What is the new nature?

[Taken]

IF you believe it's literally impossible for a Christian to never sin after they get saved... the error is on your part.

You are speaking of “Christians”,AS IF ALL Christians Are “born again”…
They are not.

Scripture speaks of the “Born Again”.
I was speaking of the “Born Again”.

There’s warnings in God's Word written to Christians warning then to NOT sin.

There are warning to all PEOPLE to Not sin.
All People are not Christians.

There are warnings to all People WHO BELIEVE (who are NOT born again) to not fall away from Believing. They are called having “fallen from Faith”.

All People, All Christians, All Jews are not “born again”.

Any person, (Jew or Gentile, including Christians, including Jews who ARE born again…Sin NO MORE.

“No more”, means they recognize they were naturally born in sin, committed sin, believe IN the Lord God, repented their sin, Confessed their True Heartful Belief, were forgiven their sin, BECAME “born again”, thus by the Power of God “IN” them, can Sin…NO MORE.

Not everyone NO MATTER what they call themselves, Who Have the Seed of God, Have the Power (Spirit) of God “IN” them, Sin no more.
* (They who DO, Are Forgiven, Are Sanctified, Are Born Again, Can Sin NO MORE.)
* (They who Are Born Again, Have an “Appointed Time” to be raised in Glory).
* (They who Are Born Again, Have NO Appointment with Wrath sent down from Heaven.)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ritajanice]

Error.



You are trying to make Scripture APPLY to all people who call themselves or that others call Christians.
Many calling themselves “Christians”, hearing and learning and following…. ARE NOT “crucified with Christ, soul saved or spirit quickened”, or called “sons of God”.

Scripture teaches the Converted ‘IN’ Christ are they “born of God” and sin NO MORE.

Individuals should know which Scriptures apply to them, and which Scriptures do Not apply to them….and WHY.

Glory to God,
Taken

Brilliant post, Sis, 100% agree with what is be said here...why, because it was said in the Spirit....Praise God.

 

[Ritajanice]

You are speaking of “Christians”,AS IF ALL Christians Are “born again”…
They are not.

Once again 100% true..Amen!!

 

[Tulipbee]

I would like to know more about the new nature that God gave us. The verse in question is from 2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV...

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Anybody have detailed data on this from working the Word?

I'm not looking for opinions on this subject based on how one might feel at the moment.

Ah, Peterlag, diving into the mysteries of the new nature like a theological detective! Let's embark on a biblical stand-up routine, shedding light on 2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV with a touch of divine humor.

So here we are, in the comedy club of Corinthians, and Paul takes the mic, saying, "Hey Corinthians, if anyone's in Christ, it's like a divine makeover – the heavenly edition of 'Extreme Home Makeover'! The old you? Gone. The new you? Ta-da! It's like spiritual renovation without the need for a wrecking ball."

Now, let's consult the divine database for more details. In Ephesians 4:24 (NIV), Paul adds another punchline: "Put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." It's like getting a tailored suit of godliness – none of that off-the-rack righteousness!

And Colossians 3:10 (NIV) chimes in with, "Put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator." It's not just a makeover; it's a continuous upgrade! Like God's own software update for the soul.

But wait, there's more! Romans 6:4 (NIV) jumps into the biblical comedy ring: "We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." It's like the divine resurrection – no zombies, just new life!

So, Peterlag, as we unravel the divine comedy of the new nature, remember, it's not about opinions; it's about God's stand-up routine in the Bible. The old has gone, the new is here – the heavenly punchline of a cosmic makeover! Ready for more divine laughter?

 

[Peterlag]

Uh huh, and you have stepped out side of being "IN Him" and done a few sins and made a few mistakes after you got born again.

Everyone has... even those that lie and say they have literally been perfect after getting saved and have never made even one sin or one mistake after getting saved.

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

 

[Tulipbee]

Well, folks, looks like we've stumbled into a biblical discussion that's more intense than a game of biblical Scrabble. Let me throw in a verse to lighten the mood:

Proverbs 17:22 - "A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones."

So, let's keep the vibes cheerful and remember, even in deep theological discussions, a little laughter can go a long way. Now, who's up for a joke or a funny parable?

 

[Peterlag]

IF you believe it's literally impossible for a Christian to never sin after they get saved... the error is on your part.

There's warnings in God's Word written to Christians warning then to NOT sin.

If it were literally not possible for a Christians to sin, none of these warnings would be in God's Word.




Yes, we should not sin anymore... but YOU have sinned at least once after becoming a Christian. View attachment 39937




Another false assumption... once saved always saved is in fact false doctrine

we should not sin anymore... but YOU have sinned at least once after becoming a Christian View attachment 39938




YOU have not abides in Christ 100% of the time since you have been born again.

Anyone who claims to have never sinned not even once since getting saved... needs to repent for lying!

No, we should not sin, and when we are abiding IN Christ we don't sin... but there's not one Christian ever in the history of Christianity that has lived literally perfect having not sinned or made any mistakes after getting born again.

Kind a hard to think of myself as a sinner when I read 2 Corinthians 5:21...

... so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (NIV)
... that we might be made the righteousness of God in him..... (KJV)






New Living Translation

 

[Peterlag]

Well, folks, looks like we've stumbled into a biblical discussion that's more intense than a game of biblical Scrabble. Let me throw in a verse to lighten the mood:

Proverbs 17:22 - "A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones."

So, let's keep the vibes cheerful and remember, even in deep theological discussions, a little laughter can go a long way. Now, who's up for a joke or a funny parable?

Am I wrong with this...

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

 

[Tulipbee]

Am I wrong with this...

The New Testament epistles have words like "remission of sins" and "sins may be blotted out" and "the forgiveness of sins" and "wash away thy sins" and "whose sins are covered" and "impute sin" and "are dead to sin" and "condemned sin in the flesh" and "take away their sins" and "Christ died for our sins" and "purged our sins..." The book of Romans begins talking about Jews and Gentiles being both under sin and this should not be anything new to us since both are still broken without the spirit of God. And yet for some mysterious reason I live on a planet where many Christians think their flesh is justified by the deeds of the law even after the book of Romans tells us plainly that everyone except the Christian is under sin (Romans 3:20 says Jews and Gentiles).

Romans tell us "sin is not imputed when there is no law" and "that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." And then there's verse 7 with "For he that is dead is freed from sin." I never understood Romans 6 because I was taught that I was a sinner saved by grace. Let's look at what Romans is saying: Christ died unto sin once and now he lives unto God. How are we who are still alive going to be able to likewise reckon ourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God? It seems to me it must be done through Jesus Christ our Lord. It's not about us or our broken selves. It's him we must function in. Here's the verse "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord."

It appears both Catholic and Protestant churches do not teach that "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." Nor do they teach "For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness." And so "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." I'm going to skip over Romans 7 because it tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about human's and how they toy with their flesh.

Well, buckle up, fellow theologians! Looks like we're navigating the biblical maze with more twists than a biblical Scrabble game. Now, let me sprinkle a bit of humor to keep the spirit cheerful, as Proverbs 17:22 wisely says, "A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones."
Now, onto the cosmic dance of sins and righteousness! Peterlag, you've laid out quite the buffet of verses from the New Testament, and it's like a theological feast. Romans, with its twists and turns, keeps us on our toes.
You mentioned Romans 3:20, emphasizing that everyone except the Christian is under sin. It's like the ultimate plot twist – we're all in the same boat, just floating differently.
And the mystery of Romans 6! Christ died unto sin, and here we are, trying to reckon ourselves dead to sin. It's like a divine mind game, isn't it? But hey, it's not about us or our broken selves; it's all about dancing through life with Jesus Christ as our partner.
Now, the tug of war between law and grace – "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." It's like the ultimate escape clause! And let's not forget the freedom from sin – "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." Quite the divine plot twist there!
So, my theological companions, let's keep the banter light, the laughter hearty, and remember, even in the intricate tapestry of theological discussions, a little comedy can be the secret sauce!

 

[Peterlag]

Well, buckle up, fellow theologians! Looks like we're navigating the biblical maze with more twists than a biblical Scrabble game. Now, let me sprinkle a bit of humor to keep the spirit cheerful, as Proverbs 17:22 wisely says, "A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones."
Now, onto the cosmic dance of sins and righteousness! Peterlag, you've laid out quite the buffet of verses from the New Testament, and it's like a theological feast. Romans, with its twists and turns, keeps us on our toes.
You mentioned Romans 3:20, emphasizing that everyone except the Christian is under sin. It's like the ultimate plot twist – we're all in the same boat, just floating differently.
And the mystery of Romans 6! Christ died unto sin, and here we are, trying to reckon ourselves dead to sin. It's like a divine mind game, isn't it? But hey, it's not about us or our broken selves; it's all about dancing through life with Jesus Christ as our partner.
Now, the tug of war between law and grace – "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." It's like the ultimate escape clause! And let's not forget the freedom from sin – "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." Quite the divine plot twist there!
So, my theological companions, let's keep the banter light, the laughter hearty, and remember, even in the intricate tapestry of theological discussions, a little comedy can be the secret sauce!

Here's a bit more for you Bible fans...

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

 

[amadeus]

Yes, Gal 6:7,8 for one... if you sow to the flesh (sin) you shall of the flesh reap corruption!

Those that become corrupt are no longer in right standing with the Lord meaning that have been separated from the Lord because in Him there is NO darkness.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:




That is speaking of God's love... of course he still loves us if we sin.. but when we sin we become unrighteous.

If this were not true, then 1 John 1:9 would not be saying IF we confess our sins He shall cleans us of all unrighteousness

This is another way we know that when we sin, we have become unrighteous.

And it';s WHY the Lord warns us through out the New Testament against living in sin walking after the flesh... if we walk after the flesh we shall die (Romans 8:13) which is spiritual death, becoming unrighteous being separated from God just like what happened to Adam and Eve

This is written to Christians:

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.




Not when the person decides to use their body to do sin!

1 Thessalonians 4:4
That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;

Romans 12:1,2 (see James 4:4 - whosoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God – WARNING!)
I declare to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your body a living sacrifice, Holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service....and be not conformed to this world (see James 4:4): but be transformed by the renewing of your mind (understanding, vision), that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19, 20
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own....for you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

God's Word tells us to control our body!




And that would be their fault for engaging in sinful behavior and refusing to humble themselves before the Lord and turn away from their loving sin more than loving God!

2 Corinthians 6:17
Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

God received those that come out of the world is is not living in uncleanliness (sin)




Not true... God has a remnant of faith people that detest sin and does not engage in sinful behavior.

Those that become lukewarm thinking it's all good as long as we don't sin all the time... are deceived by the devil and are mocking God whether they know it or not. If we sow to the flesh (sin), we SHALL reap corruption

Hebrews 3:13
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Indeed! We to ask God help us do these impossible things:

1th 5:17

Pray without ceasing.

Php 4:4

Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.

Is God not up to it?

 

[Peterlag]

Indeed! We to ask God help us do these impossible things:

1th 5:17

Pray without ceasing.

Php 4:4

Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice.

Is God not up to it?

There's got to be a reason why you guys can't see this. I betcha you it's the Catholics.

Galatians 6:8
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
That would be the guy without spirit.

but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
That would be the guy with spirit.

Same as Romans 8...

Romans 8:5-8
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Those without the spirit mind the flesh. Those with the spirit mind the spirit.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Death is what you receive without the spirit. With the spirit is life.

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Meaning without the spirit.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[amadeus]

There's got to be a reason why you guys can't see this. I betcha you it's the Catholics.

I am sorry but what is the "this" that I am unable to see?

 

[Jay Ross]

Ah, Peterlag, diving into the mysteries of the new nature like a theological detective! Let's embark on a biblical stand-up routine, shedding light on 2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV with a touch of divine humor.

So here we are, in the comedy club of Corinthians, and Paul takes the mic, saying, "Hey Corinthians, if anyone's in Christ, it's like a divine makeover – the heavenly edition of 'Extreme Home Makeover'! The old you? Gone. The new you? Ta-da! It's like spiritual renovation without the need for a wrecking ball."

Now, let's consult the divine database for more details. In Ephesians 4:24 (NIV), Paul adds another punchline: "Put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." It's like getting a tailored suit of godliness – none of that off-the-rack righteousness!

And Colossians 3:10 (NIV) chimes in with, "Put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator." It's not just a makeover; it's a continuous upgrade! Like God's own software update for the soul.

But wait, there's more! Romans 6:4 (NIV) jumps into the biblical comedy ring: "We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." It's like the divine resurrection – no zombies, just new life!

So, Peterlag, as we unravel the divine comedy of the new nature, remember, it's not about opinions; it's about God's stand-up routine in the Bible. The old has gone, the new is here – the heavenly punchline of a cosmic makeover! Ready for more divine laughter?

Ah, Tulipbee, you are stumbling around like a bumble bee not understanding what it is that Paul is telling us to do.

You quoted Eph 4:24 to support your POV but you ignored verse 23 "and be "renewed" in the spirit of your mind," where the Greek word "ἀνανεοῦσθαι" which has the embedded Greek Root word G:0365 "from G:0303 and a derivative of G:3501; to renovate, i.e. reform: –– KJV - renew." So Paul is telling us in this verse that we need to renovate our "minds" by refurbishing our spirit.

Now in verse 24 where Paul goes on to speak of our need put on he states: - "Put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." but the Grek word he uses is "καινὸν" which has the embedded Greek Root Word G:2537 "of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G:3501 is properly so with respect to age: –– KJV - new." However, I believe that Paul is telling us to "Put on the refurbished self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." In other word put what has been renewed in the spirit of our mind into practice in our lives.

Let us look at 2 Corinthians 5:17 and how it should be understood: - "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a refurbished creation; the old things/self have/has passed/faded away; behold, all things have become refreshed.

Jesus in the telling of the parable of the "New {neos} wine in the renewed {kainos} wineskins" confirms this understanding. Even a new {neos} wineskin can be hard and brittle and must be refreshed/refurbished like an old wineskin which is oiled and waxed so that it is capable of holding the new {Neos} wine without bursting.

Even with the best of intentions, we all get our understandings wrong.

Shalom

 

[Peterlag]

I am sorry but what is the "this" that I am unable to see?

Galatians 6:8 is being suggested here by others that a Christian that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption. A human that reaps corruption is a non-Christian. The Catholics were the first to come up with this confession of sins, which is why I mention them.

Galatians 6:8
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
That would be the guy without spirit.

but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
That would be the guy with spirit.

 

[Peterlag]

Ah, Tulipbee, you are stumbling around like a bumble bee not understanding what it is that Paul is telling us to do.

You quoted Eph 4:24 to support your POV but you ignored verse 23 "and be "renewed" in the spirit of your mind," where the Greek word "ἀνανεοῦσθαι" which has the embedded Greek Root word G:0365 "from G:0303 and a derivative of G:3501; to renovate, i.e. reform: –– KJV - renew." So Paul is telling us in this verse that we need to renovate our "minds" by refurbishing our spirit.

Now in verse 24 where Paul goes on to speak of our need put on he states: - "Put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." but the Grek word he uses is "καινὸν" which has the embedded Greek Root Word G:2537 "of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G:3501 is properly so with respect to age: –– KJV - new." However, I believe that Paul is telling us to "Put on the refurbished self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." In other word put what has been renewed in the spirit of our mind into practice in our lives.

Let us look at 2 Corinthians 5:17 and how it should be understood: - "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a refurbished creation; the old things/self have/has passed/faded away; behold, all things have become refreshed.

Jesus in the telling of the parable of the "New {neos} wine in the renewed {kainos} wineskins" confirms this understanding. Even a new {neos} wineskin can be hard and brittle and must be refreshed/refurbished like an old wineskin which is oiled and waxed so that it is capable of holding the new {Neos} wine without bursting.

Even with the best of intentions, we all get our understandings wrong.

Shalom

Ah, Tulipbee, you are stumbling around like a bumble bee not understanding what it is that Paul is telling us to do.

You quoted Eph 4:24 to support your POV but you ignored verse 23 "and be "renewed" in the spirit of your mind," where the Greek word "ἀνανεοῦσθαι" which has the embedded Greek Root word G:0365 "from G:0303 and a derivative of G:3501; to renovate, i.e. reform: –– KJV - renew." So Paul is telling us in this verse that we need to renovate our "minds" by refurbishing our spirit.

Now in verse 24 where Paul goes on to speak of our need put on he states: - "Put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." but the Grek word he uses is "καινὸν" which has the embedded Greek Root Word G:2537 "of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G:3501 is properly so with respect to age: –– KJV - new." However, I believe that Paul is telling us to "Put on the refurbished self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." In other word put what has been renewed in the spirit of our mind into practice in our lives.

Let us look at 2 Corinthians 5:17 and how it should be understood: - "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a refurbished creation; the old things/self have/has passed/faded away; behold, all things have become refreshed.

Jesus in the telling of the parable of the "New {neos} wine in the renewed {kainos} wineskins" confirms this understanding. Even a new {neos} wineskin can be hard and brittle and must be refreshed/refurbished like an old wineskin which is oiled and waxed so that it is capable of holding the new {Neos} wine without bursting.

Even with the best of intentions, we all get our understandings wrong.

Shalom

I wonder if what is written in Romans goes without saying because the culture of the time just knew that the renewed mind can only be done in the spirit as we see in Ephesians.

Perhaps it's not...
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

But rather...
be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Most believers have been taught it's them, their mind, and therefore their flesh that should be involved in renewing their mind. I'm thinking it's the spirit of my mind that comes with a bit of an already renewed mind as I just get out of the way. Perhaps this is why a guy like Paul could say...

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:"

 

[amigo de christo]

I would like to know more about the new nature that God gave us. The verse in question is from 2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV...

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Anybody have detailed data on this from working the Word?

I'm not looking for opinions on this subject based on how one might feel at the moment.

The question is , what was our old nature . aka SIN NATURE . so the new nature , WELL it wont be about embracing
or accepting the sin nature . THE NEW MAN , THAT BE the SPIRIT of THE LORD . giving us a new nature
a nature that loveth TRUTH , not sin and inquity . BIG CHANGE occurs in a born again lamb .

 

[quietthinker]

What is the new nature?​

That which does not hate because of ethnicity, religion or class......in fact, that which is opposed to any flavour of oppression.

 

[Peterlag]

The question is , what was our old nature . aka SIN NATURE . so the new nature , WELL it wont be about embracing
or accepting the sin nature . THE NEW MAN , THAT BE the SPIRIT of THE LORD . giving us a new nature
a nature that loveth TRUTH , not sin and inquity . BIG CHANGE occurs in a born again lamb .

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

 

[Tulipbee]

Here's a bit more for you Bible fans...

What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

The verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, is talking about the "righteousness of God in him." It's the "in him" that nobody seems to be able to understand. This whole thing functions "in him." It's in Christ and therefore in the new nature that is mentioned just a few verses above this in verse 17 where it says "new creature:" It's not that we do not sin in our old man nature. It's that we do not sin in the new man that we are told to put on. The churches have destroyed this idea by teaching we put on the new man by following the teachings of Jesus as we walk in our flesh.

In the book of Colossians, we read "putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:" We did not put it off. It was the circumcision of Christ. Two verses later we read "together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;..." Again, it's "in him" or "with him." I also want to get the book of Hebrews in here where we see Christ offered himself once "for this he did once" and not like the high priest who offered up the sacrifice daily. The Lord Christ "after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;..."

Ah, Peterlag, we're diving into the biblical maze, and your verses from Romans have given us a feast richer than a theological buffet. Let's keep our spirits cheerful and bones uncrushed, for as Proverbs 17:22 says, "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

Your mention of Romans 3:20 is like a plot twist – we're all in the same boat, floating differently. And the divine mind game in Romans 6, where Christ died unto sin, has us reckoning ourselves dead to sin. It's not about our broken selves but dancing through life with Jesus Christ as our partner.

Now, the tug of war between law and grace, the ultimate escape clause in "sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace." And the freedom from sin in "Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness" – quite the divine plot twist indeed!

Now, let's delve into the seventh chapter of Romans and the spiritual war believers face when they think the Law applies to them. Your insights about living in the spirit and being dead to the Law are like theological acrobatics. Romans 8's revelation on overcoming this issue by faith in Christ's perfect work adds a dynamic twist to our cosmic dance.

The "righteousness of God in him" from 2 Corinthians 5:21 and the "in him" concept are like dance steps that nobody can seem to fully grasp. The idea of putting off the body of sins through the circumcision of Christ, and the forgiveness of trespasses "in him" from Colossians, adds complexity to our theological dance.

Your move to the book of Hebrews, highlighting Christ's once-for-all sacrifice, is like a grand finale, where the Lord Christ, having offered one sacrifice for sins forever, takes a seat at the right hand of God – a theological encore that echoes through the cosmic dancefloor.

So, Peterlag, let's keep the theological banter light, the laughter hearty, and continue dancing through the intricate tapestry of biblical truths. May our cosmic dance bring joy to the theological ballroom!