What is the one true Church?

[Grailhunter]

HOGWASH.

As I have told you before – your Scriptural ignorance has been your folly during our exchange. It’s NOT simply a Christian “custom” – it is a BIBLICAL edict. You total LACK of ability to comprehend what is written.

Gen 2:24
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his WIFE (not “girlfriend), and they shall become one flesh.

Hebr. 13:4
Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

1 Cori. 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

1 Cor. 7:2
But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.


Merriam-Webster’s Collegiate dictionary
Fornication
for·ni·ca·tion ˌfȯr-nə-ˈkā-shən
Synonyms of fornication
1) sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other

Do your homework before embarrassing yourself any further . . .

Fornication is not a biblical word it is scam.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Fornication is not a biblical word it is scam.

Massive cop-out.
Ummmm, "Bible" is not a Biblical word, either.

"Fornication" is a definition of a VERY Biblical concept - as I amply sjpowed you with Scripture
The only "scam" here has been your posts . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

HOGWASH.

As I have told you before – your Scriptural ignorance has been your folly during our exchange. It’s NOT simply a Christian “custom” – it is a BIBLICAL edict. You total LACK of ability to comprehend what is written.

Gen 2:24
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his WIFE (not “girlfriend), and they shall become one flesh.

Hebr. 13:4
Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

1 Cori. 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

1 Cor. 7:2
But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

You have a bad habit of putting words in people mouth.....saying they said something they did not. Don't think people here do not notice that.

I did not say that the Bible has bad things to say about women, sex, or marriage, I said that the Catholic Church had little use for women, sex, and marriage. Do you think what these Fathers and Doctors of the Catholic Church said showed a positive attitude for women, sex, and marriage? I think what these guys believed lead the Catholic Church down the path of evil atrocities.

Origen, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, and St. Thomas Aquinas, these men had very negative views towards women and taught that anything to do with sex was straight from Satan. Any type of sexuality, beauty, feelings, romance, love, or pleasure were the worst of sins, and celibacy, ugly, sorrow, suffering, and pain were Godly. Romanic love in itself was considered wrong. They believed marital sex was a sin even though they acknowledged that it was a necessity. An insane conundrum of logic. A man’s desire for his wife was considered lust and the only time marital sex should be performed was to have children and after that sex should stop. Origen actually castrated himself because he thought his penis was tempting him. Ouch! This is after a slue of sexual issues and his statements against the evils of women and sex.

Even though St. Jerome obviously preferred the company of women, (Because the company he kept and most of his followers were women.) He still had this to say about the status of women: “….it is contrary to the order of nature, or of law, that women should speak in the assembly of men……and man should be commanded to love his wife, whereas the wife should fear her husband.” and he also said “Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.” .....Written by St. Jerome

“Because Eve caused the fall of Man she and all women were cursed to painfully deliver children between urine and feces.” ....Written by St. Jerome

“He who ardently loves his own wife is an adulterer.” ....Written by St. Jerome

On the topic of sexual desire Augustine had this to say....“Who can control this when its appetite is aroused? No one! In the very movement of this appetite, then, it has no ‘mode’ that responds to the decisions of the will. But when those who delight in this pleasure are not moved to it at their own will, whether they confine themselves to lawful or transgress to a unlawful pleasures; but sometimes this lust importunes them in spite of themselves, and sometimes fails them when they desire to feel it, so that though lust rages in the mind, it stirs not in the body .....Written by St. Augustine

“This diabolical excitement of the genitals…” (As St. Augustine refers to the act of sex.) …is evidence of Adam’s original sin which is now transmitted “from the mother’s womb,” tainting all human beings with sin, and leaving them incapable of choosing good over evil, or determining their own destiny.” ....Written by St. Augustine

“We must conclude, that a husband is meant to rule over his wife as the spirit rules over the flesh. and “the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.” ....Written by St. Augustine

Referring to the Hell that awaits women, Augustine in his famous Latin sermon ''Ad Fratres in Eremitate Sermo LXIX.'' He describes how Satan seized the damned female and commanded his fellow devils to “pierce her eyes with forks as she enjoyed looking at unclean things, pierce her mouth as she used them for blasphemy, pierce her heart, as she did not harbor piety, compassion, clemency, and forgiveness there, pierce her hands with the heavy fork forged in Hell since she reached with them at things unclean and did not use them to distribute alms and help her neighbors, use the fiery forks to pierce her legs that she used to dance and meet her lovers.' Then to the gates of Hell she is carried and then '"out steps a hideous, horrible dragon, always ready to devour sinners. The dragon inserts the female into his mouth, full of stench. After chewing and digesting its prey, the dragon vomits the female into a fiery lake, where millions of other sinners wait for their trial by our Lord." .....Written by St. Augustine

”..marriage is a crime against God, because it changed the state of virginity that God gave every man and woman at birth....Marriage is a prostitution of the members of Christ, and married people ought to blush at the state in which they live.” Written by St. Ambrose

In the year 553 A.D. At a Council of bishops in Macon, religious leaders debate and voted on whether or not females had souls. By a narrow margin the Bishops decide that females have souls. Like it was their choice.

Penitential regulation laid down in the 7th century by Theodore, Bishop of Canterbury, forbade menstruating women to take communion or even enter the church. At the French Synod of Meraux, menstruating women were specifically forbidden to come to church

We move forward to the year 940 A.D. A well-respected religious leader named Odo, who was the leader of the Monks of Cluny, wrote, “To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure.” And considered “….the beauty of a woman the greatest of snares.”

For this reason the hatred of women, sex, and marriage became popular in the Catholic Church. It is not only the wrong interpretations of the scriptures it has caused things that Satan would applaud.

 

[Grailhunter]

Massive cop-out.
Ummmm, "Bible" is not a Biblical word, either.

"Fornication" is a definition of a VERY Biblical concept - as I amply sjpowed you with Scripture
The only "scam" here has been your posts . . .

Could not be more wrong! The word fornication is not in the scriptures and is a scam perpetuated by those that hate sex. And you are defending it....that is not a surprise.

The evolution of the word fornication

As far as a Christian concept it is not in the scriptures. So it is not Christian, it is not biblical being strictly a disconnected false belief.

The Greek word porneia means sex, prostitute or associated with prostitutes. Which was not a negative term in the Greco-Roman culture, but of course the Christian religion thought differently. The New Testament was written mostly in Greek, a Pagan Language. When the Apostles were writing the New Testament they were tasked with using a Pagan language that did not reflect Christian morals. So the Christians adjusted the words and definitions to convey their thoughts. There are variances to the Greek word porneia in the scriptures that define various specific sexual activities….all of which Christianity correctly considers sinful.

The false beliefs associated with the word fornication was smuggled in Christianity a long long time ago. If you noticed there was no wedding ceremony or vows in Eden. And then you can read the rest of the Bible and you will not find a requirement for wedding ceremonies or vows. Yep! That is right the Bible does not state a requirement for a wedding ceremony, Old or New Testament. People formed marriages as God described it… For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2:24 Neither the Old or New Testament states a requirement for wedding ceremonies to be married. It was actually the Protestants that first required a wedding ceremony to be married, in the 1500’s. History of weddings … another long story. So the common definition of fornication….that is two unmarried people having sex is a sin…. would not apply to the Bible or early Christianity in anyway because two single people having sex was how they formed marriages.

Some examples that you will see for fornication.
noun
πορνεία
prostitution, whoring, harlotry, whoredom,

συνουσία
fornication, coition, intercourse, copulation

From the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance
illicit sexual intercourse adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. sexual intercourse with close relatives
But Fornication is not a translational error it is a non-biblical word that made its way into the 16th and 17th century translations of the Bibles as a scam....with an intent to deceive people and demonize sex.

When the Greek text was translated into the Latin Vulgate, (circa 404 AD) various Greek words for sexual immoralities were translated as fornicatio, and so variants of the Greek word porneia were lumped into the word fornicatio. Then translated into the English word fornication and was used in the original Tyndale, Geneva, and King James Version of the Bible.

Porneia in the Greek society is mostly a reference to sex or prostitution which was not wrong in their culture. For example pornography, comes from an ancient Greek word that means writings or paintings of sex and or prostitutes and many Roman homes had murals of nudes, sex acts and or prostitutes on their walls and floors and bathing areas.

But in the actual scriptures the Greek word Porneia and its variances appear several times. In all cases the Christian writers were using it as some form of sexual immorality. And you will see this in modern translations where they use the phrase sexual immorality instead of the word fornication to lump all these words together.

Examples:
πορνείας·… porneias … Sexual immorality
πορνείᾳ … porneiai … Sexual immorality in the plural
πορνεῦσαι … To commit sexual immorality involving sexual acts
πορνείαν … Idolatry involving sexual acts
πόρνος … A person that practices sexual immorality
πόρνοι … Refering to as a group of the sexually immoral
πορνεῖαι … inflectional, more or less dirty thoughts

Appearing in these scriptures….
Matthew 5:32, 5:19, Mark 7:21, John 8:4, Acts 15:20, 5:29, 21:25, Romans 1:29* 1st Corinthians 5:1, 5:9, 5:10, 6:13, 6:18, 7:2, 10:8, 2nd Corinthians 12:21, Galatians 5:19, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, 1st Thessalonians 4:3, Jude 1:7, Revelation 2:14, 2:14, 2:20, 2:21, 9:21, 14:8, 17:2, 17:4, 18:3, 18:19, 19:2

The evolution of the word fornication….

The root of Fornicate comes from 5th century Latin, the term fornix means arch or vaulted ceiling. In Rome, it was known that prostitutes would wait for their customers out of the hot sun or rain in areas that had cover…vaulted ceilings….fornix. The Latin word fornix became a euphemism for brothels and the Latin verb fornicare referred to a man visiting a brothel. Meaning a man being serviced by prostitutes.

Trying to make a long story short here.....The earlier versions of the Bible translated all the variances of sexual immorality and all the scenarios thereof into the word fornication. Then they included two unmarried people having sex into its definition as sexual immorality. There is no definition in the scriptures that indicate two unmarried people having sex is a sin.... because that is how they formed marriages. For modern Christians this deception is easily perpetuated because Christians just assume that people in the Bible had wedding ceremonies.

Of course there are instances where two unmarried people having sex can be a sin. Casual sex...and one night stands, prostitutes, general whore mongering, carousing etc. Modern more accurate translations generally use the phrase sexual immorality instead of fornication.

The need for wedding ceremonies was something that God taught us after the Bible. Something that is a very good thing. It is the right thing to do. Like I said, it is a long story. But I am very big on weddings. The bigger the better.

The sin that the word fornication causes is the sin of falsely accusing people, condemning, judging, turning people away from Christianity. Shacking up! Living in sin! Couples that are together and are monogamous have not sinned. Of course we want them to have a wedding ceremony. That is why they should be welcomed in the church, to fellowship with Christians so that they may see it is the right thing to do.

As time went on Christianity developed a very negative view towards women and sexuality and the word fornication is just one of the reasons for that and it actually lead to some horrific atrocities at the hands of the church.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have a bad habit of putting words in people mouth.....saying they said something they did not. Don't think people here do not notice that.

I did not say that the Bible has bad things to say about women, sex, or marriage, I said that the Catholic Church had little use for women, sex, and marriage. Do you think what these Fathers and Doctors of the Catholic Church said showed a positive attitude for women, sex, and marriage? I think what these guys believed lead the Catholic Church down the path of evil atrocities.

Origen, St. Jerome, St. Augustine, St. Ambrose, and St. Thomas Aquinas, these men had very negative views towards women and taught that anything to do with sex was straight from Satan. Any type of sexuality, beauty, feelings, romance, love, or pleasure were the worst of sins, and celibacy, ugly, sorrow, suffering, and pain were Godly. Romanic love in itself was considered wrong. They believed marital sex was a sin even though they acknowledged that it was a necessity. An insane conundrum of logic. A man’s desire for his wife was considered lust and the only time marital sex should be performed was to have children and after that sex should stop. Origen actually castrated himself because he thought his penis was tempting him. Ouch! This is after a slue of sexual issues and his statements against the evils of women and sex.

Even though St. Jerome obviously preferred the company of women, (Because the company he kept and most of his followers were women.) He still had this to say about the status of women: “….it is contrary to the order of nature, or of law, that women should speak in the assembly of men……and man should be commanded to love his wife, whereas the wife should fear her husband.” and he also said “Nothing is so unclean as a woman in her periods; what she touches she causes to become unclean.” .....Written by St. Jerome

“Because Eve caused the fall of Man she and all women were cursed to painfully deliver children between urine and feces.” ....Written by St. Jerome

“He who ardently loves his own wife is an adulterer.” ....Written by St. Jerome

On the topic of sexual desire Augustine had this to say....“Who can control this when its appetite is aroused? No one! In the very movement of this appetite, then, it has no ‘mode’ that responds to the decisions of the will. But when those who delight in this pleasure are not moved to it at their own will, whether they confine themselves to lawful or transgress to a unlawful pleasures; but sometimes this lust importunes them in spite of themselves, and sometimes fails them when they desire to feel it, so that though lust rages in the mind, it stirs not in the body .....Written by St. Augustine

“This diabolical excitement of the genitals…” (As St. Augustine refers to the act of sex.) …is evidence of Adam’s original sin which is now transmitted “from the mother’s womb,” tainting all human beings with sin, and leaving them incapable of choosing good over evil, or determining their own destiny.” ....Written by St. Augustine

“We must conclude, that a husband is meant to rule over his wife as the spirit rules over the flesh. and “the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh.” ....Written by St. Augustine

Referring to the Hell that awaits women, Augustine in his famous Latin sermon ''Ad Fratres in Eremitate Sermo LXIX.'' He describes how Satan seized the damned female and commanded his fellow devils to “pierce her eyes with forks as she enjoyed looking at unclean things, pierce her mouth as she used them for blasphemy, pierce her heart, as she did not harbor piety, compassion, clemency, and forgiveness there, pierce her hands with the heavy fork forged in Hell since she reached with them at things unclean and did not use them to distribute alms and help her neighbors, use the fiery forks to pierce her legs that she used to dance and meet her lovers.' Then to the gates of Hell she is carried and then '"out steps a hideous, horrible dragon, always ready to devour sinners. The dragon inserts the female into his mouth, full of stench. After chewing and digesting its prey, the dragon vomits the female into a fiery lake, where millions of other sinners wait for their trial by our Lord." .....Written by St. Augustine

”..marriage is a crime against God, because it changed the state of virginity that God gave every man and woman at birth....Marriage is a prostitution of the members of Christ, and married people ought to blush at the state in which they live.” Written by St. Ambrose

In the year 553 A.D. At a Council of bishops in Macon, religious leaders debate and voted on whether or not females had souls. By a narrow margin the Bishops decide that females have souls. Like it was their choice.

Penitential regulation laid down in the 7th century by Theodore, Bishop of Canterbury, forbade menstruating women to take communion or even enter the church. At the French Synod of Meraux, menstruating women were specifically forbidden to come to church

We move forward to the year 940 A.D. A well-respected religious leader named Odo, who was the leader of the Monks of Cluny, wrote, “To embrace a woman is to embrace a sack of manure.” And considered “….the beauty of a woman the greatest of snares.”

For this reason the hatred of women, sex, and marriage became popular in the Catholic Church. It is not only the wrong interpretations of the scriptures it has caused things that Satan would applaud.

And YOU have a very bad habit of exaggerating a over-generalizing the words and wroitings of the Early Church.

NONE of those men you entioned condemned "anything to do with sex as straight from Satan", as YOU falsely claim. Many of the things they believed about sex NOT being efficacious was with regard to themselves, because they made the decision to live a celibate life.

As for the attitudes with regard to manstruating women - these go all the way back to the Old Testament, where a menstruating woman was declared to be "unclean" under the Law. Where did the Lat come from? It came from GOD.

Finally - I find it interesting that you didn't provude a SINGLE source for yoiur "qouotes", so I could provide the proper context for them. Some of them come up empty afer a Google search . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
I have often said that promoting the truth and exposing false beliefs is like that giant ball of twine in Ripley's believe it or not. That thing sat out in the weather for years and unraveling that thing would be quite the task. I have spent my life searching for truth and uncovering false beliefs and lies. Never the less I do not own the truth, it belongs to God, but I believe that Christians deserve to at least hear it. From there it is between them and God. I don't care if they believe LOL that would be too stressful. My duty is to present it, from there they can believe or look it up if they want to know the truth.

 

[Grailhunter]

And YOU have a very bad habit of exaggerating a over-generalizing the words and wroitings of the Early Church.

NONE of those men you entioned condemned "anything to do with sex as straight from Satan", as YOU falsely claim. Many of the things they believed about sex NOT being efficacious was with regard to themselves, because they made the decision to live a celibate life.

As for the attitudes with regard to manstruating women - these go all the way back to the Old Testament, where a menstruating woman was declared to be "unclean" under the Law. Where did the Lat come from? It came from GOD.

Finally - I find it interesting that you didn't provude a SINGLE source for yoiur "qouotes", so I could provide the proper context for them. Some of them come up empty afer a Google search . . .

Single source for my quotes! They are part of Catholic history! The source is from the individuals that I quoted! All you got is denial of the truth. And it is obvious that you are seriously misinformed. I study dozens of denominations.....you can't even get your own right.

Augustine and Thomas Aquinas were very prolific writers....books that are still in print. Amazon or Barnes and Noble would be a good source for them. The rest are a matter of history and their attitudes reflect what the Catholic Church believed and what caused the Catholic Church to do what it did. And again the hand book for the witch-hunts and inquisitions....the Malleus Maleficarum is still in print.

Denying the truth does not erase it or change it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Could not be more wrong! The word fornication is not in the scriptures and is a scam perpetuated by those that hate sex. And you are defending it....that is not a surprise.

The evolution of the word fornication

As far as a Christian concept it is not in the scriptures. So it is not Christian, it is not biblical being strictly a disconnected false belief.

The Greek word porneia means prostitute or associated with prostitutes. Which was not a negative term in the Greco-Roman culture, but of course the Christian religion thought differently. The New Testament was written mostly in Greek, a Pagan Language. When the Apostles were writing the New Testament they were tasked with using a Pagan language that did not reflect Christian morals. So the Christians adjusted the words and definitions to convey their thoughts. There are variances to the Greek word porneia in the scriptures that define various specific sexual activities….all of which Christianity correctly considers sinful.

The false beliefs associated with the word fornication was smuggled in Christianity a long long time ago. If you noticed there was no wedding ceremony or vows in Eden. And then you can read the rest of the Bible you will not find a requirement for wedding ceremonies or vows. Yep! That is right the Bible does not state a requirement for a wedding ceremony, Old or New Testament. People formed marriages as God described it… For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh. Genesis 2:24 Neither the Old or New Testament state a requirement for wedding ceremonies to be married. It was actually the Protestants that first required a wedding ceremony to be married, in the 1500’s. History of weddings … another long story. So the common definition of fornication….that is two unmarried people having sex is a sin…. would not apply to the Bible or early Christianity in anyway because two single people having sex was how they formed marriages.

Some examples that you will see for fornication.
noun
πορνεία
prostitution, whoring, harlotry, whoredom,

συνουσία
fornication, coition, intercourse, copulation

From the Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance
illicit sexual intercourse adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc. sexual intercourse with close relatives
But Fornication is not a translational error it is man-made word that made its way into the 16th and 17th century translations of the Bibles as a scam....with an intent to deceive and demonize sex.

When the Greek text was translated into the Latin Vulgate, (circa 404 AD) various Greek words for sexual immoralities were translated as fornicatio, and so variants of the Greek word porneia were lumped into the word fornicatio. Then translated into the English word fornication and was used in the original Tyndale, Geneva, and King James Version of the Bible.

Porneia in the Greek society is mostly a reference to sex or prostitution which was not wrong in their culture. For example pornography, comes from an ancient Greek word that means writings or paintings of sex and or prostitutes and many Roman homes had murals of nudes, sex acts and or prostitutes on their walls and floors and bathing areas.

But in the actual scriptures the Greek word Porneia and its variances appear several times. In all cases the Christian writers were using it as some form of sexual immorality. And you will see this in modern translations where they use the phrase sexual immorality instead of the word fornication to lump all these words together.

Examples:
πορνείας·… porneias … Sexual immorality
πορνείᾳ … porneiai … Sexual immorality in the plural
πορνεῦσαι … To commit sexual immorality involving sexual acts
πορνείαν … Idolatry involving sexual acts
πόρνος … A person that practices sexual immorality
πόρνοι … Refering to as a group of the sexually immoral
πορνεῖαι … inflectional, more or less dirty thoughts

Appearing in these scriptures….
Matthew 5:32, 5:19, Mark 7:21, John 8:4, Acts 15:20, 5:29, 21:25, Romans 1:29* 1st Corinthians 5:1, 5:9, 5:10, 6:13, 6:18, 7:2, 10:8, 2nd Corinthians 12:21, Galatians 5:19, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, 1st Thessalonians 4:3, Jude 1:7, Revelation 2:14, 2:14, 2:20, 2:21, 9:21, 14:8, 17:2, 17:4, 18:3, 18:19, 19:2

The evolution of the word fornication….

Fornicate comes from 5th century Latin, the term fornix means arch or vaulted ceiling. In Rome, it was known that prostitutes would wait for their customers out of the hot sun or rain in areas that had cover…vaulted ceilings….fornix. The Latin word fornix became a euphemism for brothels and the Latin verb fornicare referred to a man visiting a brothel. Meaning a man being serviced by prostitutes.

Trying to make a long story short here, the earlier versions of the Bible translated all the variances of sexual immorality and all the scenarios thereof into the word fornication. Then they included two unmarried people having sex into its definition. There is no definition in the scriptures that indicate two unmarried people having sex is a sin.... because that is how they formed marriages. For modern Christians this deception is easily perpetuated because Christians just assume that people in the Bible had wedding ceremonies.

Of course there are instances where two unmarried people having sex can be a sin. Casual sex...and one night stands, prostitutes, general whore mongering, carousing etc. Modern more accurate translations generally use the phrase sexual immorality instead of fornication.

The need for wedding ceremonies was something that God taught us after the Bible. Something that is a very good thing. It is the right thing to do. Like I said, it is a long story. But I am very big on weddings. The bigger the better.

The sin that the word fornication causes is the sin of falsely accusing people, condemning, judging, turning people away from Christianity. Shacking up! Living in sin! Couples that are together and are monogamous have not sinned. Of course we want them to have a wedding ceremony. That is why they should be welcomed in the church, to fellowship with Christians so that they may see it is the right thing to do.

As time went on Christianity developed a very negative view towards women and sexuality and the word fornication is just one of the reasons for that and it actually lead to some horrific atrocities at the hands of the church.

Another idiotic amd pointless ruse . . .

You make the moronic assertion that the word "Fornication" is a "man-made" word. Show me a word in ANY languaage that is NOT man-made. I already explained that just because a "word" does not appear in Scripture does NOT mean that the teaching or concept od not there.

Show me the word "Trinity" in Scripture.
Show me the word "Incarnation" in Scripture.
Show me the word "Discipleship" in Scripture.
These words NEVER appear - but the teachins, the concepts are there.

And, as I ALREADY showed you with verses like Heb. 13:4, 1 Cori. 6:18 & 1 Cor. 7:2 - the teachings on fornucation ARE Biblical.

The over-arching theme in our exchange has been the idea that YOU cannot control your sexual urges. Paul recommends marriage for people like YOU who burn with lust.
As I indicated before - maybe a few sessions with a therapist wouldn't hurtm either . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Johnny Appleseed of Truth.
I have often said that promoting the truth and exposing false beliefs is like that giant ball of twine in Ripley's believe it or not. That thing sat out in the weather for years and unraveling that thing would be quite the task. I have spent my life searching for truth and uncovering false beliefs and lies. Never the less I do not own the truth, it belongs to God, but I believe that Christians deserve to at least hear it. From there it is between them and God. I don't care if they believe LOL that would be too stressful. My duty is to present it, from there they can believe or look it up if they want to know the truth.

Perhaps, the "Charles Manson of Truth" is more appropriate in your case . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

ou make the moronic assertion that the word "Fornication" is a "man-made" word. Show me a word in ANY languaage that is NOT man-made.

Well you are right languages are man-made....but not all words are designed to deceive. Not all words are designed to promote lies.

 

[Grailhunter]

I already explained that just because a "word" does not appear in Scripture does NOT mean that the teaching or concept od not there.

Nor does it mean that the concept is represented in the scriptures.
I did not say that theological words that are not in the scriptures are always false.
I said, theological words that are not in the Bible are red flags...which means we need to take a close look at them and their definitions.....because that is the way people have introduce false beliefs into Christianity. Why not use the words that are in the scriptures if your intent is to be accurate and honest?

People have been doing this for centuries. The art of making people believe a lie! It does not matter if it is religion or society. Unleaded gas....Back in the day they said unleaded gas cost more because they had to remove the lead....lol...They did not unlead the gas....they had to add lead to regular gas.

 

[Grailhunter]

Perhaps, the "Charles Manson of Truth" is more appropriate in your case . . .

You so funny! You think you are smart enough to antagonize me? Think again! With both hands!

 

[Grailhunter]

And, as I ALREADY showed you with verses like Heb. 13:4, 1 Cori. 6:18 & 1 Cor. 7:2 - the teachings on fornucation ARE Biblical.

The word fornication is not actually in those scriptures....nor are they talking about two people in love forming a marriage.
They are talking about sexual immorality.
Again find a requirement for a wedding ceremony in the Bible.

 

[Illuminator]

The word fornication is not actually in those scriptures....nor are they talking about two people in love forming a marriage.
They are talking about sexual immorality.
Again find a requirement for a wedding ceremony in the Bible.

The Bible doesn't say that every authentic Christian practice must be explicit in Scripture. Every denomination I can think of has wedding ceremonies.

Then exact method for baptism isn't in the Bible either. You have to back to the first century to find out how exactly baptism was done, and from whom the teachings originated. It was never invented by common Christians, they received it from the Apostles.

If there is no wedding ceremony in the bible, then there is no Wedding Feast in Revelation. You can't see the forest for the trees. Again, the first wedding occurred in Genesis 1, officiated by God Himself.

Christian church involvement in marriage also developed over time. Christianity was birthed and formed (30 AD-200 AD) in the context of the Roman empire and with Judaism in its roots. Marriage continued to have little to do with religion. While Jesus, Paul and other New Testament writes speak about marriage and instruct husbands and wives on how to conduct themselves in marriage, there is no biblical tradition that ties weddings to a church ceremony. Marriage was still a family issue, not an institution. It was private and communal.​

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At the Council of Carthage in 398 A.D., there was an assumption of a priestly prayer or benediction of the wedding ceremony. Early Church Fathers Ignatius and Polycarp both urged a blessing from both parents and clergy over a pending marriage. This is the first sign of any church ceremonial influence. But there is little else for many centuries. Marriage was seen as something outside of the church for the first millennium.​

History of Church Weddings | the Wedding Chaplain

A brief history of church and synagogue weddings.

www.weddingchaplain.com

Furthermore, the Sacrament of Matrimony is present in the exchange of vows, the priest or minister doesn't marry anybody. The bride and groom marry each other, clergy just officiate.

The Torah provides very little guidance with regard to the procedures of a marriage. The method of finding a spouse, the form of the wedding ceremony, and the nature of the marital relationship are all explained in the Talmud.

Marriage in Judaism

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

Betrothal and Nuptial Rites.

MARRIAGE - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

www.jewishencyclopedia.com

Jewish Wedding Ceremony & Traditions​

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/476757/jewish/Jewish-Wedding-Ceremony-Traditions.htm

Why not use the words that are in the scriptures if your intent is to be accurate and honest?

The Bible doesn't demand to use only the words of Scripture to explain authentic practices (tradition). That's for sola scripturists. Literally every heretic in the patristic period thumbed their noses at the Church, and based all their heresies on subjective "Bible alone" theology. You won't be able to hand-cuff BofL by imposing the man made, self-defeating, unbiblical, ahistorical, unworkable premise of sola scriptura. We reject it mainly because it's not explicit in the Bible and it hasn't worked since Luther invented it.

You can't show me where all your anti-women quotes have been incorporated into official Catholic teaching. I suspect you get your lists from radical feminist sources. That's why you don't post your sources with a link.

Let’s give a simple definition of modernism: (The Synthesis of all Heresies)​

it is that ideology which reduces both divine revelation and the supernatural life of grace to being the result of a subjective attitude or tendency on the part of human nature. Modernism thus retains all the vocabulary and external forms of orthodox Church life but reinterprets them along the lines of modern, “subjectivist” philosophy.​

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www.catholic.com

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I suggest you go back to your "Catholic college" and demand a refund on the tuition. Bring a bishop.​

 

[Illuminator]

And again the hand book for the witch-hunts and inquisitions....the Malleus Maleficarum is still in print.

Denying the truth does not erase it or change it.

However, a short time later, Kramer published the book Malleus Maleficarum and used the wording of the Papal bull as a foreword. It gave the impression that the actions and thinking described in the book were condoned and supported by the Pope and the Church.​

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Neither was true as could be seen with the Inquisition denouncing Kramer in 1490 and the book being added to the Index Librorum Prohibitorum (List of Prohibited Books) in by Pope Paul IV in 1559.​

Still harping on your Malleus Maleficarum scam? You are too proud to be corrected. No doubt you will do it again because you think you have a handy bat to beat Catholics with. You are just pounding a malicious malleus drum.
Alexander Hislop's sicko book "The Two Babylons" is still in print too. That doesn't prove its true.

 

[Enoch111]

Alexander Hislop's sicko book "The Two Babylons" is still in print too. That doesn't prove its true.

It is definitely not a "sicko" book. It makes many clear connections between Babylonian and Catholic idolatry.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Bible doesn't say that every authentic Christian practice must be explicit in Scripture. Every denomination I can think of has wedding ceremonies.

The Protestants went to Bible Only as away to get back to the basics. This was not necessarily by Martin Luther's direction. Martin created a wave to reform the Catholic Church......the Church's response was threating. Martin Luther's supporters had their own ideas. The amount of changes that they thought was needed seemed insurmountable.

The path of least resistance.....the easiest way......was just to start over again. Simple idea....get a hold of a Bible and follow its instructions, cut out all the stuff that was not in the Bible......Cut out the saints and the rituals and the papal instructions ....bulls....the power infrastructure of the Church....Cardinals, Bishops, and the Pope and most of all the system, culture, and politics that caused and sustained all of the corruption and atrocities. Another of their objectives was to get the Bible out to the people. This was one of the things that the Catholic Church was not going to tolerate.

This was the line in the sand. One of the core beliefs of the Catholics was that they believed that Christ's Church should be one belief. Anything but one belief was considered a heresy and an enemy of the Church, which usually drew a violent response. The Catholics guarded the Bibles and killed anyone that tried to copy or translate their own Bible or distribute the same. The story of William Tyndale is a good example. Trying to control beliefs and trying to control information.....it is an impossible task and the folly of fools......folly of fools because any attempt to enforce belief control will lead to a whole lot of bloodshed and misery and hate. Then the invention of the Gutenberg printing press occurred and the flood gates were open....no control.

All well and good the Bible was in the hands of the people. And they picked up the Bible and they formed their own beliefs.....and they did not agree with each other and Christ's Church began the process of fracturing into thousands of pieces. The mind set you see here on the forum.....the negative views regarding institutionalized religions....denominations.... attending Church. Worldwide this can mean hundreds of millions of individual of renditions of what the Bible means.....and some think that is a good thing..... Is it? .....

At the same time there were men that wanted to be leaders and get people to believe what they believed and the concept of Protestant denominations was born. But the Protestants did not have enough pieces to the puzzle to come up with a clear picture and people did not agree what the picture was or what it should be. We have more information now on the history, time period, and languages, culture, and circumstances, that the Bible was projected from.....a lot behind the extremely abbreviated account of the first 65 years of Christianity....that the Protestants did not have access to.

The Vatican Library.....how far do those books go back? What the Catholics believe and why they do what they do....a lot of it is in those books.....hundreds.....thousands of Divine events occurring over the centuries that caused the Church to believe what it believed.....some events secret.....only privy to some. The Protestants didn't and don't have access to this and are not real big on forming beliefs in response to Divine events and some even believing that Divine events and miracles stopped after the close of the biblical era.

The down side to the Protestant initiatives was that they pretty much gutted Christian history and with it the significance of all those Divine events. The plus side....they defanged a monstrous corrupt murderous machine. They reduced the politics and bureaucracy but only so much because as soon as you get men involved they start building a system of politics and power structures.

But the Protestants were divided and all over the place and the Catholic Church was on the downward slope of power. From then until now a whole bunch of conflicts and battles between the Catholics and Protestants.....that lasted to modern times. Some of us are old enough to remember the Catholics and Protestants in Ireland. Now lots of blood....lots of hate....divides Christ's Church.

So what do we do? What would Christ do? What are we going to do?

Sorry...still an abbreviated account....but welcome to my life. As you maybe able to see....the truth usually ticks everyone off.
I associate with several denominations and love the Christians in several denominations.....for now I believe that is the right way. I have my favorite which is the Holy Ghost churches in bethel churches.....The Way.....whatever it is should be in love.

My denomination....LOL...above all I am an educated theologian that love Christ. I was a gifted child, my mom was Catholic and my dad was Southern Baptist....I was baptized in a Catholic Church and Baptized when I was 16 in a Pentecostal Church. My parents thought that the Catholic schools was the best bang for the buck for a good education....I was in a Catholic college by 15 years of age and have been involved with formal education in one form or another for most of my life. For me Christianity is my religion, my study, and my hobby....people have a tenancy to be good at what they enjoy.

So no @Illuminator, I do not believe all there is to know about Christ and Christianity is in the Bible. Christ's Church continued on after the close of the biblical era. God did not retire or go silent. He did not stop interacting with humanity.
I believe in modern miracles and revelations. I don't think I have met the saints but I have met Miriam on a couple of occasions and if it happens to you....it will change your life forever.....she is pure love.

 

[Grailhunter]

At the Council of Carthage in 398 A.D., there was an assumption of a priestly prayer or benediction of the wedding ceremony.

I have already said that Gentile-Christian weddings were occurring, just not well documented and the Catholic Church knew this.
And the Catholics did discuss the involvement in such weddings by Priests. But nothing official or required until after the Protestants made wedding ceremonies a requirement. And Priests did attend some weddings, but they were not allowed in the Church buildings. A reflection of the Church's view at the time of marriage and their connection to the Church. Then they did make marriage a sacrament but still did allow weddings in the church buildings.....Kind of a precarious scenario, but then after the Protestants made weddings a requirement and the Catholics made weddings a requirement....Catholic weddings were required to be in the church buildings.

Martin Luther and the Protestants made Christianity and marriage and families go hand in hand....this was a big part of the reform. It took a while for the Catholic Church to warm up to all this.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Torah provides very little guidance with regard to the procedures of a marriage. The method of finding a spouse, the form of the wedding ceremony, and the nature of the marital relationship are all explained in the Talmud.

Again the Bible from cover to cover has no requirement for a wedding.

 

[Grailhunter]

Neither was true as could be seen with the Inquisition denouncing Kramer in 1490 and the book being added to the Index Librorum Prohibitorum (List of Prohibited Books) in by Pope Paul IV in 1559.
Still harping on your Malleus Maleficarum scam? You are too proud to be corrected. No doubt you will do it again because you think you have a handy bat to beat Catholics with. You are just pounding a malicious malleus drum.
Alexander Hislop's sicko book "The Two Babylons" is still in print too. That doesn't prove its true.

1559, kind of after the fact. It is kind of what leaders when the stuff hit the fan.
Malleus Maleficarum is not a scam it is part of Catholic Church history and is well documented.
The Malleus Maleficarum was a torture manual that was produced by the command of the Pope.
So your defense of this by denying Catholic history and reality....is what? Laughable? Sad? Silly!

In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII issued the Bull Summis Desideranter, authorizing two Dominican Inquisitors, Heinrich Kramer and Jakob Sprenger, to systemize the procedures for the interrogation of witches. Two years later in 1486, they produced a manual called the Malleus Maleficarum, which is Latin for The Hammer Of Witches. The Church financed and supervised the publishing of the manuals that were ordered and sent out to all Inquisitors. This manual was published with 14 editions between 1486 and 1520, and at least 16 other editions between 1574 and 1669. All editions were printed under the supervision and the authority of the Church and distributed by the Church to the Inquisitors.

Some of the so called truths it preached was; That the belief in such things as witches was so essential a part of the Catholic faith that obstinately to maintain the opposite option was in itself heresy.