jesus' baptism is not the washings of the Levitical priesthood (which is indeed abrogated).

Water baptism did not pass away at Pentecost. To prove this, simply look to see whether the apostles continued baptizing in water after Pentecost. They did. In Acts 8, Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. In Acts 10, Cornelius and his household were baptized. And there are many more examples.

 

[Godslittleservant]

There's no verse recorded saying that the Church once it got going ever mentions water or the need for it. Water baptism is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law. There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.

Yes the new testament is all about water baptism for it is where God placed the work of the cross. The new testament baptism is a new teaching that God put in place after the old covenant and created John the baptist just for the purpose of forerunner for the baptism into Christ.You can not miss that if you are truly searching for the truth of the word. It is for the remission of sin and was starting with the initial teaching starting with John and still is carried over in the completed plan through Christ just as God had planned from the begging of time.

In all the new testament conversions from Acts 2 when the completed gospel was preached form the first time until this day it was for the remission of sin and the giving of the indwelling spirit. The letters to the churches all talk about the baptism in Christ name. Romans 6:3ff, 1 Corinthians 1:13, Galatians 3:27, and Colossians 2:11-13 and others that does not come out and say it directly but hints toward it with other words. Baptism in water did not pass away with circumcision but replaced it. Baptism for the remission of sin was never a Levitical law but a new covenant law the law of Christ.

Your refusal to see what the biblical teaching of baptism is very questionable as to your witness.

 

[Peterlag]

Yes the new testament is all about water baptism for it is where God placed the work of the cross. The new testament baptism is a new teaching that God put in place after the old covenant and created John the baptist just for the purpose of forerunner for the baptism into Christ.You can not miss that if you are truly searching for the truth of the word. It is for the remission of sin and was starting with the initial teaching starting with John and still is carried over in the completed plan through Christ just as God had planned from the begging of time.

In all the new testament conversions from Acts 2 when the completed gospel was preached form the first time until this day it was for the remission of sin and the giving of the indwelling spirit. The letters to the churches all talk about the baptism in Christ name. Romans 6:3ff, 1 Corinthians 1:13, Galatians 3:27, and Colossians 2:11-13 and others that does not come out and say it directly but hints toward it with other words. Baptism in water did not pass away with circumcision but replaced it. Baptism for the remission of sin was never a Levitical law but a new covenant law the law of Christ.

Your refusal to see what the biblical teaching of baptism is very questionable as to your witness.

Baptism in Christ name is not water baptism. I don't know why you think they are the same. Water baptism was something done before the spirit of Christ was given. And then once the spirit of Christ became available we are baptized in the spirit. Not water. And Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not the "New Testament" since God did not put a paper in the Bible between Malachi and Matthew that says New Testament. Men did that... probably Catholics.

 

[Peterlag]

It's a symbol of death, birth, and adoption (re-birth).

Death is symbolized as the drowning of the old man. Birth is symbolized because babies are born when mommy's water breaks. And adoption, because being re-born means that you have a new parent.

Or as Jesus said, "You must be born again." Jesus' baptism is not the washings of the Levitical priesthood (which is indeed abrogated).

Water baptism did not pass away at Pentecost. To prove this, simply look to see whether the apostles continued baptizing in water after Pentecost. They did. In Acts 8, Philip baptized the Ethiopian eunuch. In Acts 10, Cornelius and his household were baptized. And there are many more examples.

Again, from the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards and Cornelius was not one of them. Verse 48 does not say they were baptized with water but rather in the name of the Lord.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Baptism in Christ name is not water baptism. I don't know why you think they are the same. Water baptism was something done before the spirit of Christ was given. And then once the spirit of Christ became available we are baptized in the spirit. Not water. And Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not the "New Testament" since God did not put a paper in the Bible between Malachi and Matthew that says New Testament. Men did that... probably Catholics.

Dear Peterlag,
Just a quick comment.

Water baptism in the name of Jesus is what should be performed AFTER Christ comes to an unbeliever and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Early Rain of the Spirit is not the baptism of the Spirit. Water baptism is a physical symbol which precedes the baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain) which is given later when Christ comes a second time to the believer (if they are one of the Elect).

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is synonymous with the Latter Rain of the Spirit.

James said this:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The "coming of the Lord" that James is referencing is when Christ "comes again" and gives the believer the Latter Rain. That is why James is telling them to be patient. They are waiting for the Lord to return with the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

After a person receives the Early Rain, they are called out from the world and will enter the church. In this unconverted spiritual condition, they must wait on the Lord to return with the Latter Rain and convert them. This concept is taught by the marriage analogy used in scripture. When a person receives the Early Rain, they become espoused to Christ. Christ then goes away to prepare a place for them. At the appointed time, Christ will return for His bride. If Christ finds the believer in a "chaste" condition (in faith), the marriage ceremony will take place. This is when the baptism of the Holy Spirit is given.

Paul is referencing the marriage analogy in this verse below:

Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The believers who are "waiting for him" are believers in the church who have only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. When Christ appears a second time, He will bring them salvation (conversion).

Paul's conversion experience is the pattern (type) whereby all the Elect will be saved. It starts with the Early Rain and ends with the Latter Rain. Have you ever studied it?

Joe

 

[St. SteVen]

Baptism in Christ name is not water baptism. I don't know why you think they are the same. Water baptism was something done before the spirit of Christ was given. And then once the spirit of Christ became available we are baptized in the spirit. Not water. And Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are not the "New Testament" since God did not put a paper in the Bible between Malachi and Matthew that says New Testament. Men did that... probably Catholics.

As I have said prior, I think the water baptism of the Ethiopian eunuch and the water baptism of the gentiles at the house of Cornelius disprove your theory. Both happen in the book of Acts, after the gospels and Pentecost.

Furthermore, you are assuming that other mentions of baptism do NOT mean water baptism. The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is usually accompanied with statements about receiving the Holy Spirit or the initial evidence of such. (tongues, prophecy, praising God)

Granted, this is not clear in Acts two thirty-eight. (see below) Are you claiming that the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is for the forgiveness of sins?

Acts 2:38 NIV
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

/ @Hillsage

 

[Godslittleservant]

Baptism in Christ name is not water baptism. I don't know why you think they are the same.

This is a very easy answer It is because like I keep saying the bible proves Acts 2:38 to be true look at Acts 10:47,48
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

It cannot be no more clear that the baptism in the name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38) in indeed in water. It is the one and the same Peter preached in Acts 2 when he through the spirits guidance preach the first complete Gospel of Christ. Paul also echoes the proof that it means what it says in Acts 19;1-5 please read what the bible says about the subject and believe it put trust in God's word he meant what he had recorded. We can argue against it all day long but it will not change what God has said on the matter.

Either you cannot read with understanding or you are simply rejecting what God has said it is clearly recorded.