What is the new nature?

[Tulipbee]

Ah, Tulipbee, you are stumbling around like a bumble bee not understanding what it is that Paul is telling us to do.

You quoted Eph 4:24 to support your POV but you ignored verse 23 "and be "renewed" in the spirit of your mind," where the Greek word "ἀνανεοῦσθαι" which has the embedded Greek Root word G:0365 "from G:0303 and a derivative of G:3501; to renovate, i.e. reform: –– KJV - renew." So Paul is telling us in this verse that we need to renovate our "minds" by refurbishing our spirit.

Now in verse 24 where Paul goes on to speak of our need put on he states: - "Put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." but the Grek word he uses is "καινὸν" which has the embedded Greek Root Word G:2537 "of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while G:3501 is properly so with respect to age: –– KJV - new." However, I believe that Paul is telling us to "Put on the refurbished self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." In other word put what has been renewed in the spirit of our mind into practice in our lives.

Let us look at 2 Corinthians 5:17 and how it should be understood: - "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a refurbished creation; the old things/self have/has passed/faded away; behold, all things have become refreshed.

Jesus in the telling of the parable of the "New {neos} wine in the renewed {kainos} wineskins" confirms this understanding. Even a new {neos} wineskin can be hard and brittle and must be refreshed/refurbished like an old wineskin which is oiled and waxed so that it is capable of holding the new {Neos} wine without bursting.

Even with the best of intentions, we all get our understandings wrong.

Shalom

Ah, Jay Ross, the theologian with a linguistic flair, navigating the biblical seas like a seasoned captain! Here we are in the comedic voyage through the renewal of the mind, Ephesians 4:24 style, with a dash of Hebrew spice for that extra divine flavor.
Your insight into the Greek roots and the call to "ἀνανεοῦσθαι" is like deciphering the ancient scrolls of comedic wisdom. Paul, the divine comedian, urging us to renovate our minds, giving a theological nod to spiritual home improvement – a divine DIY project!
And as we put on the "καινὸν" self, your linguistic acumen unveils a divine wardrobe malfunction – not just "new" but "refreshed" and "refurbished." It's like Paul is the heavenly fashion consultant, urging us to strut our spiritual stuff with renewed minds and refreshed selves.
Now, the parable of the "New {neos} wine in the renewed {kainos} wineskins" takes center stage in our biblical comedy club. Your interpretation, likening even the "neos" wineskin to a potential burst hazard without proper refurbishing, adds a touch of vineyard humor to our cosmic journey.
So, Jay Ross, the bumble bee might be stumbling, but it's a divine dance of linguistic elegance. Shalom to the refurbished minds and the heavenly punchlines of biblical comedy!

 

[amadeus]

Galatians 6:8 is being suggested here by others that a Christian that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption. A human that reaps corruption is a non-Christian. The Catholics were the first to come up with this confession of sins, which is why I mention them.

Galatians 6:8
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
That would be the guy without spirit.

but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
That would be the guy with spirit.

Thank you for the clarification. I believe that a person who has received the Spirit of God is able to quench the Spirit within. This is when he gets himself into trouble with God. The Spirit a person receives has work to do within that person. So long as the person does not hinder the Spirit... the work goes on overcoming all that stands between that person and God. Jesus overcame it all for himself as a man and he opened the Way for other men.

By means of the Holy Spirit we are able to walk along the Way that Jesus walked until we have overcome all that he overcame. What did he overcome in himself? He overcame the world of temptation of the man Jesus:

Joh 16:33

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1jo 2:16

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Are we still tempted by these three things? "The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life? If we are... then, I believe, the Holy Spirit has work to do in us. When Jesus had overcome the world of his own temptations, where was he then?

Joh 17:11

And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

He was no longer tempted to sin even though the physical suffering and death on the cross was still before him... his cup to drink.
But, we indeed, until we have by the power of the Holy Spirit overcome as Jesus overcame, are still in the world of temptations...

And some the promises to overcomers:

Re 2:7

...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Re 2:11

...He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Re 2:17

...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Re 2:26

And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Re 3:5

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Re 3:12

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 

[marks]

Everyone has... even those that lie and say they have literally been perfect after getting saved and have never made even one sin or one mistake after getting saved.

I'm sorry, maybe I've been confused, but haven't you been one of those "sinless" proclaimers??

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

I'm disappointed because I had hopped some of you Bible scholars would have shed some new light on the "new nature" and instead you have either not understood the question or have dragged me back down into the sin nature. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures. The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives.

We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ. It’s dead and gone because it does not exist anymore. We become totally new in our spirit when we are born again, and this is how our old nature has been completely changed. This is not something that has yet to happen or has to happen over and over. It’s a done deal because in our new, born-again spirit, we are dead to sin. And so our sin nature is dead and gone, but it left behind a body that has a carnal mind, and therefore it will still function as programmed until we reprogram it.

It's what the New Testament calls the "renewed mind" when our lives are transformed by the process of reprogramming our thoughts. Our minds are similar to computers in the sense they can be programmed, and once programmed, they will continue to function as programmed until we reprogram them. And this is what Romans is talking about when it states we should renew our minds. Our old sin nature programmed our minds how to walk by the flesh when we were born in sin.

 

[amigo de christo]

We undergo a miraculous exchange at the center of our being once we have the spirit of Christ. Who we were in Adam is no longer there. We become a new person because we are now a child of God who is in Christ. The key event causing this exchange is a death, burial, and resurrection with Christ. This miraculous exchange is not figurative or symbolic, but literal and actual.

The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real. So what happens to the old self that was in Adam? The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

the old self serves sin . Ever wonder why paul says i die daily .
The flesh and its nature is still present and it will try and still produce thoughts contrary to GOD .
Its just WHO we gonna serve , the flesh or the SPIRIT that bids us to NOT HEED such thoughts that the flesh still produces .
Exactly . SIN is still sin . and who we obey STILL MATTERS . just a friendly reminder .

 

[Jay Ross]

Ah, Jay Ross, the theologian with a linguistic flair, navigating the biblical seas like a seasoned captain! Here we are in the comedic voyage through the renewal of the mind, Ephesians 4:24 style, with a dash of Hebrew spice for that extra divine flavor.
Your insight into the Greek roots and the call to "ἀνανεοῦσθαι" is like deciphering the ancient scrolls of comedic wisdom. Paul, the divine comedian, urging us to renovate our minds, giving a theological nod to spiritual home improvement – a divine DIY project!
And as we put on the "καινὸν" self, your linguistic acumen unveils a divine wardrobe malfunction – not just "new" but "refreshed" and "refurbished." It's like Paul is the heavenly fashion consultant, urging us to strut our spiritual stuff with renewed minds and refreshed selves.
Now, the parable of the "New {neos} wine in the renewed {kainos} wineskins" takes center stage in our biblical comedy club. Your interpretation, likening even the "neos" wineskin to a potential burst hazard without proper refurbishing, adds a touch of vineyard humor to our cosmic journey.
So, Jay Ross, the bumble bee might be stumbling, but it's a divine dance of linguistic elegance. Shalom to the refurbished minds and the heavenly punchlines of biblical comedy!

Thanks for showing your understanding. LOL

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I would like to know more about the new nature that God gave us. The verse in question is from 2 Corinthians 5:17 NIV...

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!

Anybody have detailed data on this from working the Word?

I'm not looking for opinions on this subject based on how one might feel at the moment.

Simply put, we are a new creature. We have been born anew and instead of being conformed to Adam we are being transformed into the image of Jesus.

 

[Peterlag]

the old self serves sin . Ever wonder why paul says i die daily .
The flesh and its nature is still present and it will try and still produce thoughts contrary to GOD .
Its just WHO we gonna serve , the flesh or the SPIRIT that bids us to NOT HEED such thoughts that the flesh still produces .
Exactly . SIN is still sin . and who we obey STILL MATTERS . just a friendly reminder .

No I never wondered why Paul say he dies daily because we all do. I know this comes as a complete shock to many of you who have been indoctrinated in the-old-nature-versus-the-new-nature theology. Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

Romans 6:2
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The Christians of today believe they are alive to sin and it's with much effort, frustration, and failure that they battle this sin nature the rest of their lives.

Romans 6:3
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ. It’s dead and gone because it does not exist anymore. We become totally new in our spirit when we are born again, and this is how our old nature has been completely changed. Our minds are similar to computers in the sense they can be programmed, and once programmed, they will continue to function as programmed until we reprogram them. And this is what Romans is talking about when it states we should renew our minds. Our old sin nature programmed our minds how to walk by the flesh when we were born in sin.

 

[marks]

We experience a death to our old sin nature once we are baptized into Christ. It’s dead and gone because it does not exist anymore. We become totally new in our spirit when we are born again, and this is how our old nature has been completely changed. Our minds are similar to computers in the sense they can be programmed, and once programmed, they will continue to function as programmed until we reprogram them. And this is what Romans is talking about when it states we should renew our minds. Our old sin nature programmed our minds how to walk by the flesh when we were born in sin.

Good description!

Sometimes that programming can be bad, and deep, just the same, we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

Good description!

Sometimes that programming can be bad, and deep, just the same, we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Much love!

It’s not in the process of becoming new because it’s already as pure and perfect as it can be. This is not something that has yet to happen or has to happen over and over. It’s a done deal because in our new, born-again spirit, we are dead to sin. And so our sin nature is dead and gone, but it left behind a body that has a carnal mind, and therefore it will still function as programmed until we reprogram it. It's what the New Testament calls the "renewed mind" when our lives are transformed by the process of reprogramming our thoughts.

Therefore, victory in the Christian life is as simple as renewing our minds to who we are and what we have already received in Christ. It’s not the struggle of two natures inside of us. We will continue to struggle with sin if we see ourselves as old sinners saved by grace. And so it's also true we will manifest the change that took place in our new nature when we understand we are not old sinners saved by grace. Thus, we act like being part of the senses world when we see ourselves as being part of the senses world. We act like being part of the Christian world when we see ourselves as being part of Christ—i.e., in our born-again spirits.

 

[marks]

It’s not in the process of becoming new because it’s already as pure and perfect as it can be.

Yes and no.

Romans 12:1-2 KJV
1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Transformed here is passive voice, it is happening to us.

Colossians 3:9-10 KJV
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Renewed here is also passive voice present tense, happening to us, ungoing, now.

The way I understand this, we have the new mind of Christ, which is in the process of being imprinted in our brains now, like overwriting the old program.

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

Yes and no.

Romans 12:1-2 KJV
1) I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2) And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Transformed here is passive voice, it is happening to us.

Colossians 3:9-10 KJV
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Renewed here is also passive voice present tense, happening to us, ungoing, now.

The way I understand this, we have the new mind of Christ, which is in the process of being imprinted in our brains now, like overwriting the old program.

Much love!

Let's take them one at a time. Romans 12:2 first...

You believe the spirit of Christ needs to learn by us changing our thinking. Or you think the spirit of Christ is trying to change us.

I believe the renewed mind is when we realize who we are and what we have already received in Christ. It’s not the struggle of two natures inside of us. We will continue to struggle with sin if we see ourselves as old sinners saved by grace. And so it's also true we will manifest the change that took place in our new nature when we understand we are not old sinners saved by grace. Thus, we act like being part of the senses world when we see ourselves as being part of the senses world. We act like being part of the Christian world when we see ourselves as being part of Christ—i.e., in our born-again spirits.

 

[Peterlag]

Good description!

Sometimes that programming can be bad, and deep, just the same, we are being transformed by the renewing of our minds.

Much love!

I wonder if what is written in Romans goes without saying because the culture of the time just knew that the renewed mind can only be done in the spirit as we see in Ephesians.

Perhaps it's not...
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

But rather...
be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Most believers have been taught it's them, their mind, and therefore their flesh that should be involved in renewing their mind. I'm thinking it's the spirit of my mind that comes with a bit of an already renewed mind as I just get out of the way. Perhaps this is why a guy like Paul could say...

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:"

 

[marks]

I wonder if what is written in Romans goes without saying because the culture of the time just knew that the renewed mind can only be done in the spirit as we see in Ephesians.

Perhaps it's not...
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.

But rather...
be renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Most believers have been taught it's them, their mind, and therefore their flesh that should be involved in renewing their mind. I'm thinking it's the spirit of my mind that comes with a bit of an already renewed mind as I just get out of the way. Perhaps this is why a guy like Paul could say...

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me:"

I wouldn't dispute over "be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind", that's directly from Romans.

The way I understand this, our brains are imprinted with corruption, and living in corruption just does more of that. When we are reborn, we start to live according to the Spirit, which begins to rewrite our brains into a better state.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 KJV
17) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18) But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Beholding as in a glass . . . that is, a mirror. What do we see in the mirror? Ourselves. How do we see the glory of the Lord in ourselves? I think when we are walking in the Spirit, when God is working His work in and through us. As we see God moving in us, that makes us more like Him. That is the renewing of the mind, which, as our minds are renewed - the dimishing of the old patterns, and imprinting new patterns - our lives become different.

I'm of the opinion that we are to do our best to obey God, to live pleasing and honoring to Him, and He works in our minds to renew them. I think that reading and meditating on Scripture renews our minds. I think that doing the works the Spirit leads us to renews our minds. Praying, praising, just choosing to trust, these renew our minds.

Colossians 3:9-10 KJV
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Learning about Jesus renews our minds. We learn about Him through the Bible and through devotional activities, and through serving, and simply by being in a relationship with Him.

Much love!

 

[Peterlag]

I wouldn't dispute over "be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind", that's directly from Romans.

The way I understand this, our brains are imprinted with corruption, and living in corruption just does more of that. When we are reborn, we start to live according to the Spirit, which begins to rewrite our brains into a better state.

2 Corinthians 3:17-18 KJV
17) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18) But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Beholding as in a glass . . . that is, a mirror. What do we see in the mirror? Ourselves. How do we see the glory of the Lord in ourselves? I think when we are walking in the Spirit, when God is working His work in and through us. As we see God moving in us, that makes us more like Him. That is the renewing of the mind, which, as our minds are renewed - the dimishing of the old patterns, and imprinting new patterns - our lives become different.

I'm of the opinion that we are to do our best to obey God, to live pleasing and honoring to Him, and He works in our minds to renew them. I think that reading and meditating on Scripture renews our minds. I think that doing the works the Spirit leads us to renews our minds. Praying, praising, just choosing to trust, these renew our minds.

Colossians 3:9-10 KJV
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

Learning about Jesus renews our minds. We learn about Him through the Bible and through devotional activities, and through serving, and simply by being in a relationship with Him.

Much love!

I'm with you right up until you quoted Colossians 3:10. For me at my level I'm no longer reading the Bible to know what's God's Word. Colossians 3:10 is me walking in the spirit. It's the same as having fellowship with Jesus Christ, which is also part of having the mind of Christ. Living in Christ is the same as being strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. There's a verse where Jesus says without me you can do nothing. Well, I'm never without him.

So I can continue to say I have the mind of Christ, and therefore can stand fast in the Lord, whereby I can do all things through Christ. Why? Because as I have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so I can walk in him. I would also like to note that both faith and love are in Christ Jesus, which means in my spirit because it's the spirit of Christ that is in me. And yes, this is why as he is so am I in this world. When the spirit of Christ and I come together in any agreement, then my prayer is answered whereby I can then say thus said the Lord.

 

[Peterlag]

Simply put, we are a new creature. We have been born anew and instead of being conformed to Adam we are being transformed into the image of Jesus.

Is there a verse that says we are being transformed into the image of Jesus? Anywhere? New Testament, Old Testament, Gospels?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Is there a verse that says we are being transformed into the image of Jesus? Anywhere? New Testament, Old Testament, Gospels?

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Conformed is symmorphos which means to have the same form as another.

 

[Tulipbee]

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Conformed is symmorphos which means to have the same form as another.

Ronald Nolette dropping truth bombs like it's biblical mic drop time! Romans 8:29 says it all – we're in for a cosmic makeover, destined to rock the same form as Jesus. It's like spiritual glow-up goals, folks! #SpiritualGlowUp #BiblicalMakeover

 

[marks]

For me at my level I'm no longer reading the Bible to know what's God's Word.

One of my great joys is swimming in the endless depths of Scripture. I don't expect that I will ever in this life tire of reading, studying, meditating on Scripture, as a part of my relationship and devotion to God.

Colossians 3:9-11 KJV
9) Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10) And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
11) Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Considering God is infinitely transcendant, do we really think we will learn all there is to learn about Him, ever? Think this is what will keep eternity eternally fresh for us, coming into every deeper knowledge and relationship with God.

And as deep as I go into Scripture, I find it goes ever deeper still.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Conformed is symmorphos which means to have the same form as another.

. . . have put on Christ . . . til Christ be formed within you . . . that Jesus might be manifested in your mortal body . . . shall also bear the image of the heavenly . . . are being transformed into the same image . . . I think this is all through the New Testament.

Much love!