What is the narrow gate?

[shturt678]

Thank you folks for caring!

I had always thought that one enters and goes through the narrow portal by a valid contrition + faith + how one applies the former in their lives?

Old Jack's ol' view

 

[truthquest]

Thank you for caring!

I searched the picture repeatedly and didn't see the claw - it's me as not that much into pictures + old age, however was seriously wondering if that person was suppose to be Judas?

Old rarely serious Jack

This is part of what is written on page 52 about the picture.
18 To those Christians in Thyatira, Jesus now speaks heartwarming words. They also encourage anointed Christians today: “And to him that conquers and observes my deeds down to the end I will give authority over the nations, and he shall shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels, the same as I have received from my Father.” (Revelation 2:26, 27) Indeed a wonderful privilege! This authority that anointed conquerors receive at their resurrection is a sharing with Jesus in wielding the “iron rod” of destruction against the rebellious nations at Armageddon. At best, the nuclear firepower of those nations will sputter like a wet firecracker when Christ dashes his enemies to pieces as he would vessels of clay.—Psalm 2:8, 9; Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-13, 15.

 

[kjw47]

Thank you folks for caring!

I had always thought that one enters and goes through the narrow portal by a valid contrition + faith + how one applies the former in their lives?

Old Jack's ol' view

Jesus has teachers on earth--Hebrews 13:17--- teaches one must be submissive to them. Only through these does the HS reveal truths at the proper time--including these truths-Daniel 12:4)--- They( teachers) are easily spotted by learning all of Jesus' truths and applying them daily. The only teachers I have ever listened to that teach Jesus' truths are the JW teachers.

This is part of what is written on page 52 about the picture.
18 To those Christians in Thyatira, Jesus now speaks heartwarming words. They also encourage anointed Christians today: “And to him that conquers and observes my deeds down to the end I will give authority over the nations, and he shall shepherd the people with an iron rod so that they will be broken to pieces like clay vessels, the same as I have received from my Father.” (Revelation 2:26, 27) Indeed a wonderful privilege! This authority that anointed conquerors receive at their resurrection is a sharing with Jesus in wielding the “iron rod” of destruction against the rebellious nations at Armageddon. At best, the nuclear firepower of those nations will sputter like a wet firecracker when Christ dashes his enemies to pieces as he would vessels of clay.—Psalm 2:8, 9; Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-13, 15.

Yes I know I read it--I saw nothing about the claw--I will inquire of an elder when I see them.

 

[shturt678]

Jesus has teachers on earth--Hebrews 13:17--- teaches one must be submissive to them. Only through these does the HS reveal truths at the proper time--including these truths-Daniel 12:4)--- They( teachers) are easily spotted by learning all of Jesus' truths and applying them daily. The only teachers I have ever listened to that teach Jesus' truths are the JW teachers.

Yes I know I read it--I saw nothing about the claw--I will inquire of an elder when I see them.

Thank you for your response again!

The Jews, ie, the Pharisees, had their teachers also and ending in murdering Jesus, so I've heard (Acts2:23)? We don't want to recrucify Jesus again do we?

Why are there so many diverse "Professions of Faith" where only one "Profession" is valid with so many teachers? Maybe we better dig in indvidually, ie, our forever abode could depend upon it.

Old Jack

 

[kjw47]

Thank you for your response again!

The Jews, ie, the Pharisees, had their teachers also and ending in murdering Jesus, so I've heard (Acts2:23)? We don't want to recrucify Jesus again do we?

Why are there so many diverse "Professions of Faith" where only one "Profession" is valid with so many teachers? Maybe we better dig in indvidually, ie, our forever abode could depend upon it.

Old Jack

It does depend on learning from the teachers Jesus is with. It also depends on knowing( Father) and Jesus to get eternal life( John 17:1-6_ verse 6 = YHWH(Jehovah) ---I pray all of you know him as well as know Jesus.

 

[truthquest]

Does it really matter what the narrow gate was? Jesus said with men it is impossible. With God, all things are possible. The only way through the gate is by way of what God did/does rather than by what man can do. God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. Those who are too proud to let go of their own righteousness and take the free gift of righteousness from God (Rom.5:18,19) given by way of one man's obedience (Jesus), will be resisted.
Many JW's are in the exercise of trying to deserve what they call "undeserved kindness". Try getting one to admit that, though. But unfortunately they are not the only ones engaged in earning the free gift by other means than mere faith.

By the way, when Jesus died, the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom. This indicated that the way to life (the free gift of life) was made available to all. Jesus didn't call Himself the gate. He called Himself the Way. Who says the narrow gate wasn't just pre Calvary? Why would we not think that Jesus came to solve and resolve the issue between man and God?

As for the so called teachers of Jesus, they are not the way. Acts 4:12 states that it is Jesus Himself that gives life. He is the mediator between God and man. There is no man under Adam that is the mediator. Not since Moses. As for the picture above, it is most disturbing. I wonder what the explanation is?

I think it does matter when a manmade organization is viewed as the "narrow gate", the only way to Jesus and to the Father. Think about the dynamics of that and the power given to a manmade organization making that claim. It's like taking a detour to get to Jesus and the Father. And even worse, the JW's are expected to be in submission to every teaching handed down that is constantly changing and called "new light". And if they dare question this, they risk being disfellowshipped and then shunned even by their family members who are JW's. They are then viewed as apostates. This is serious business and has ruined many lives and caused much mental and emotional pain.

 

[Floyd]

Does it really matter what the narrow gate was? Jesus said with men it is impossible. With God, all things are possible. The only way through the gate is by way of what God did/does rather than by what man can do. God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. Those who are too proud to let go of their own righteousness and take the free gift of righteousness from God (Rom.5:18,19) given by way of one man's obedience (Jesus), will be resisted.
Many JW's are in the exercise of trying to deserve what they call "undeserved kindness". Try getting one to admit that, though. But unfortunately they are not the only ones engaged in earning the free gift by other means than mere faith.

By the way, when Jesus died, the veil of the temple was torn from top to bottom. This indicated that the way to life (the free gift of life) was made available to all. Jesus didn't call Himself the gate. He called Himself the Way. Who says the narrow gate wasn't just pre Calvary? Why would we not think that Jesus came to solve and resolve the issue between man and God?

As for the so called teachers of Jesus, they are not the way. Acts 4:12 states that it is Jesus Himself that gives life. He is the mediator between God and man. There is no man under Adam that is the mediator. Not since Moses. As for the picture above, it is most disturbing. I wonder what the explanation is?

Right on williemac, well said; Floyd.


JW,s aren't trying to be deserving of something undeserved--you are mistaken.
The renting of the veil( banner) was to signify the cutting off of Israel as Gods chosen.


Not so! that is corrupt JW teaching!
The Veil was rent from top to bottom by Almighty God to signify that He was from that time onwards accessible to His people Israel. That condition was de-facto until Acts28:25-28; when our Lord's prayer for forgiveness for Israel came to an end (temporarily) ; because they rejected Paul's message of Christ's Messiah- ship for them, and they became "Lo-Ammi" (see Hos.1-2).
At that point, Paul turned to the Gentiles, with the statement" they will hear".
Hear what?
That Christ is the Incarnate One; the second person of the Godhead; in Whom is eternal life and "sonship" for all who will accept Him as the "second Adam"; who saved all who will take Him at His Word!
This means that all JWs are doomed to destruction; as they will not accept His Deity; therefore His salvation!
Many JWs have left my door, quivering with anger or fear or both; to get to their "Kingdom Hall" for reassuring surgery with their "Elders" in a debriefing!!
The records kept by JWs on every street they canvas is detailed.
They even have "big guns" who will visit the "troublespots" to try to browbeat people on their own doorstep.
I have had occasion to need to be at the point of calling the Police, such has been the aggression of the JW doorstep callers!
Floyd.



God's Gentiles Blessing


[SIZE=18pt]There is much confused thinking and teaching on the subject of the world’s Jews and Gentiles. If people would study the Bible as the only authority as to knowing the answers to such questions; there would not be so much confusion; but; as Satan is the “prince of this world”, and “god of this world” according to statements by both Jesus and Apostle Paul: Jn. 12:31, 14:30, 16:11, Eph. 2:2 and 2Cor. 4:4; and as many people will not refer to Scripture only, the confusion will continue to Satan’s benefit till the end of this Age![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]An old fallacy that is rearing its head again in the world’s teachings, is that Satan was “bound at the cross of Calvary”! If a person accepts that as fact, their Bible study must start at Rev. 20, where the statement is made that Satan is bound! This then throws out of sequence all their subsequent study, as they hang on to that false idea; and leaves them living now in the Millennial; which makes all other study difficult if not impossible to reconcile![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]When confronted with this statement recently, the writer pointed out that Jesus made His comments on Satan prior to His [/SIZE][SIZE=18pt] Ascension, but Paul’s was 27 and 31 years after the Ascension; but he refused to budge from his position! This attitude is very common in the world, and is clearly driven and maintained by Satan, and will be until the “age of the Gentiles is complete” Rom. 11:25.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The reason for mentioning the above encounter is to illustrate the mass of misunderstanding and wrong teaching in the world. When there is a sincere and prayerful desire to know truth from Scripture, it will be given by the Holy Spirit![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Turning now to the subject of this paper, definition of Jew and Gentile is needed.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]All Jews are descendants of Abraham and Sarah, and their miracle son Isaac. The only exceptions to that rule are genuine Proselytes. Gentiles are all other people of the world in all nations. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The first ref. in Scripture to Gentile blessing is Gen. 22:18: “And in thy seed shall all nations of the world be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice”. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]It needs to be emphasized here that Abraham’s obedience was the key to the Gentile future blessing! Obedience, or the lack of it, was to be the success or failure of Israel’s future progress with Jehovah (God in Covenant relationship with Israel Gen. 13:17; 17:4 17:11 and 17:13).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]This principle of obedience, which was a condition stipulated by Jehovah, had to be honored by Israel for all the blessings promised to be delivered by Jehovah![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]At the Exodus, Israel was elevated to “My first born son” by Jehovah Ex. 4:22, and the “oracles” of God entrusted to them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]This entailed the responsibility to witness to the tribes adjacent to them of the “One true God”; not engaging in sexual relations with their women; behaving in a way which honored their Jehovah; and not adopting or engaging the pagan gods of those people and tribes. The details of these stipulations by God were recorded in Deuteronomy, including Israel’s promises to adhere to them.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]In return for their faithful adherence to their promise; Jehovah promised blessings in the enterprise, of protection, growth, success in battle etc.; all of which would be seen by the nations surrounding them in the “promised land”! That would fill them with awe, and make them want to know “the God of the Jews”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]If Israel did not do the right things by God, and their promises to Him, He spelt out what would be the result in Deut. 28 to 32; which has been, and still is partially their condition today![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]So; now we see that Israel has been relieved of their special place as God’s special representative on Earth due to their infidelity to their Jehovah God! [/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]See: [/SIZE][SIZE=18pt]The position of the Jews in Scripture, Old and New Testaments.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Scribes and Pharisees[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]A Kingdom of Priest unto God [/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Jehovah's dealings with Israel [/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]What then has happened to the “Oracles” of God in the world? What is the position regarding God’s witness to all mankind?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]When Jesus was denounced by the Jewish Sanhedrin, and the people in front of Pilate; sent to the Roman cross for execution; He on the cross, prior to giving up His spirit of life to the Father, said; “Father, forgive them, they know not what they do”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]At His resurrection He stated to His disciples that at Pentecost they would receive the “Holy Spirit” to enable them in their evangelistic work; and that they would do great things in His Name among His people “and those that thou hast given me”, John 17:20 and 24,[/SIZE] which referred to both Jews and Gentiles; but the Jews were first in order (priority), which was confirmed by Paul and all the apostles. Paul always during his evangelical journeys in Acts, visited the local Synagogue first to preach the good news of Christ’s Sacrifice for the Jews; (this was mandated by the Holy Spirit, who was directing Paul’s efforts)!
[SIZE=18pt]All the Synagogue’s rejected Paul’s efforts, the last being Rome, and as one by one they rejected and excluded him, he then preached in all areas where he would be heard, including public places and private homes![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]After the rejection by the Rome Synagogue, Paul then made the profound statement in Acts 28:25-28; that he would from then onward “turn to the Gentiles, and they will hear”![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]He had made clear to King Agrippa, that the Risen Christ via the Holy Spirit was instructing him in all his actions; so we know that all that Paul said were the Words of Christ Jesus, as His mouthpiece![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Since that time at the end of the Acts; the prayer of our Lord on the cross for the Jewish people ran out; and they were “set to one side”, “Lo-Ammi”, (Hos. 1 and 2); which will be the case until they are re-adopted to Ammi; probably in the near future, looking at the world political situations, especially the Middle East![/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The statement by Paul at Acts 28:28, has changed the priority of God’s dealings in the world, and the Gentiles became first priority with the Jews second; which is the meaning of the Paul’s statement and teaching of the “mystery” of Rom. 11:25, Eph. 3:3.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]This transition has been misused and misunderstood by many groups, starting with the “church fathers” see: [/SIZE][SIZE=18pt]Replacement Theology[/SIZE] [SIZE=18pt]This has led to much wrong teaching and wrong attitude towards the Jews, which will not be corrected until the “sheep and goat judgement” of Matt. 25:31-46, see: [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]Sheep and Goat Judgementhttp://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/The Sheep and Goat Judgement.htm[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]Prior to that, this “Age” of the Gentiles must be completed, Romans 11:25.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]When that “completion” is de-facto, the Gentile Age gives way to “the Day of the Lord”, Rev. 1:10; (the Day of Jehovah Zebaoth) (God of all the World’s peoples) which is very decisive for both Jews and Gentiles.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=18pt]The Anti-Christ will have his way with both Jews and Gentiles; the Jews experiencing “Jacob’s Trouble”: see [/SIZE][SIZE=16pt]Jacob's Troublehttp://www.revelationsmessage.co.uk/Jacobs Trouble.htm[/SIZE] [SIZE=18pt]and the Gentiles the Wrath of God for their treatment of the Jews and their rejection of Christ Jesus![/SIZE]

[SIZE=18pt]It was shown above that Abraham’s blessing was because he obeyed God. Israel’s blessing is in abeyance because they disobeyed God![/SIZE] Our blessing is still on offer because Christ Jesus obeyed His Father ; which allows all the world's peoples to be blessed; and saved from destruction by obedience to the “call” of God in Christ Jesus!
[SIZE=18pt]Summary: at present the offer of God of the Salvation of Christ is still open. This means that all people, both Jew and Gentile can be saved from destruction; but they must exercise their God given free-will to accept that great Salvation![/SIZE]

 

[williemac]

The terms 'Jew' and 'gentile' are fleshly terms. They identify the physical lineage of those under these labels. Gentiles in the physical sense are simply anyone who is not a physical Jew.
However, in the New Jerusalem, all peoples are given the exact same label. He who is a Jew is one inwardly. All who are of faith are considered to be Abraham's seed and therefore a Jew in the spiritual sense. This is a spiritual seed, not a physical one.

It might also be noted that the first disciples of Jesus, including the 120 in the upper room on the day of Pentecost, were physical Jews. The early church did not understand that the gospel was open to all the world.

It is a mistake to add works to the gospel of salvation by faith. The appropriate treatment of the physical Jew is not a requirement for salvation. We are commanded to love all people. This includes Jews and gentiles alike. But this is not what saves us. Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God. Among all the different traditions and doctrines within the world wide church of Jesus, the worst of the bunch and the most damaging to the gospel is the adding of works to faith, for salvation or in other words, for justification.

Therefore the new testament version of the narrow gate would be salvation by grace, through faith. This is because of the obedience of One Man, the righteousness of One Man (Rom.5:15-19), and the sacrifice of the same Man (Rom.5;10).

God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. The main obstacle that hinders grace is the temptations that come about that would give a man cause for boasting. The narrow gate is easily entered into by way of humility, in recognizing we are getting something that we did not and do not deserve. If the treatment of the physical Jew merits salvation, then it would constitute a cause for boasting. Faith boasts in God, in His glory, mercy, and grace, and in the work of One Man. It is said to be the victory that overcomes the world ( 1John 5:4).

 

[truthquest]

Jesus has teachers on earth--Hebrews 13:17--- teaches one must be submissive to them. Only through these does the HS reveal truths at the proper time--including these truths-Daniel 12:4)--- They( teachers) are easily spotted by learning all of Jesus' truths and applying them daily. The only teachers I have ever listened to that teach Jesus' truths are the JW teachers.

Yes I know I read it--I saw nothing about the claw--I will inquire of an elder when I see them.

You're not going to find an explanation for the claw in the Revelation book. And if you inquire of an elder about it, you will likely be told that this is a rumor and that you should not be part of spreading that rumor. One JW dared to question these pictures and he was disfellowshipped for it, although he is no doubt not the only one this happened to.

The view and subsequent action of the Society toward an individual who contradicts their statement
that subliminal images do NOT exist in Watch Tower publications:
"The basis of the disfellowshipping action, as explained to me, was that I had asserted both to the
brothers in the committee, to my brother and sister-in-law, and to an editor of Time magazine that
secondary or 'subliminal' images existed in several illustrations appearing in Watchtower Society
publications and upon careful examination it could be seen that these images, including various
symbols, were occultic in nature. The committee had pointed out that the Watchtower magazine
had carried an article in 1984 in which a statement was made that these images did not exist.
The committee also said they had telephoned a representative of the Society who told them that
the statement in the magazine was their latest word on the subject.
"The committee then claimed that by saying that these secondary images did indeed exist, I had
rejected the spiritual and congregational authority of the Watchtower Society and its Governing
Body. I was therefore, they claimed, guilty of apostasy in the Biblical sense of the word. My wife,
though she had no part in divulging information about the pictures and opposed my doing so, said
that she conscientiously could not state that these secondary images did not exist since she
could clearly see several of them. She also stated that, though she thought my course in attempting
to bear witness concerning these pictures was unwise, she honestly could not see that it constituted
apostasy. For this, she was also charged with rejecting congregational authority and also found
guilty of apostasy."
The above is an extract from Darek Barefoot's letter of appeal to the BOE of the Monument Valley
Congregation in Colorado. The letter is dated 19 June 1990.

 

[kjw47]

You're not going to find an explanation for the claw in the Revelation book. And if you inquire of an elder about it, you will likely be told that this is a rumor and that you should not be part of spreading that rumor. One JW dared to question these pictures and he was disfellowshipped for it, although he is no doubt not the only one this happened to.

The view and subsequent action of the Society toward an individual who contradicts their statement
that subliminal images do NOT exist in Watch Tower publications:
"The basis of the disfellowshipping action, as explained to me, was that I had asserted both to the
brothers in the committee, to my brother and sister-in-law, and to an editor of Time magazine that
secondary or 'subliminal' images existed in several illustrations appearing in Watchtower Society
publications and upon careful examination it could be seen that these images, including various
symbols, were occultic in nature. The committee had pointed out that the Watchtower magazine
had carried an article in 1984 in which a statement was made that these images did not exist.
The committee also said they had telephoned a representative of the Society who told them that
the statement in the magazine was their latest word on the subject.
"The committee then claimed that by saying that these secondary images did indeed exist, I had
rejected the spiritual and congregational authority of the Watchtower Society and its Governing
Body. I was therefore, they claimed, guilty of apostasy in the Biblical sense of the word. My wife,
though she had no part in divulging information about the pictures and opposed my doing so, said
that she conscientiously could not state that these secondary images did not exist since she
could clearly see several of them. She also stated that, though she thought my course in attempting
to bear witness concerning these pictures was unwise, she honestly could not see that it constituted
apostasy. For this, she was also charged with rejecting congregational authority and also found
guilty of apostasy."
The above is an extract from Darek Barefoot's letter of appeal to the BOE of the Monument Valley
Congregation in Colorado. The letter is dated 19 June 1990.

I am having a very hard time believing these events occurred. The claw is there for a good reason. The elders obviously scripturally corrected her thinking on something other than a picture. And she rejected correction-- If one rejects correction--I guess they stand in opposition to Gods will. And upon that event--then she would start saying things against the elders and the whole religion( many of them do)--and that surely would make one an apostate in Gods view of things.

 

[truthquest]

The events did happen. For what possible good reason do you think the claw is there? There is no good reason. But at least you see it. Darek Barefoot said in his own words, "The committee then claimed that by saying that these secondary images did indeed exist, I had rejected the spiritual and congregational authority of the Watchtower Society and its Governing Body." The committee had pointed out that the Watchtower magazine had carried an article in 1984 in which a statement was made that these images did not exist. The committee also said they had telephoned a representative of the Society who told them that the statement in the magazine was their latest word on the subject.
You do not question the Governing Body. If you do, you risk being disfellowshipped and Darek Barefoot and his wife was disfellowshipped for questioning these pictures.

I did find this article where the Watchtower Society denied that there were these kinds of pictures in their publications.
w84 9/1 20-3 Would You Spread a Rumor? (excerpt)
"Even the Watchtower Society’s publications have been the subject of rumors—for example, that one of the artists had secretly been introducing pictures of demons into the illustrations, was subsequently found out and disfellowshiped!
Did you share in spreading any such stories? If so, you were—perhaps unwittingly—spreading an untruth, since they were all false. Certainly, the rumor concerning the Society’s publications was harmful, as well as slanderous to the zealous Christians who work long hours producing artwork to make the magazines, brochures and books so attractive. This was as ridiculous as it would be to say that God, in creating celestial bodies, deliberately formed the appearance of a ‘man in the moon.’"

These images had been reported to the Watchtower Society at least since the early 80's. This may be the article referred to in David Barefoot's letter of appeal. "The committee had pointed out that the Watchtower magazine had carried an article in 1984 in which a statement was made that these images did not exist."

 

[Purity]

Are there any JW's here present in this forum?

If so, would any be interested in discussing their beliefs?

Thanks
Purity

 

[williemac]

Are there any JW's here present in this forum?

If so, would any be interested in discussing their beliefs?

Thanks
Purity

the author of post#190. this person has been doing exactly that for some time here. knock yourself out.

 

[nothead]

The terms 'Jew' and 'gentile' are fleshly terms. They identify the physical lineage of those under these labels. Gentiles in the physical sense are simply anyone who is not a physical Jew.
However, in the New Jerusalem, all peoples are given the exact same label. He who is a Jew is one inwardly. All who are of faith are considered to be Abraham's seed and therefore a Jew in the spiritual sense. This is a spiritual seed, not a physical one.

It might also be noted that the first disciples of Jesus, including the 120 in the upper room on the day of Pentecost, were physical Jews. The early church did not understand that the gospel was open to all the world.

It is a mistake to add works to the gospel of salvation by faith. The appropriate treatment of the physical Jew is not a requirement for salvation. We are commanded to love all people. This includes Jews and gentiles alike. But this is not what saves us. Therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God. Among all the different traditions and doctrines within the world wide church of Jesus, the worst of the bunch and the most damaging to the gospel is the adding of works to faith, for salvation or in other words, for justification.

Therefore the new testament version of the narrow gate would be salvation by grace, through faith. This is because of the obedience of One Man, the righteousness of One Man (Rom.5:15-19), and the sacrifice of the same Man (Rom.5;10).

God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. The main obstacle that hinders grace is the temptations that come about that would give a man cause for boasting. The narrow gate is easily entered into by way of humility, in recognizing we are getting something that we did not and do not deserve. If the treatment of the physical Jew merits salvation, then it would constitute a cause for boasting. Faith boasts in God, in His glory, mercy, and grace, and in the work of One Man. It is said to be the victory that overcomes the world ( 1John 5:4).

You have demonstrated a revulsion of WORKS but you did not come to my thread which states WORKS OF FAITH are not included in Paul's diatribe against Works as opposed to the faith that PRECEDES God's works.

"Works" for Paul was the independent doing of the multifarious minor laws and the unattended Major Laws having no connection to God's Holy Spirit enacting and impulsing our own...

...I have made a good case for this, and deem your theology 101, babyish, and too basic to apply to any but the most milk suckers.

It is modern mainstream lukewarm muck, and I am being nice in my description. The thing about Works, even FAITH Works is no man can know how many and what quality of are required for heaven.

This being true, yet FAITH means God looks to our attitude first, but he who is not willing to act right here, right now will not be deemed of right attitude. FAITH means holistic faith. Holy Spirit faith.

And Faith resulting in Works of Faith. I am not saying that I am faithful and you are not. I am saying that FAITH biblically means we are willing to act in the here and now as a result of obedience which is part of faith. PISTEUOW is holistic, mystical and revelatory. It is NOT just a mental affirmation of three or four mental premises.

 

[Floyd]

Are there any JW's here present in this forum?

If so, would any be interested in discussing their beliefs?

Thanks
Purity

I thought you were one of those JW people Purity; even though you deny it!?
They and you seem to believe the same things; ie
1) Do not accept the Deity of Christ Jesus.
2) Do not acknowledge the future of Israel.
3) Misconstrue Scripture for false teaching.
4) Access eternal life by "works".
5)Have oppressive leadership.
6)Deny the authority of Scripture.
7) Misuse Scripture in the same way as Satan.
8) Have no fear of The Holy Spirit, The Comforter, now operating on earth.
If you are not one of them Purity; you have shown remarkable similarity to them; and many here observing your past post performance find it hard to see the difference; especially as you refused repeatedly to say what your Grouping is?
Floyd.

 

[kjw47]

Are there any JW's here present in this forum?

If so, would any be interested in discussing their beliefs?

Thanks
Purity

I will be happy to discuss matters with you Purity.

I thought you were one of those JW people Purity; even though you deny it!?
They and you seem to believe the same things; ie
1) Do not accept the Deity of Christ Jesus.
2) Do not acknowledge the future of Israel.
3) Misconstrue Scripture for false teaching.
4) Access eternal life by "works".
5)Have oppressive leadership.
6)Deny the authority of Scripture.
7) Misuse Scripture in the same way as Satan.
8) Have no fear of The Holy Spirit, The Comforter, now operating on earth.
If you are not one of them Purity; you have shown remarkable similarity to them; and many here observing your past post performance find it hard to see the difference; especially as you refused repeatedly to say what your Grouping is?
Floyd.

6--- every JW on earth lives daily by the authority of scripture. Every JW on earth can use trinity translations to expose false trinity teachings--and history and languages have already proven trinity translation errors that contradict Jesus.
Whats oppressive about JW leaders--because they teach us not to sin or warn us of the table of demons prevelant in others every day lives and activities?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

I will be happy to discuss matters with you Purity.

6--- every JW on earth lives daily by the authority of scripture. Every JW on earth can use trinity translations to expose false trinity teachings--and history and languages have already proven trinity translation errors that contradict Jesus.
Whats oppressive about JW leaders--because they teach us not to sin or warn us of the table of demons prevelant in others every day lives and activities?

Want a long list of errors you need only to study your own organization

But you focus on the few mistakes by the trinitarians

Because you have been brainwashed to do so

It is part of the tactics of your cult

And you are not smart enough to figure it out.

The smart ones left years ago

 

[StanJ]

Jesus.

John 10:7

 

[kjw47]

Want a long list of errors you need only to study your own organization

But you focus on the few mistakes by the trinitarians

Because you have been brainwashed to do so

It is part of the tactics of your cult

And you are not smart enough to figure it out.

The smart ones left years ago

I see my teachers correct their mistakes--proving truth is what they really seek. and the light also gets brighter to fulfill this truth-Daniel 12:4)
What is a cult? 32,999 disunified mass of confusion trinity based religionssssssssss- or a unified in love and peace worldwide religion? How many religion(s) were Gods chosen in the ot--one or32,999?--same today--one religion, one truth, one faith, one God. So the same truth found in the ot--is truth today as well--99% false religions on earth.( Babylon the great)

 

[Purity]

I thought you were one of those JW people Purity; even though you deny it!?
They and you seem to believe the same things; ie
1) Do not accept the Deity of Christ Jesus.

I do not believe in a pre-existant Jesus and I believe the Deity and fullness thereof has been placed (given) to the Son as a reward for his obedience.

2) Do not acknowledge the future of Israel.

Salvation is of the Jews - the future restoration of natural Jewry is integral to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

3) Misconstrue Scripture for false teaching.

No, that is what the creeds did Floyd - this will be revealed to you God willing upon the Masters return.

4) Access eternal life by "works".

Faith without works is dead faith you should understand Pauls argument surely!

5)Have oppressive leadership.

Yes this can be a concern Floyd.

6)Deny the authority of Scripture.

In what way?

7) Misuse Scripture in the same way as Satan.

Subjective - I could say the same of you or a JW!

8) Have no fear of The Holy Spirit, The Comforter, now operating on earth.

I doubt you even understand the true nature of the comforter to even fear it!

If you are not one of them Purity; you have shown remarkable similarity to them; and many here observing your past post performance find it hard to see the difference; especially as you refused repeatedly to say what your Grouping is?
Floyd.

My grouping is founded upon the true and pure Gospel established by Yahweh; preached to Abraham; revealed in the Lord Jesus Christ and taught by his apostles. You should fear Floyd as you and others have not been able to overcome its strength.

Purity

will be happy to discuss matters with you Purity.

Did you want to start a new thread?

the author of post#190. this person has been doing exactly that for some time here. knock yourself out.

Some years ago I converted a JW to the true Gospel - I find there approach to the Scripture's grants them an advantage over those who side with Constantine