What is the sign of the Son of Man?

[marks]

Are you saying that it supports your position or the position of @David H. and @Marty fox and @Iconoclast?

I'm saying that rather than there being a sign that that Son of Man was returned to heaven in Matthew 24, that's looking in the wrong place. That sign, that Jesus had returned to heaven, to His Father, was the sound of the wind, and the tongues of fire, and the people all hearing in their own languages, as the Holy Spirit was poured out.

Jesus said, If He return to the Father, He would send the Holy Spirit. He sent the Holy Spirit, the sign that He had returned to the Father.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Why do you assume that when Jesus said "this generation" that He wasn't talking about the 1st century Jews who lived A.D30-70?

Why does @David H. assume that He did not mean the generation that will be around at the time of His return?

@David H. and @Marty fox and @Iconoclast all have some very valid points.

Jesus had told them about the destruction of the termple. When did that happen, do you think? (Because that's the context of the entire passage, unless the Lord was answering both questions without telling them about the gap in time in-between the one event and the other).

Why should we cut 'n paste? (i.e cut the destruction of the temple and the tribulation involved out of the Olivet Discourse altogether and paste the entire Olivet Discourse into thousands of years later?)

We Will Disagree, Its My Observation That You Disregard In Error, The Very Clear Scripture Below

You Cant Separate The Signs, The Living Eyewitnesses Of The Signs, And The Second Coming That The Signs Precede, The Signs And Second Coming Are To Be Seen In A "Future" Generation That Will Not Pass

Jesus spoke of the "Future" generation that would be eyewitnesses of the events that precede (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 33, when you see all these things, know that it is near (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 36, of that day and hour knoweth no man, (The Second Coming) Future

Matthew 24:32-36KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[Zao is life]

I'm saying that rather than there being a sign that that Son of Man was returned to heaven in Matthew 24, that's looking in the wrong place. That sign, that Jesus had returned to heaven, to His Father, was the sound of the wind, and the tongues of fire, and the people all hearing in their own languages, as the Holy Spirit was poured out.

Jesus said, If He return to the Father, He would send the Holy Spirit. He sent the Holy Spirit, the sign that He had returned to the Father.

Much love!

Yes, and the sign of the son of Man would only come after the tribulation of those days being spoken about, so it would have been nearly 40 years after Pentecost.

 

[Zao is life]

We Will Disagree, Its My Observation That You Disregard The Very Clear Scripture Below, You Cant Separate The Signs, The Living Eyewitnesses, And The Second Coming Below "Future" Unfulfilled

Jesus spoke of the "Future" generation that would be eyewitnesses of the events that precede (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 33, when you see all these things, know that it is near (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 36, of that day and hour knoweth no man, (The Second Coming) Future

Matthew 24:32-36KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Jesus spoke of the "Future" generation that would be eyewitnesses of the events that precede (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 33, when you see all these things, know that it is near (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 36, of that day and hour knoweth no man, (The Second Coming) Future

Matthew 24:32-36KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

You're just cutting everything the Lord had said to them about the sign surrounding the coming destruction of the city and the temple (i.e esp the AoD), and the fact that He told those who would be in Judea to flee to the mountains when they see the signs, and pasting it into 1,900+ years later.

The comparison with the fig tree putting forth leaves would apply even more to them seeing the signs of the coming destruction He had warned them about. Again, you're ignoring the context of the passage, which was about the Lord's statement that the temple was going to be destroyed, which happened in A.D70, which was a time of great tribulation for the Jews and the saints who were around to see it all.

 

[Truth7t7]

You're just cutting everything the Lord had said to them about the sign surrounding the coming destruction of the city and the temple (i.e esp the AoD), and the fact that He told those who would be in Judea to flee to the mountains when they see the signs, and pasting it into 1,900+ years later.

The comparison with the fig tree putting forth leaves would apply even more to them seeing the signs of the coming destruction He had warned them about. Again, you're ignoring the context of the passage, which was about the Lord's statement that the temple was going to be destroyed, which happened in A.D70, which was a time of great tribulation for the Jews and the saints who were around to see it all.

Your Claim Of 70AD fulfillment is "Impossible" in the light of the scripture below

1. The Generation Of Eyewitnesses That See The Signs?

2. (The Second Coming) Is Near, Even At The Doors To The Eyewitnesses That See?

(Future Unfulfilled)

Jesus spoke of the "Future" generation that would be eyewitnesses of the events that precede (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 33, when you see all these things, know that it is near (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 36, of that day and hour knoweth no man, (The Second Coming) Future

Matthew 24:32-36KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[Zao is life]

70AD fulfillment is "Impossible" in the light of the scripture below

1. The Generation Of Eyewitnesses That See The Signs?

2. (The Second Coming) Is Near, Even At The Doors To The Eyewitnesses That See?

(Future Unfulfilled)

Jesus spoke of the "Future" generation that would be eyewitnesses of the events that precede (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 33, when you see all these things, know that it is near (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 36, of that day and hour knoweth no man, (The Second Coming) Future

Matthew 24:32-36KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

His Kingdom was coming. Wasn't it?

Was the period A.D30-70 not the last days of the leaders and religious rulers of Judea being the custodians of the Kingdom of God?

 

[Truth7t7]

His Kingdom was coming. Wasn't it?

Was the period A.D30-70 not the last days of the leaders and religious rulers of Judea being the custodians of the Kingdom of God?

Your response has absolutely no relevance to the scripture in post #25 above

It will be a "Future" generation that will be eyewitnesses of the signs and second coming "Future" unfulfilled, it's that simple

Your claim this was fulfilled in a kingdom coming, or leaders of Judea is "Historical"

No man knows the day and hour, "Future" Second Coming

 

[Zao is life]

It will be a "Future" generation that will be eyewitnesses of the signs and second coming "Future" unfulfilled, it's that simple

Says who? (Aside from you)?

 

[Zao is life]

It will be a "Future" generation that will be eyewitnesses of the signs and second coming "Future" unfulfilled, it's that simple

Your claim this was fulfilled in a kingdom coming, or leaders of Judea is "Historical"

No man knows the day and hour, "Future" Second Coming

When Jesus gave them the prophecy of the coming destruction of the temple, I'm 100% sure no man knew the day or hour it would happen. It was kind of 40 years before it happened, ya know?

 

[Marty fox]

"truth", This is not about right or wrong, I just want to hear what you think is the sign. Whatever perspective that you come from. @Marty fox is a preterist, But I appreciate his answer because i have never heard this explanation before. Do I agree with Him? Probably not, but his view is unique and one I had never considered before.



I Like you believe the sign and its timing is determined by the fig tree (Israel) Generation, which began in 1948 when Israel became a nation in one day. A generation is said to be 70-80 years and we are living in that window right now. (Psalm 90:10)

Thanks but FYI I'm only a partial preterist there is still more to happen

 

[Truth7t7]

Says who? (Aside from you)?

Say's God,in the scripture presented to you several times,as seen in post #25 above

A Future Generation, That Will Be Eyewitnesses Of The Signs And Second Coming

Know That It Is Near, Even At The Doors (Second Coming) Future

The Day And Hour No Man Knows, (Second Coming) Future

 

[Zao is life]

Say's God,in the scripture presented to you several times,as seen in post #25 above

A Future Generation, That Will Be Eyewitnesses Of The Signs And Second Coming

Know That It Is Near, Even At The Doors (Second Coming) Future

The Day And Hour No Man Knows, (Second Coming) Future

When Jesus gave them the prophecy of the coming dfestruction of the temple, I'm 100% sure no man knew the day or hour it would happen. It was kind of 40 years before it happened, ya know?

 

[Truth7t7]

When Jesus gave them the prophecy of the coming dfestruction of the temple, I'm 100% sure no man knew the day or hour it would happen. It was kind of 40 years before it happened, ya know?

The Whole Chapter Of Matthew 24 Surrounds The Question Of Signs Relating To The Second Coming, As You Desperately In Error, Claim This Coming Was A Symbolic Representation Fulfilled In 70AD

 

[Zao is life]

The Whole Chapter Of Matthew 24 Surrounds The Question Of Signs Relating To The Second Coming, As You Desperately In Error, Claim This Coming Was A Symbolic Representation Fulfilled In 70AD

No, it doesn't. The whole context of Matthew 24 is the Lord's prophecy regarding the coming destruction of the temple. Read Luke 21:20-24. It's a parallel passage.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty Jesus spoke of the "Future" generation that would be eyewitnesses of the events that precede (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 33, when you see all these things, know that it is near (The Second Coming) Future

Verse 36, of that day and hour knoweth no man, (The Second Coming) Future

Matthew 24:32-36KJV
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

So you think that when Jesus was talking to the disciples using the term "you see" it was actually people some two thousand years in the future?

My point is that Jerusalem was destroyed within that generation just like Jesus had predicted.

I'll stand by Jesus with the fufilled dated prophecy that Jesus gave happening when He said that It would happen thus proving once again that He is God. Let the fulfillment reveal what the prophecy was

 

[Marty fox]

Matthew 24:29-31 represents the second coming and last day resurrection, who you kidding Marty

Gotta get rid of the literal second coming seen with symbolism and allegory to keep the 70AD Preterist teaching alive

No greater example in the Holy bible of the second coming, than that seen below, and you want to remove it through symbolic allegory

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Coming on clouds was a sign of judgement like in the verse below

Isaiah 19:1
A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.


Below are the real verses of the second coming

Matthew 25:31-32
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Matthew 25:27
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

When Jesus comes back it will be with His angles on the judgement day

 

[marks]

So you think that when Jesus was talking to the disciples using the term "you see" it was actually people some two thousand years in the future?

My point is that Jerusalem was destroyed within that generation just like Jesus had predicted.

I'll stand by Jesus with the fufilled dated prophecy that Jesus gave happening when He said that It would happen thus proving once again that He is God. Let the fulfillment reveal what the prophecy was

It all depends on how you consider His audience. Were all the Words of Scripture only to those who personally heard them?

Were the Apostles to whom Jesus said this, were they all of them alive in 70 AD to see what happened then?

Did they all see it? Who WAS Jesus speaking to?

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

So you think that when Jesus was talking to the disciples using the term "you see" it was actually people some two thousand years in the future?

My point is that Jerusalem was destroyed within that generation just like Jesus had predicted.

I'll stand by Jesus with the fufilled dated prophecy that Jesus gave happening when He said that It would happen thus proving once again that He is God. Let the fulfillment reveal what the prophecy was

Marty Peterism takes the symbolic in Matthew24:2 and interprets it as literal,and the literal as symbolic in Matthew24:29-31

The temple being destroyed in Matthew 24:2 was symbolic of his death and resurrection, and yes his disciples remembered what he had said about the temples destruction

At the death of Jesus Christ, the veil in the temple was rent, the temple was symbolically destroyed, and after the resurrection this temple was replaced, rebuilt

Yes Preterism takes the literal second coming seen in Matthew 24:29-31, and symbolizes this into a "Coming Judgement" or whatever upon Israel

Matthew 27:50:51KJV
50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[marks]

It could be (I'm not saying it is) that Jesus answered both questions, without telling them about the gap between the one event and the other.

The earlier event, 70 AD, the prophecy is recorded in Luke. The later event, the end of the age, is recorded in Matthew 24. Both show the birth pangs, both prophesy Jesus' coming. Luke records the birth pangs, then says, but before these, and goes on to the destruction of Jerusalem, and the diaspora. Matthew records the birth pangs, says, Then, and prophesies the AoD, and the great tribulation.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Coming on clouds was a sign of judgement like in the verse below

Isaiah 19:1
A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear.


Below are the real verses of the second coming

Matthew 25:31-32
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Matthew 25:27
27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.

When Jesus comes back it will be with His angles on the judgement day

I strongly disagree with your symbolic representation of the second coming seen in Matthew 24:29-31

What you going to do with Matthew 24:31, and the Angel's harvesting the elect, and the resurrection seen, Symbolize this also?

Matthew 24:29-31KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.