What is the narrow gate?

[Arnie Manitoba]

I see my teachers correct their mistakes--proving truth is what they really seek. and the light also gets brighter to fulfill this truth-Daniel 12:4)
What is a cult? 32,999 disunified mass of confusion trinity based religionssssssssss- or a unified in love and peace worldwide religion? How many religion(s) were Gods chosen in the ot--one or32,999?--same today--one religion, one truth, one faith, one God. So the same truth found in the ot--is truth today as well--99% false religions on earth.( Babylon the great)

You are correct that the JW`s have had to correct their obvious blatant lies many times in order to keep control of their brainwashed peasants

There is no denomination who has made as many false predictions and prophecies as the JW`s

There is not , nor ever has been 32,999 trinitarian religions , that is something you made up.

And for the JW`s to suggest there was no salvation until the puppet master Charles Russell came along in the 1800`s is the biggest crock of bull ever spoken

Only an idiot could believe the things that charlatan said .

Statistics show there are still 14 million who continue to be suckered by the dead Russel and the dead lawyer Rutherford.

Who have they appointed to run your kingdom today

 

[nothead]

You are correct that the JW`s have had to correct their obvious blatant lies many times in order to keep control of their brainwashed peasants

There is no denomination who has made as many false predictions and prophecies as the JW`s

There is not , nor ever has been 32,999 trinitarian religions , that is something you made up.

And for the JW`s to suggest there was no salvation until the puppet master Charles Russell came along in the 1800`s is the biggest crock of bull ever spoken

Only an idiot could believe the things that charlatan said .

Statistics show there are still 14 million who continue to be suckered by the dead Russel and the dead lawyer Rutherford.

Who have they appointed to run your kingdom today

I have spoken with JW's who readily acknowledge both end of world prophesies were false. And mistakes made by their leaders.

Some denoms won't do it ever. Some churches and leaders I have known also. RCC never admits major mistakes. This would oppose their inerrancy.

 

[Floyd]

You are correct that the JW`s have had to correct their obvious blatant lies many times in order to keep control of their brainwashed peasants

There is no denomination who has made as many false predictions and prophecies as the JW`s

There is not , nor ever has been 32,999 trinitarian religions , that is something you made up.

And for the JW`s to suggest there was no salvation until the puppet master Charles Russell came along in the 1800`s is the biggest crock of bull ever spoken

Only an idiot could believe the things that charlatan said .

Statistics show there are still 14 million who continue to be suckered by the dead Russel and the dead lawyer Rutherford.

Who have they appointed to run your kingdom today

I think Arnie that JWs must all be low mentalities; as they swallow so easily the changing propaganda !
They also seem to be emotionally needful; probably because of rejection in their young years.
To stand alone with Scripture, and rely on it alone, and not their hierarchy of human support, is anathema to them.
Their controllers; like the Roman Church; want as many "converts" as possible, to fill their coffers!
The upper echelons' live a pretty exotic life style; which need cash!
Floyd.

 

[Purity]

I think Arnie that JWs must all be low mentalities; as they swallow so easily the changing propaganda !
They also seem to be emotionally needful; probably because of rejection in their young years.
To stand alone with Scripture, and rely on it alone, and not their hierarchy of human support, is anathema to them.
Their controllers; like the Roman Church; want as many "converts" as possible, to fill their coffers!
The upper echelons' live a pretty exotic life style; which need cash!
Floyd.

I get what you are saying here Floyd but have seen the paid ministries around the earth? they leave the JW's in a wake of tax free money and assets. You are barking up the wrong tree here mate!

If you are going to go after a JW's - do it with integrity by opening the Bible.

 

[Floyd]

I get what you are saying here Floyd but have seen the paid ministries around the earth? they leave the JW's in a wake of tax free money and assets. You are barking up the wrong tree here mate!

If you are going to go after a JW's - do it with integrity by opening the Bible.

I don't " go after JWs". Purity; I try to go after falsehood; whether in myself, but in particular the "controllers" in the world; who, always have vested interest in their activities in this "Age time".
I agree with your comments on other cash cows in "religion", in particular in USA.
However; the JWs are so far out as regards our Lord's Truth; and confuse so many people with their heretic interpretations, that they raise my ire, and not just me, but all who love the Lord in truth!
As regards yourself; I have watched your lucid arguments re. our Lord' Deity, which in itself is painful to watch; especially from a mind which could do so much good, if it was correctly focussed.
I also cannot understand why you so easily condemn yourself, by defence of Satan.
Those two points put all your protestations to naught!
Floyd.

 

[Purity]

I don't " go after JWs". Purity; I try to go after falsehood; whether in myself, but in particular the "controllers" in the world; who, always have vested interest in their activities in this "Age time".
I agree with your comments on other cash cows in "religion", in particular in USA.
However; the JWs are so far out as regards our Lord's Truth; and confuse so many people with their heretic interpretations, that they raise my ire, and not just me, but all who love the Lord in truth!
As regards yourself; I have watched your lucid arguments re. our Lord' Deity, which in itself is painful to watch; especially from a mind which could do so much good, if it was correctly focussed.
I also cannot understand why you so easily condemn yourself, by defence of Satan.
Those two points put all your protestations to naught!
Floyd.

The arguments have been rooted and grounded upon Scripture and not once have I used Nicene terminology, or any other philosophical expression to define the truth concerning the headship of Christ.

Its everywhere should you wish to plainly read.

Imagine for a moment not having that brain of yours filled up with Trinitarian dogma's - how would you interpret the following passages?

What do we arrive in light of the following verses?

 Acts 13:33, “‘that this promise God has fulfilled to us, their children, by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second psalm, ‘You are my Son; today I have fathered you.””
 Hebrews 1:5, “For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my son! Today I have fathered you’? And in another place he says, ‘I will be his father and he will be my son.’”
 Hebrews 5:5, “So also Christ did not glorify himself in becoming high priest, but the one who glorified him was God, who said to him, ‘You are my Son! Today I have fathered you’”

The word for “fathered” in the two quotations from Hebrews is the Greek gennaō. It occurs 97 times in the NT, always refers to the act of birth, and signifies the literal commencement of life.

Scripture therefore affirms that Jesus’ existence had a beginning and that he was made just like other human beings in every possible way:

 Galatians 4:4, “But when the appropriate time had come, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law“
 Hebrews 2:17, “Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people.

Note that Jesus had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, which is how he can make atonement for us. The saving power of his sacrifice is predicated upon his humanity NOT deity!

Its so simple only you can confound its truth.

P.

 

[nothead]

I don't " go after JWs". Purity; I try to go after falsehood; whether in myself, but in particular the "controllers" in the world; who, always have vested interest in their activities in this "Age time".
I agree with your comments on other cash cows in "religion", in particular in USA.
However; the JWs are so far out as regards our Lord's Truth; and confuse so many people with their heretic interpretations, that they raise my ire, and not just me, but all who love the Lord in truth!
As regards yourself; I have watched your lucid arguments re. our Lord' Deity, which in itself is painful to watch; especially from a mind which could do so much good, if it was correctly focussed.
I also cannot understand why you so easily condemn yourself, by defence of Satan.
Those two points put all your protestations to naught!
Floyd.

You ARE going after JW's here online. Lettuce be clear.

You ARE going after Purity as to his deity of Jesus stance, which I bet you never investigated with a pure and sincere heart. First reason for doing so, because Jesus never SAID he was God, eh?

These things are obvious to a third grader, but not to the stanch supporters of Proto-orthodoxy. Then say all others are CULTS (with accompanying negative connotations).

Smooth move for quibbleators who have not the heart of Truth being the most important thing.

 

[truthquest]

I see my teachers correct their mistakes--proving truth is what they really seek. and the light also gets brighter to fulfill this truth-Daniel 12:4)
What is a cult? 32,999 disunified mass of confusion trinity based religionssssssssss- or a unified in love and peace worldwide religion? How many religion(s) were Gods chosen in the ot--one or32,999?--same today--one religion, one truth, one faith, one God. So the same truth found in the ot--is truth today as well--99% false religions on earth.( Babylon the great)

I don't see the truth as something that keeps changing. Do these teachers really seek truth? I posted a picture here where a claw is clearly seen. It is one picture of many with similar things in them. What do these teachers say about such pictures? That these things do not exist in the pictures. Is that the truth? Pictures like this that are published in books and magazines as a teaching aid. And if a JW saw this claw, would they need to ask an elder about it as if they couldn't think for themselves and deny what they are seeing with their own eyes and/or make excuses for it. And why is this? Because these "teachers" have elevated themselves so high so as to be beyond reproach and above being questioned for what they teach and for the pictures that they have approved to be published in books and magazines. In fact they have elevated themselves so high that now JW's seem to be confused and say that these "teachers" are the narrow gate one minute and then the next minute say that Jesus is the narrow gate.
Unified in love and peace? I guess that's the reason why some in my extended family who are JW's view me as bad association, "worldly" and tell me that I'm going to be destroyed in Armageddon. And make no mistake about it. That's how they view everybody who isn't a JW.

 

[StanJ]

What do we arrive in light of the following verses?

 Acts 13:33, “‘that this promise God has fulfilled to us, their children, by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second psalm, ‘You are my Son; today I have fathered you.””
 Hebrews 1:5, “For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my son! Today I have fathered you’? And in another place he says, ‘I will be his father and he will be my son.’”
 Hebrews 5:5, “So also Christ did not glorify himself in becoming high priest, but the one who glorified him was God, who said to him, ‘You are my Son! Today I have fathered you’”

The word for “fathered” in the two quotations from Hebrews is the Greek gennaō. It occurs 97 times in the NT, always refers to the act of birth, and signifies the literal commencement of life.

Scripture therefore affirms that Jesus’ existence had a beginning and that he was made just like other human beings in every possible way:

 Galatians 4:4, “But when the appropriate time had come, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law“
 Hebrews 2:17, “Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people.

Note that Jesus had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, which is how he can make atonement for us. The saving power of his sacrifice is predicated upon his humanity NOT deity!

Its so simple only you can confound its truth.

P.

So you're trying to tell us that God fathered Jesus on the day he said this in Acts 13:33?

The point is that Jesus was fathered by the Holy Spirit, Matt 1:20, but Jesus IS God incarnate as Paul teaches in Col 1:15-20 and Col 2:9-12
John 1:14 shows that God, The WORD, became flesh.

Jesus the man, did have a beginning, but God the Christ, did not.
To be LIKE someone does not mean they are that someone. The FACT is Jesus knew what His hypostatic nature was, as He showed in John 17:5.

The simplicity of the gospel is not lost on those that accept it as a child, Matt 18:3

 

[kjw47]

So you're trying to tell us that God fathered Jesus on the day he said this in Acts 13:33?

The point is that Jesus was fathered by the Holy Spirit, Matt 1:20, but Jesus IS God incarnate as Paul teaches in Col 1:15-20 and Col 2:9-12
John 1:14 shows that God, The WORD, became flesh.

Jesus the man, did have a beginning, but God the Christ, did not.
To be LIKE someone does not mean they are that someone. The FACT is Jesus knew what His hypostatic nature was, as He showed in John 17:5.

The simplicity of the gospel is not lost on those that accept it as a child, Matt 18:3

Prov 8:23---Jesus speaking---collosians 1:15--- firstborn of all CREATION)--REV 3:12-14---- Jesus speaking---God produced me as the beginning( creation) of his ways.

Jesus has a God-John 20:17,rev 3:12----- do you believe God has a God with another God over there.

 

[RANDOR]

The problem here is not wether Jesus was God or He was just the Son.........

They offer a cunning mixture of Scripture verses and "almost" Christian doctrines. Their approach, like that of the Mormons, is to stress elements of their doctrine which avoid controversy. The rest comes later.

But they are an "organization" of slaves, working desperately to "earn" eternal life. They seek salvation, not by grace, but by becoming "Kingdom Publishers."
They don't have a personal relationship with Christ (who they say is not God), but rather they observe a system of law and works.
They devote their attention to an all-encompassing fascination with prophecy, and the "vindication of God's sovereignty." They believe:

• Jehovah God existed from the beginning. His first creations were two angels, Michael (who later becomes Jesus) and Lucifer. Jehovah God created all else through his firstborn, Jesus (Michael).
• 
  
• Jehovah appointed Lucifer to watch over earth, but the angel became jealous of Jehovah. He seduced Adam and Eve, and became Satan. He dared challenge Jehovah's right to rule! Jehovah gave Satan 6,000 years to try to win over all humanity. When he fails, Jehovah God will re-establish his kingdom and destroy Satan and all his rebellious followers, thus vindicating Jehovah's name (an obsession with Witnesses).
• 
  
• 
  
• After thousands of years of this struggle, Jehovah God arranged for Michael to cease to exist and be recreated as Jesus, a human. He was killed as a ransom on a torture stake (not a cross) for all mankind. This released men from Adam's sinful legacy, and gave them a chance to be worthy of eternal life, if they were faithful Witnesses.
• 
  
• 
  
• When the human Jesus died, he stayed dead. He was recreated as a spirit (no bodily resurrection) and lives in heaven.
• 
  
• 
  
• Jesus Christ (now Michael) returned to earth invisibly in 1914 (the date has been changed repeatedly) and is working through his "Organization" to re-establish Jehovah's kingdom over the earth.
• 
  
• 
  
• The final battle between Jehovah and Satan, the Battle of Armageddon, is to start shortly, settling the question, "Who will rule earth?" A very special 144,000 Witnesses, the only ones considered "born again," will rule with Jesus in heaven at the end of this battle. All other Witnesses (numbering millions) will survive Armageddon, and live forever on earth, in the kingdom of the "New World."
• 
  
• 
  
• After 1,000 years of this utopian Kingdom comes the final test. Satan will be loosed for a while and deceive many. He and those who rebel with him will be destroyed by fire from heaven (no eternal hell, just quick annihilation). Jehovah's sovereignty over all creation will have been vindicated once and for all.

While many Christians disagree on the order of final events, there can be no disagreement on the work of Christ, or one is not really Christian. J.W.'s bear the indelible mark of a cult: they claim Christ's death on the cross is not sufficient for full salvation. One must believe that Jesus is God, and also in His bodily resurrection. Both are denied by the Witnesses.
In fact, Jehovah's Witnesses deny most of the basic doctrines of Christianity. Former Witnesses point out several basic denials:
They claim:

1. Jesus Christ is not God. Rather, he is Michael the archangel.
2. The Holy Spirit is not a person, but an "active force." J.W.'s are unitarians, denying the Trinity.
3. When you're dead, you're dead. Man has no eternal soul, any more than animals.
4. Jesus Christ was not raised bodily from the grave, but was recreated as a new "spirit body."
5. Jesus returned invisibly in 1914. There is no "visible coming" planned in the future.
6. There is no hell. Just like animals, when we die, it is over.
7. Only 144,000 people achieve heaven. The rest, faithful Witnesses who have died, will be recreated on earth during the kingdom of the "New World."

Focusing on the Old Testament, their system is a legalistic one. They forbid blood transfusions (they say that is eating blood). They also consider any salute to a flag as worship of that flag, and therefore prohibited. They don't vote, hold public office or serve in the military.
Consumed with preparing for a "New World," they know nothing of "New Life" in Jesus Christ.

But believing that Jesus is not God..........is where they miss out on being a new creation.
And are continually being hoodwinked and excepting the constant changes within their organization.

When I speak and look at a jw....I don't see a new creation.........I just see more baggage to carry around.

Like a caged animal.....only the cage keeps getting smaller

 

[michaelvpardo]

I think Arnie that JWs must all be low mentalities; as they swallow so easily the changing propaganda !
They also seem to be emotionally needful; probably because of rejection in their young years.
To stand alone with Scripture, and rely on it alone, and not their hierarchy of human support, is anathema to them.
Their controllers; like the Roman Church; want as many "converts" as possible, to fill their coffers!
The upper echelons' live a pretty exotic life style; which need cash!
Floyd.

I'm not terribly impressed with the reasoning ability of the JWs that I've met either or with their diligence in scholarship, however, strong delusion is just what it is described as; it's not inescapable, but represents very strong bondage of both the mind and the will. Only Jesus can set such people free, but they must first submit to Him as LORD (which is typically what most cults deny). Cults, like all false religion, the doctrine of demons, are intended by their originator (God's adversary) to keep souls from receiving the gospel and the free gift of redemption purchased by Jesus' blood. The ultimate result of such deception is destruction, and while the scripture has power to overturn every false argument (and has repeatedly here in this thread,) only the Holy Spirit can actually convince a person of the truth. This exercise in futility can go on until the Lord returns in glory, but the real power, which is in our hands and not in the hands of the adversary, is in fervent prayer. The Lord hears the righteous and since deliverance is God's will, we should actually concentrate our efforts on prayer for these lost souls rather than upon argument.
So, I would suggest that all who know the Lord and read these posts, should take the time to pray earnestly for "kjw47" and for "Purity," that the Lord would breathe new life into them and that they might know Him and find their peace in our God and King, even our Lord Jesus Christ, blessed forever. Amen.

 

[nothead]

I'm not terribly impressed with the reasoning ability of the JWs that I've met either or with their diligence in scholarship, however, strong delusion is just what it is described as; it's not inescapable, but represents very strong bondage of both the mind and the will. Only Jesus can set such people free, but they must first submit to Him as LORD (which is typically what most cults deny). Cults, like all false religion, the doctrine of demons, are intended by their originator (God's adversary) to keep souls from receiving the gospel and the free gift of redemption purchased by Jesus' blood. The ultimate result of such deception is destruction, and while the scripture has power to overturn every false argument (and has repeatedly here in this thread,) only the Holy Spirit can actually convince a person of the truth. This exercise in futility can go on until the Lord returns in glory, but the real power, which is in our hands and not in the hands of the adversary, is in fervent prayer. The Lord hears the righteous and since deliverance is God's will, we should actually concentrate our efforts on prayer for these lost souls rather than upon argument.
So, I would suggest that all who know the Lord and read these posts, should take the time to pray earnestly for "kjw47" and for "Purity," that the Lord would breathe new life into them and that they might know Him and find their peace in our God and King, even our Lord Jesus Christ, blessed forever. Amen.

Our God and King, even our Lord Jesus Christ is not scripture, sir. Glad you ain't praying for me with your misplaced blitherings. Listen up, stick to the Bible, and maybe YOUR paradigms of theology won't be so far off, thank you.

 

[Floyd]

The arguments have been rooted and grounded upon Scripture and not once have I used Nicene terminology, or any other philosophical expression to define the truth concerning the headship of Christ.

Its everywhere should you wish to plainly read.

Imagine for a moment not having that brain of yours filled up with Trinitarian dogma's - how would you interpret the following passages?

What do we arrive in light of the following verses?

 Acts 13:33, “‘that this promise God has fulfilled to us, their children, by raising Jesus, as also it is written in the second psalm, ‘You are my Son; today I have fathered you.””
 Hebrews 1:5, “For to which of the angels did God ever say, ‘You are my son! Today I have fathered you’? And in another place he says, ‘I will be his father and he will be my son.’”
 Hebrews 5:5, “So also Christ did not glorify himself in becoming high priest, but the one who glorified him was God, who said to him, ‘You are my Son! Today I have fathered you’”

The word for “fathered” in the two quotations from Hebrews is the Greek gennaō. It occurs 97 times in the NT, always refers to the act of birth, and signifies the literal commencement of life.

Scripture therefore affirms that Jesus’ existence had a beginning and that he was made just like other human beings in every possible way:

 Galatians 4:4, “But when the appropriate time had come, God sent out his Son, born of a woman, born under the law“
 Hebrews 2:17, “Therefore he had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, to make atonement for the sins of the people.

Note that Jesus had to be made like his brothers and sisters in every respect, which is how he can make atonement for us. The saving power of his sacrifice is predicated upon his humanity NOT deity!

Its so simple only you can confound its truth.

P.

P: you didn't answer the point; as to why you defend Satan?
F.

 

[Purity]

P: you didn't answer the point; as to why you defend Satan?
F.

When literally translated, it signifies adversary.

And the angel of the Lord stood in the way for an adversary (Heb. Sahtahn)—Behold, I went out to withstand thee (Heb., Sahtahn—to be an adversary unto thee. See Marg.) Num 22:22,32

So what you are asking me is why would I here defend an angel of the Lord? - the answer of course is I cannot! - its impossible - for one, I cannot defend a thing I cannot see.

Maybe you can?

 

[Floyd]

When literally translated, it signifies adversary.

And the angel of the Lord stood in the way for an adversary (Heb. Sahtahn)—Behold, I went out to withstand thee (Heb., Sahtahn—to be an adversary unto thee. See Marg.) Num 22:22,32

So what you are asking me is why would I here defend an angel of the Lord? - the answer of course is I cannot! - its impossible - for one, I cannot defend a thing I cannot see.

Maybe you can?

A nonsense answer!
F.

 

[Purity]

A nonsense answer!
F.

So what is nonsense about it.

Fact 1. The Hebrew here is translated adversary which is elsewhere Satan.

Is this true?

In the KJV the translators got it wrong here so other translations have corrected the mistake for obvious reasons..

And Satan (adversary) stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel. 1 Chron 21:1NET & 2 Sam 24:1NET

Fact 2. The same Hebrew word here is the same as fact 1 except in the KJV 1 Chron 21:1KJV a translation bais took place which thankfully has been corrected.

Conclusion: Here are two instances where your beloved Satan has turned out to be Angels of the Lord doing Gods work.

Facts facts and more facts - I love facts Floyd especially when they cannot be refuted - I get tingles when this happens for I know the Word of God is sharp and it just cut you - I know this because you had nothing to give - empty and void.

Learn Floyd learn.

After thought: Here is the translators note: tn Or “Satan.” The Hebrew word שָׂטָן (satan) can refer to an adversary in general or Satan in particular. There is no article accompanying the term here, which suggests it should be understood generally -

This satan is not attached to a person, group of representative which is known.

Would you like to learn more about the adversaries in the Bible?

Why stop here Floyd - lets continue our little Sunday School lesson of your beloved Satan.

Is your Satan here in 1 Sam 29:4 ?

What about the stirring up of an adversary (Sahtahn) unto Solomon, Hadad the Edomite. 1 Kings 11:14

Lets do a count shall we?

2 Satan's are angels of the Lord and we have 2 kings but what about supernatural evil beings 0

Lets continue...

O I hear you think I always have Job in the OT to pin my hopes on!

And Satan (the adversary, see Marg.) came also among them. Job 1:6.. and this adversary doesn't have any power at all - he has to get God to afflict Job.

In the book of Job, it is God (not satan), who is considered the source of disaster by:
• God (Job 2:3)
• Job (Job 1:21; 2:10; 6:4; 10:2; 19:21; 27:2)
• Job’s servant (Job 1:16)
• Job’s wife (Job 2:9)
• Job’s three friends (Job 5:17; 8:4; 11:5-6)
• Job’s acquaintances and relations (Job 42:11)
• Job’s satan himself (Job 1:11; 2:5)

What are you going to do Floyd when you run out of OT passages to hang your Satan doctrine on? Where will you force it? Gen? Isa? what about Ezek? I know lets go over to Zechariah shall we?

And Satan (an adversary, see Marg.) standeth at his right hand to resist him. (Heb., to be his adversary, see Marg.) Zech 3:1

Ok, so we have almost run out of OT passages which use the word adversary Floyd.

Set thou a wicked man over him; and let Satan (an adversary, see Marg.) stand at his right hand. Ps 109:6KJV cmp Ps 109:6NET

Here is another mistranslation which was later corrected as per the translators note.

Let this be the reward of mine adversaries (Heb. word translated). Psa 109:20 also 2 Sam 19:22 .

Well, that's the OT Floyd - we did it together and discovered a number of angelic adversaries and some humans apposing the Kings of Israel but not once are we told over thousand's of years of OT history of a supernatural being with the personal pronoun Satan.

Study the facts before you give a foolish answer!

P

 

[Floyd]

So what is nonsense about it.

Fact 1. The Hebrew here is translated adversary which is elsewhere Satan.

Is this true?

In the KJV the translators got it wrong here so other translations have corrected the mistake for obvious reasons..

And Satan (adversary) stood up against Israel and provoked David to number Israel. 1 Chron 21:1NET & 2 Sam 24:1NET

Fact 2. The same Hebrew word here is the same as fact 1 except in the KJV 1 Chron 21:1KJV a translation bais took place which thankfully has been corrected.

Conclusion: Here are two instances where your beloved Satan has turned out to be Angels of the Lord doing Gods work.

Facts facts and more facts - I love facts Floyd especially when they cannot be refuted - I get tingles when this happens for I know the Word of God is sharp and it just cut you - I know this because you had nothing to give - empty and void.

Learn Floyd learn.

After thought: Here is the translators note: tn Or “Satan.” The Hebrew word שָׂטָן (satan) can refer to an adversary in general or Satan in particular. There is no article accompanying the term here, which suggests it should be understood generally -

This satan is not attached to a person, group of representative which is known.

Would you like to learn more about the adversaries in the Bible?

Yes; your hero is called by Christ Jesus/God; "the father of lies"; which follows in your case and answers !
Floyd.



The father of Lies, John 8:44


[SIZE=13.5pt]Jesus is speaking in this verse to the scribes and Pharisees. They had just claimed God as their father, but Jesus stated startlingly that Satan was their father! The reason for the statement, was their continual lying, and misuse of Scripture, together with their own writings, to support their falsehood, and their perverted leadership positions over the Jewish people. Jesus was also pointing to a greater fact, that the lying activity He highlighted in the perverse rulers of Israel, had been active "from the beginning" (John 8:44,) under the auspices of Satan![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]This begs the question from the sincere seeker as to how to know and discern Truth. It is clear from Jesus’ words that perversion of Truth has taken place since Eden, it is still taking place, and will continue to do so until Christ’s return to earth in Great Power! It is clearly implicit that Truth has to be worked at, and in 2Timothy 2:15, is explicit![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]In Rev. 14:5, the 144000, are declared without “the Lie,”[/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt] this is the translation to the original manuscripts. These especially selected men, 12,000 from each of the Jewish 12 Tribes, have a particular function to perform for Almighty God. The fact that “the Lie” is not in them, emphasizes how wide spread and pervasive the Lie will become by that time. Again the obvious question is how to know Truth? An examination of the use of the word “Lie” in Rev.14:5, is a starting point.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]"The Lie;" the A.V. translates "no guile." The Interlinear manuscript Str. number (1388) renders "to decoy," "to trick," "deceit," "guile," "subtlety," from a root word (Str. 1185) "to entrap," "delude," "allure," "beguile," "entice." Dr. Bullinger gives "was not found the Lie," his deduction from ancient texts. The N.I.V. has "no Lie." J.N. Darby "no Lie." R.S.V. "no Lie." Revised Authorised "no guile." However, the Lie goes on. It has continued from Eve in various forms, and usually men and women find the Lie attractive in the form it is presented in their own life time. Instead of trusting, studying and teaching the Truth as God the Holy Spirit gives it in the Bible, it is perverted, modified etc., to suit the feelings, dogmas, motives and perversions of fallen mankind. The most prevalent currently is "there are many ways to God." This one appeases the world religions (all of Babylon,) and even the pastors, preachers, vicars etc. in the Western world are now exhorted by their colleges, seminaries etc., "not to create waves," by preaching Christ crucified, and the only way of Salvation, (Acts 4:12 and elsewhere.) This is the ultimate version of “the Lie[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt].”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The “charismatic” effect is an example of one of "the variations of the Lie," that has permeated many mainline churches, i.e. Roman Catholic, C of E, Baptist, Methodist, Brethren, etc. and of course the Charismatic Churches as an offshoot of Pentecostals. Even some Alpha courses in some parts of the world have included a “spiritual” section, which is charismatic in all but name! The degree of penetration of this Lie, is often a function of the understanding and determination of the leadership. Truly spiritual leaders stand against the encroachment and the false claims of the adherents, and maintain the correct focus,Christ Crucified, Risen, and Returning to Earth at some stage in the future! See: [/SIZE] GIFTS AT PENTECOST [SIZE=medium] (Separate study)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=13.5pt]The many subtleties and variations of “the Lie,” are too numerous to list, and are in any case unknown. Satan's temptation of Eve and Adam in the Garden of Eden is the first recorded in this Creation. After the Flood, "the Lie" gathered new momentum at Babylon, via Nimrod and his mother, "the Lie" has continued since through all pagan religions, in all parts of the world. It is recorded in the Old Testament that Almighty God started to deal with this problem, by calling Abram out of Ur, which calling Abram could have refused in his God given free will. Abram obeyed God’s call, left his family and their pagan gods behind, and in that action became the “father of Israel” and followed the line of “faith from Abel," (Heb.11.) The flood was God’s dealing with the first perversion after Eden, He has stated that the next Retribution will be by fire (2 Peter 3:7.) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]Although the list of pagan/false christian religions is too numerous to make, there is however an underlying ethos in all of them, which for the seeker of truth must prayerfully be observed. All false religions, and false religious practices, demand adherence to a leadership WHICH MUST NOT BE QUESTIONED, which is the opposite to that which Christ gives, freedom! [/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]What they SAY in an interpretation or a rule must be adhered to! This principle of abdicating one's own mind and intelligence to the group leaders is the great controlling power, allowing erroneous and satanic groups to grow![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]All True and healthy groups in a Christian context, encourage study of a good translation of the Bible. Questions as they arise must not be suppressed, but debated openly, and in a spirit of love, bearing in mind constantly that The Truth of Almighty[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]God is being handled![/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]In practice, although mostly good intentions are expressed, differences do arise, which is where a true test of The Spirit of Christ in a group is manifested, or otherwise![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The situation in the world has probably never been more confusing for the “ seeker” than at the present time, (2014,) as the myriad of “churches, cults, groups, religions, spiritists, mediums, shamans, holy women, holy men, and many, many more, are all claiming truth![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]At the forefront are the “respectable churches,” one being the Roman Catholic Church. If they are examined to the principles above, they draw a zero rating, as they fail all the criteria of a true to the Bible group! For example, they demand complete obedience to the Priest, to his teaching, to his interpretation of the Bible, to his rules of worship, and among many other errors, his non Biblical teaching on many subjects, including the Pope, purgatory, hell, to name but a few. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]At the other end of the “Christendom” scale are the various cults, which have many and various teachings from the Bible, particularly the Gospels, which can seem to have veracity, especially for the vulnerable, and people under various troubles.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]What they all have in common is their dictation of the lives and minds of their members,[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]who are not allowed to question the leaders “edicts and interpretations.” They go so far as to say in some current groups, that unless the person “can perform miracles, speaking in tongues (languages) other than the native, they are not saved!” Some years ago, this type of group, (Pentecostal, Charismatic etc.) did not make such a strong claim. They were content to pronounce that “some people had not received the “second blessing,” called by others “the Toronto blessing”, as its origin was Toronto, which created a two tier system within the group! They all misuse many Scriptures to try to enforce their claims, which will have its own reward, as is shown in Matt. 7:23.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The end result of all the attempts by Satan to propagate “the Lie” in its many forms as partially described above, is “the Lake of Fire” in Rev. 20-15. However prior to that, Rev.14:9-11 comes into play![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The point is that all the methods and variations of “the Lie” mean one thing only, those people BELONG TO SATAN, they are owned by him, and the later ones described in Revelation have his mark and worship him openly! Many will object, that they are worshiping God, and his Christ! If they have any doubt about that, and their controllers threaten “expulsion, or excommunication,” and will not let them question their teaching, they may eventually hear the words of Christ as recorded for prophecy by Him, Matt. 7:22-23![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]Many people will object, that this is too all embracing, and that there are many people who sincerely worship God and Christ, even though their leaders are either misguided, or ignorant, or deliberately misleading their adherents. That is a totally valid point, which when examining the “ordinary Jew” of Jesus’ day large numbers believed and were saved INDIVIDUALLY. The Lord is the only one that “knows the heart” of a person, and He is the final arbiter![/SIZE] Any grouping that proclaims Christ is not “The Son of God,” (God manifest in the flesh) but a created son, has God’s total condemnation. Some so called Christian groups teach such, a notable one being Jehovah's Witnesses. In all the mainline churches there are quite probably sincere Christians, but if that is the case, they will at some stage have to give account of their laxity of understanding etc., which quite possibly bears on their eternal condition!

[SIZE=13.5pt]The leaders have the greatest burden of Truth. The Shepherds of Israel have come into great judgment (yet future,) because of misguiding Israel! The leaders ever since are under the same watchful Eye of Almighty God for the same reason! All misuse of Scripture for Satan’s purpose will have terrible punishment! In this context, our Lord’s words in Matt. 7:22-23, regarding some people who claimed to be doing His work, i.e. prophesying, casting out demons, wonderful works in His name etc., will be told “to depart, I never knew you!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]There are some leaders that say that we are still in the same times (Age) now as in the Acts period, and that the same rules apply. If that was the case, many Christians would die, almost as soon as they became Christians, as they would be convicted by the Holy Spirit in the same way as Ananias and Sapphira! (Acts 5:1-10.) Many of these same groups say that the conditions still apply as detailed in Mark 16:15-18, and fulfilled in Acts 5:12, and elsewhere in Acts, but they will not allow close inspection of the so-called powers of healing etc., which clearly proves the point of false claim![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]To arrive at Truth, always remembering that God knows all our true intentions, (our hearts,) we must study for ourselves from a good Bible translation. If we can find a Bible believing group we should join it, for study and worship, the group organization should allow open discussion on the Bible, and any other subject related. It should allow any genuine question on the groups teaching, principles, organization, activities etc. The group, or leaders should never demand obedience beyond normal good behaviour or manners. If claims or demands are made which do not appear to chime with reason, commonsense or the Bible, they should be challenged in open forum. The will of the individual should never be “subjected” to a person or group, except in openly approved, Christian “norms and principles” which are common to the group, and Posted and known prior to joining. In such a Christ centred atmosphere, growth of group and individual will flourish, and the Holy Spirit, the Comforter will be in the midst in Truth![/SIZE]

 

[Purity]

Not another screen dump Floyd....leave you with the evidence of the previous post

 

[Floyd]

Yes; your hero is called by Christ Jesus/God; "the father of lies"; which follows in your case and answers !
Floyd.


The father of Lies, John 8:44


[SIZE=13.5pt]Jesus is speaking in this verse to the scribes and Pharisees. They had just claimed God as their father, but Jesus stated startlingly that Satan was their father! The reason for the statement, was their continual lying, and misuse of Scripture, together with their own writings, to support their falsehood, and their perverted leadership positions over the Jewish people. Jesus was also pointing to a greater fact, that the lying activity He highlighted in the perverse rulers of Israel, had been active "from the beginning" (John 8:44,) under the auspices of Satan![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]This begs the question from the sincere seeker as to how to know and discern Truth. It is clear from Jesus’ words that perversion of Truth has taken place since Eden, it is still taking place, and will continue to do so until Christ’s return to earth in Great Power! It is clearly implicit that Truth has to be worked at, and in 2Timothy 2:15, is explicit![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]In Rev. 14:5, the 144000, are declared without “the Lie,”[/SIZE][SIZE=13.5pt] this is the translation to the original manuscripts. These especially selected men, 12,000 from each of the Jewish 12 Tribes, have a particular function to perform for Almighty God. The fact that “the Lie” is not in them, emphasizes how wide spread and pervasive the Lie will become by that time. Again the obvious question is how to know Truth? An examination of the use of the word “Lie” in Rev.14:5, is a starting point.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]"The Lie;" the A.V. translates "no guile." The Interlinear manuscript Str. number (1388) renders "to decoy," "to trick," "deceit," "guile," "subtlety," from a root word (Str. 1185) "to entrap," "delude," "allure," "beguile," "entice." Dr. Bullinger gives "was not found the Lie," his deduction from ancient texts. The N.I.V. has "no Lie." J.N. Darby "no Lie." R.S.V. "no Lie." Revised Authorised "no guile." However, the Lie goes on. It has continued from Eve in various forms, and usually men and women find the Lie attractive in the form it is presented in their own life time. Instead of trusting, studying and teaching the Truth as God the Holy Spirit gives it in the Bible, it is perverted, modified etc., to suit the feelings, dogmas, motives and perversions of fallen mankind. The most prevalent currently is "there are many ways to God." This one appeases the world religions (all of Babylon,) and even the pastors, preachers, vicars etc. in the Western world are now exhorted by their colleges, seminaries etc., "not to create waves," by preaching Christ crucified, and the only way of Salvation, (Acts 4:12 and elsewhere.) This is the ultimate version of “the Lie[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt].”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The “charismatic” effect is an example of one of "the variations of the Lie," that has permeated many mainline churches, i.e. Roman Catholic, C of E, Baptist, Methodist, Brethren, etc. and of course the Charismatic Churches as an offshoot of Pentecostals. Even some Alpha courses in some parts of the world have included a “spiritual” section, which is charismatic in all but name! The degree of penetration of this Lie, is often a function of the understanding and determination of the leadership. Truly spiritual leaders stand against the encroachment and the false claims of the adherents, and maintain the correct focus,Christ Crucified, Risen, and Returning to Earth at some stage in the future! See: [/SIZE] GIFTS AT PENTECOST [SIZE=medium] (Separate study)[/SIZE]


[SIZE=13.5pt]The many subtleties and variations of “the Lie,” are too numerous to list, and are in any case unknown. Satan's temptation of Eve and Adam in the Garden of Eden is the first recorded in this Creation. After the Flood, "the Lie" gathered new momentum at Babylon, via Nimrod and his mother, "the Lie" has continued since through all pagan religions, in all parts of the world. It is recorded in the Old Testament that Almighty God started to deal with this problem, by calling Abram out of Ur, which calling Abram could have refused in his God given free will. Abram obeyed God’s call, left his family and their pagan gods behind, and in that action became the “father of Israel” and followed the line of “faith from Abel," (Heb.11.) The flood was God’s dealing with the first perversion after Eden, He has stated that the next Retribution will be by fire (2 Peter 3:7.) [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]Although the list of pagan/false christian religions is too numerous to make, there is however an underlying ethos in all of them, which for the seeker of truth must prayerfully be observed. All false religions, and false religious practices, demand adherence to a leadership WHICH MUST NOT BE QUESTIONED, which is the opposite to that which Christ gives, freedom! [/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]What they SAY in an interpretation or a rule must be adhered to! This principle of abdicating one's own mind and intelligence to the group leaders is the great controlling power, allowing erroneous and satanic groups to grow![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]All True and healthy groups in a Christian context, encourage study of a good translation of the Bible. Questions as they arise must not be suppressed, but debated openly, and in a spirit of love, bearing in mind constantly that The Truth of Almighty[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]God is being handled![/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]In practice, although mostly good intentions are expressed, differences do arise, which is where a true test of The Spirit of Christ in a group is manifested, or otherwise![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The situation in the world has probably never been more confusing for the “ seeker” than at the present time, (2014,) as the myriad of “churches, cults, groups, religions, spiritists, mediums, shamans, holy women, holy men, and many, many more, are all claiming truth![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]At the forefront are the “respectable churches,” one being the Roman Catholic Church. If they are examined to the principles above, they draw a zero rating, as they fail all the criteria of a true to the Bible group! For example, they demand complete obedience to the Priest, to his teaching, to his interpretation of the Bible, to his rules of worship, and among many other errors, his non Biblical teaching on many subjects, including the Pope, purgatory, hell, to name but a few. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]At the other end of the “Christendom” scale are the various cults, which have many and various teachings from the Bible, particularly the Gospels, which can seem to have veracity, especially for the vulnerable, and people under various troubles.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]What they all have in common is their dictation of the lives and minds of their members,[/SIZE] [SIZE=13.5pt]who are not allowed to question the leaders “edicts and interpretations.” They go so far as to say in some current groups, that unless the person “can perform miracles, speaking in tongues (languages) other than the native, they are not saved!” Some years ago, this type of group, (Pentecostal, Charismatic etc.) did not make such a strong claim. They were content to pronounce that “some people had not received the “second blessing,” called by others “the Toronto blessing”, as its origin was Toronto, which created a two tier system within the group! They all misuse many Scriptures to try to enforce their claims, which will have its own reward, as is shown in Matt. 7:23.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The end result of all the attempts by Satan to propagate “the Lie” in its many forms as partially described above, is “the Lake of Fire” in Rev. 20-15. However prior to that, Rev.14:9-11 comes into play![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]The point is that all the methods and variations of “the Lie” mean one thing only, those people BELONG TO SATAN, they are owned by him, and the later ones described in Revelation have his mark and worship him openly! Many will object, that they are worshiping God, and his Christ! If they have any doubt about that, and their controllers threaten “expulsion, or excommunication,” and will not let them question their teaching, they may eventually hear the words of Christ as recorded for prophecy by Him, Matt. 7:22-23![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]Many people will object, that this is too all embracing, and that there are many people who sincerely worship God and Christ, even though their leaders are either misguided, or ignorant, or deliberately misleading their adherents. That is a totally valid point, which when examining the “ordinary Jew” of Jesus’ day large numbers believed and were saved INDIVIDUALLY. The Lord is the only one that “knows the heart” of a person, and He is the final arbiter![/SIZE] Any grouping that proclaims Christ is not “The Son of God,” (God manifest in the flesh) but a created son, has God’s total condemnation. Some so called Christian groups teach such, a notable one being Jehovah's Witnesses. In all the mainline churches there are quite probably sincere Christians, but if that is the case, they will at some stage have to give account of their laxity of understanding etc., which quite possibly bears on their eternal condition!

[SIZE=13.5pt]The leaders have the greatest burden of Truth. The Shepherds of Israel have come into great judgment (yet future,) because of misguiding Israel! The leaders ever since are under the same watchful Eye of Almighty God for the same reason! All misuse of Scripture for Satan’s purpose will have terrible punishment! In this context, our Lord’s words in Matt. 7:22-23, regarding some people who claimed to be doing His work, i.e. prophesying, casting out demons, wonderful works in His name etc., will be told “to depart, I never knew you!”[/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]There are some leaders that say that we are still in the same times (Age) now as in the Acts period, and that the same rules apply. If that was the case, many Christians would die, almost as soon as they became Christians, as they would be convicted by the Holy Spirit in the same way as Ananias and Sapphira! (Acts 5:1-10.) Many of these same groups say that the conditions still apply as detailed in Mark 16:15-18, and fulfilled in Acts 5:12, and elsewhere in Acts, but they will not allow close inspection of the so-called powers of healing etc., which clearly proves the point of false claim![/SIZE]

[SIZE=13.5pt]To arrive at Truth, always remembering that God knows all our true intentions, (our hearts,) we must study for ourselves from a good Bible translation. If we can find a Bible believing group we should join it, for study and worship, the group organization should allow open discussion on the Bible, and any other subject related. It should allow any genuine question on the groups teaching, principles, organization, activities etc. The group, or leaders should never demand obedience beyond normal good behaviour or manners. If claims or demands are made which do not appear to chime with reason, commonsense or the Bible, they should be challenged in open forum. The will of the individual should never be “subjected” to a person or group, except in openly approved, Christian “norms and principles” which are common to the group, and Posted and known prior to joining. In such a Christ centred atmosphere, growth of group and individual will flourish, and the Holy Spirit, the Comforter will be in the midst in Truth![/SIZE]

Not another screen dump Floyd....leave you with the evidence of the previous post


I do realise that you have trouble with concentration Purity; especially when your arguments are reduced to ash; It avoids painful truth being absorbed!
You need to restudy to get back to what you have lost along the way , in your rebellion!
That's the only way of hope for you and yours!
Your hero, Satan, has his way with you, you are in serious peril!
Floyd.