What is Truth?

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Stranger

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Hello Stranger. Good quote. I agree with your comments. Below is a short question I asked Sword on the Forum "And the truth shall set you free" post #17; and his response:


Tabletalk said:
So, do you still sin?

Sword said:
"And here we go again people who loves to contradict scripture. Why will you not honour God?
Why do you look fotr fault continually like a pharisee?
Why is it God calls us sons. Joint aires with Christ. Holy . Sanctified, justified and YOU want to bring down?
If God siad I am no longer a slave to sin thats what I am.
You can wallow in your low self esteem if you like. But if you continue to contradict scripture and bring down people who except who they are in Christ. You are guilty of holding back the children of God. Now for your own good shut your face and stop the work od satan, You have no idea and continue to ASSUME THE ROLE OF TEACHER. Stop it, You completly clueless. Now please dont assume again that I am hurt. as soon as you chide anyone in here they say why you hurt. I aint. You cant hurt me. I am dead to self and your comments deeds and lifestyle can not hurt me or undermine my concern and love for MAN. All men including you. You are hurting your self with this hypocrisy, and the brethern. Total ignarance on your part. Just die already to self. It starts today. But No you will be all hurt because you are full of self and pity for self. so you will come back so predictably with a whole post telling me how you are correct and I am wrong."

I count about 18 accusations in the above paragraph from Sword to me. Is that a record? And all from one question.

It could be a record. But, sometimes records are a badge of honor.

Stranger
 

Old Man

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I might even press you on the "Christ founded my church" statement, as of course every "church" says this, but with all due respect i think it is more important to recognize the real Church, rather than pointlessly squabble about some worldly definition.

Press away. I never said "Christ founded my church" That's an oxymoron anyway unless it is Christ speaking. The Church Christ founded is not "my" Church. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I believe that each person has a duty to find the truth and to mold his life to conform with it. Too many try to make "their truth" conform to their lives. This is relativism. I am not a relativist. So I agree with you. Let's do our best to recognize the real Church and than do everything we can to abide in it and bring the whole world into the light of the truth that we've found.

The real Church is a spiritual entity, and imo you cannot point to it. Calling the building or sect you attend "church" is to me similar to how our country's leaders constantly refer to the country as a Nation, a la "This Great Nation," when it is not one nation (people), as is easily demonstrated.

It is a power grab in either case. A worldly way to sway opinions that actually reveals weakness, lack of confidence. It is a way to claim the best seat at the table.

I urge you to read the Early Church Fathers. They did not see the Church this way. To them, the Church was a concrete institution with a hierarchy and creeds and lots of refutation of heretics who tried to change the faith that was passed on by the apostles through their successors. It was critical to them that every local church throughout the known world hold the same faith. I believe that the novel idea of an "invisible church" is a product of the hopelessly divided Protestant world. Actual unity is impossible for anyone who teaches the primacy of private interpretation. If you denounce that, then you are right back to square one. Which Church (or system of interpretation) is correct? As for me and my family we are going back to the source.
 

mjrhealth

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There IS unity. Christ HAS kept his word. He founded 1 Church. It still exists as it did from day 1. Our job is to find it. There is only one Church that even claims to have continuous succession from the apostles.
It isnt so hard to find. You open your eyes, helps a lot, you step out the front door, walk into the street, and there it is, teh people, they are His" ecclesia" nothing to do with buildings.

Now if you took a church, any church, removed the roof, removed the ceiling, removed the windows, removed the doors, removed the walls, removed the pew, the altar, the sound system the overhead projecter, the doctrines the hierarchy the idols the band, than you will find His "church", the people they are His the rest is mans counterfit, the Harlot, dressed up to Kill and surely she does,
 
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Sword

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It isnt so hard to find. You open your eyes, helps a lot, you step out the front door, walk into the street, and there it is, teh people, they are His" ecclesia" nothing to do with buildings.

Now if you took a church, any church, removed the roof, removed the ceiling, removed the windows, removed the doors, removed the walls, removed the pew, the altar, the sound system the overhead projecter, the doctrines the hierarchy the idols the band, than you will find His "church", the people they are His the rest is mans counterfit, the Harlot, dressed up to Kill and surely she does,
Agreed
 
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bbyrd009

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I urge you to read the Early Church Fathers. They did not see the Church this way. To them, the Church was a concrete institution with a hierarchy and creeds and lots of refutation of heretics who tried to change the faith that was passed on by the apostles through their successors.
i agree, and i'm sure this was a valid perspective then; as was Paul's "i know the wolves will come in as soon as i leave." So i am suspicious of your Fathers wadr, who cobbled together a second and even a third council of Nicea, to impose their will--or let's just say that i am with the dissenters there, where the "Church" was officially laid to rest, or exploded, or however you might look at that, the
Institutionalizing of the church.
It was critical to them that every local church throughout the known world hold the same faith.
thus excluding the First Son by decree, yes.
I believe that the novel idea of an "invisible church" is a product of the hopelessly divided Protestant world.
yet we are told that the Kingdom does not come by observation, and cannot be pointed at; and we are cautioned, in many places, not to be setting up standards for judgement to apply to other people. Personally i find these at odds with following Christ, although i am aware of the passages used to justify this.

And you say "invisible," but one can feel the Spirit moving through a closed door imo, if they are quiet enough to listen. I can easily recognize the Church myself, wherever Christ is manifest, and someone is putting themselves out without any hope of gain.

No doubt this characterization is not adequate for you, and there are other wor...things that these need do in order to be considered acceptable, or "visible" to you; and i can only suggest that you follow your heart there, and judge for yourself, but if you cannot find believers even among foreigners who would not agree with your characterizations of the Church, then imo you have just accepted God in your image.
Actual unity is impossible for anyone who teaches the primacy of private interpretation.
yet Paul's private interpretation, 3 years of purposely avoiding the other Apostles so as not to be influenced by their beliefs during his formative period, seemed to serve him quite well, did it not. And imo another way that that concept falls on its face is that everyone essentially develops their own interpretation, their own take on things, no two people even in the leadership of some sect will agree completely on everything.

Nor, frankly, would i want them to. I at least do not need clones of myself, and i do not believe that God is seeking this either. We do not have to agree on beliefs in order to be in unity where it matters. Your beliefs do not serve God in any way; what i believe is essentially irrelevant to my neighbor, who only cares whether i have faith in God--even if they would not put it that way. "Love...believes all things" can hardly be explained any other way imo.
Which Church (or system of interpretation) is correct?
that is for you, all alone, to judge; "Seek your own salvation."
As for me and my family we are going back to the source.
that is what you tell yourself, and that is what pretty much everyone ends up saying that they seek or follow but then when you ask them for a description of their "first love" things seem to quickly deviate from the statements little children would make, and so i would have to ask you what "source" you are referencing, or for a description of your first love.

Because with all due respect i doubt that you followed Paul so to speak, or even studied Scripture for 3 years on your own, without a lot of guidance into the doctrines that you surely hold dear now...and that you cannot conclusively demonstrate even from Scripture to everyone's satisfaction. It's what everyone does, and what Scripture expressly tells us not to do, in more than one place.

Your desire for some unobtainable unity of beliefs, wherein everyone else of course comes around to your way of thinking, is to me the problem, and not the answer. Catholic Charities does not require any unity of beliefs in order to provide service to someone in need; why should i?

If i am qualified/disqualified somehow only after you have inquired about or discerned some one of my beliefs, then it seems to me that i don't need Christ, i just need the right guy to approve my path.

And wadr i have yet to find one whose advice after conversion was "leave town. Today. Don't take an extra shirt or shoes. Don't take any money. Stay where you land, and eat what they feed you." etc, so wadr i think i will advocate against anyone who has signed a Contract for Jesus, thanks though, and i have no judgement for anyone who feels comfortable in that system either--if it works for you, fine.
 
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Let us not forget the significance of Pilate's statement "What is truth" standing toe to toe with the truth the way and the life. When Peter proclaims Jesus as the Son of the living God, Jesus says blessed was Peter for it was not revealed to him by men but by the Father.
 

skyangel

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What is Truth?

Where is truth?

Truth is that which is 100% correct without a shadow of doubt.
Truth is reality.
Statements which cannot be denied are TRUTH.
eg.
1. All men will die one day is undoubtedly true.
2. A circle is round.
3. 1+1=2

Something that is an undeniable FACT is the TRUTH.

Where is Truth? It is in the reality of nature all around us and within us regardless of whether people recognise reality as Truth or not.
 

eldios

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Truth is that which is 100% correct without a shadow of doubt.
Truth is reality.
Statements which cannot be denied are TRUTH.
eg.
1. All men will die one day is undoubtedly true.
2. A circle is round.
3. 1+1=2

Something that is an undeniable FACT is the TRUTH.

Where is Truth? It is in the reality of nature all around us and within us regardless of whether people recognise reality as Truth or not.

Here's what the Truth formed in my mind to write down;

No man has the truth except for those who have received it and is guarded by the one who gave it.

Only those who have laid down their life for it, can see it.

Truth is not of this world but it exposes this world for what it is and leaves it naked and exposed for those who understand it.

Truth was never intended for those who aren't truthful. Lies are their nature.

Truth has the right to condemn those who don't have it.

Truth is the justice that mere man cannot conceive. The injustice man does, keeps him from it.

Life is chaotic to those who don't bear it, but is understood by those who do.

One can never know what truth really is until he has it. Then he will understand that its true.

Nobody can buy the truth because its not for sale. It is freely given to those who ask for it.

What you see is not always the truth because your eyes deceive you and your ears don't hear.

Truth is the righteousness that excludes men. Not to be seen until they are righteous.

Truth is more precious than gold, and gold is more precious than silver. A miner of truth will tell you that.

Give a man the truth and he will know your heart but don't trust a man without it.

Truth wasn't made for man's eyes because he is blind. Without his blindness he will see the truth.

Truth is not what you think it is, it's what you know it is.

Truth can't be defined in man's laws, because there's no truth in man.

Truth is freedom for those who lay down and die. Then they can live with the truth.

Truth avoids those who look for it but when it finds you, you will no longer look for it.

Give a man the truth and it will no longer be true.
 

skyangel

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Here's what the Truth formed in my mind to write down;

No man has the truth except for those who have received it and is guarded by the one who gave it.

Only those who have laid down their life for it, can see it.

Truth is not of this world but it exposes this world for what it is and leaves it naked and exposed for those who understand it.

Truth was never intended for those who aren't truthful. Lies are their nature.

Truth has the right to condemn those who don't have it.

Truth is the justice that mere man cannot conceive. The injustice man does, keeps him from it.

Life is chaotic to those who don't bear it, but is understood by those who do.

One can never know what truth really is until he has it. Then he will understand that its true.

Nobody can buy the truth because its not for sale. It is freely given to those who ask for it.

What you see is not always the truth because your eyes deceive you and your ears don't hear.

Truth is the righteousness that excludes men. Not to be seen until they are righteous.

Truth is more precious than gold, and gold is more precious than silver. A miner of truth will tell you that.

Give a man the truth and he will know your heart but don't trust a man without it.

Truth wasn't made for man's eyes because he is blind. Without his blindness he will see the truth.

Truth is not what you think it is, it's what you know it is.

Truth can't be defined in man's laws, because there's no truth in man.

Truth is freedom for those who lay down and die. Then they can live with the truth.

Truth avoids those who look for it but when it finds you, you will no longer look for it.

Give a man the truth and it will no longer be true.

I disagree with the statement "Truth has the right to condemn those who don't have it."
That is as bad as saying Love has a right to condemn those who don't have love.
It is not in the nature of Truth or Love or condemn anyone at all.

First of all Truth/Reality is all around us all the time and is not "given" to special people by anyone.
If it was something that was only given to a "chosen few", the "one who gave it" or "giver" would be very biased and not sharing his "treasures" with everyone without discriminating amongst them.
If the TRUTH all comes from the same "giver", that "giver" has no right to condemn anyone that doesn't have the TRUTH due to the fact that he never gave it to them in the first place.
If it is given to ALL without discrimination, and some reject it, the giver of Truth still cannot and does not condemn them for not accepting the gift. The gift is freely given to all without discrimination and all are free to accept or reject it. Those who reject it condemn themselves and suffer the consequences of their own rejection. The consequence of not accepting Truth is to live a life in deception which includes self deception and fantasy instead of living a life in Truth and reality. That is the one and only consequence.
Truth itself and no giver of Truth condemns others for lacking the Truth. Givers of treasures have compassion and understand that not everyone perceives Truth as something they can believe. It understands about peoples doubts and fears etc. It understands about deceptions fooling people into seeing Truth as a lie and vice versa. Truth is a treasure to some people and trash to others. One mans trash... anothers treasure....
Some cast it aside like worthless garbage and others cherish it. They all reap the consequences of their very own actions. No Truth or giver of Truth condemns them. Peoples own words and actions justify or condemn them.

Matt 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
 

skyangel

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Here's what the Truth formed in my mind to write down;

Give a man the truth and he will know your heart but don't trust a man without it.

That is not true either. Look at the story of Jesus. He gave the Pharisees the Truth and they never knew his heart at all. They got it totally wrong because they never recognised the gift of Truth as Truth. They perceived it to be a lie.
 

eldios

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I disagree with the statement "Truth has the right to condemn those who don't have it."
That is as bad as saying Love has a right to condemn those who don't have love.
It is not in the nature of Truth or Love or condemn anyone at all.

First of all Truth/Reality is all around us all the time and is not "given" to special people by anyone.
If it was something that was only given to a "chosen few", the "one who gave it" or "giver" would be very biased and not sharing his "treasures" with everyone without discriminating amongst them.
If the TRUTH all comes from the same "giver", that "giver" has no right to condemn anyone that doesn't have the TRUTH due to the fact that he never gave it to them in the first place.
If it is given to ALL without discrimination, and some reject it, the giver of Truth still cannot and does not condemn them for not accepting the gift. The gift is freely given to all without discrimination and all are free to accept or reject it. Those who reject it condemn themselves and suffer the consequences of their own rejection. The consequence of not accepting Truth is to live a life in deception which includes self deception and fantasy instead of living a life in Truth and reality. That is the one and only consequence.
Truth itself and no giver of Truth condemns others for lacking the Truth. Givers of treasures have compassion and understand that not everyone perceives Truth as something they can believe. It understands about peoples doubts and fears etc. It understands about deceptions fooling people into seeing Truth as a lie and vice versa. Truth is a treasure to some people and trash to others. One mans trash... anothers treasure....
Some cast it aside like worthless garbage and others cherish it. They all reap the consequences of their very own actions. No Truth or giver of Truth condemns them. Peoples own words and actions justify or condemn them.

Matt 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

You don't believe anything that comes from the mind of Christ. You will observe your body perishing before you hear the voice of God speaking directly into your mind from the Truth.

John 5:
25: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26: For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
27: and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.
28: Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.

You unbelievers choose scriptures to fit your false doctrines. God uses the scriptures to prove to us servants that our testimonies are true and accurate.
 

eldios

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That is not true either. Look at the story of Jesus. He gave the Pharisees the Truth and they never knew his heart at all. They got it totally wrong because they never recognised the gift of Truth as Truth. They perceived it to be a lie.

You don't know what Truth is and you won't until you wake up on the new earth.
 

skyangel

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You don't believe anything that comes from the mind of Christ. You will observe your body perishing before you hear the voice of God speaking directly into your mind from the Truth.

John 5:
25: "Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
26: For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself,
27: and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man.
28: Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.

You unbelievers choose scriptures to fit your false doctrines. God uses the scriptures to prove to us servants that our testimonies are true and accurate.

Notice in your above scriptures the words "and now is"
Those words remain the same and mean the same yesterday Today and forever.
The hour was and "NOW IS" and "is coming" all the time. Just like NOW was and is and is coming all the time.
Do you see any dead coming out of tombs yesterday today and tomorrow?
I am dead yet I live. Do you think people need to die physically before I they hear the "voice" of Christ?
Are you dead in Christ? Are you in a tomb? Do you hear his voice?
The tomb is the "whited sepulchre" which refers to the fleshly body.
It is not referring to a literal grave.

I AM that I AM.
 

skyangel

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You don't know what Truth is and you won't until you wake up on the new earth.
2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

If you are a new creature in Christ, old things including the old Earth, has passed away and behold the Earth which is part of ALL THINGS has become New but only those who are IN CHRIST can see the NEW Earth on which they live. The blind and carnal minded hypocrites can only see the old Earth.

I am the Truth.
 

eldios

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Notice in your above scriptures the words "and now is"
Those words remain the same and mean the same yesterday Today and forever.
The hour was and "NOW IS" and "is coming" all the time. Just like NOW was and is and is coming all the time.
Do you see any dead coming out of tombs yesterday today and tomorrow?
I am dead yet I live. Do you think people need to die physically before I they hear the "voice" of Christ?
Are you dead in Christ? Are you in a tomb? Do you hear his voice?
The tomb is the "whited sepulchre" which refers to the fleshly body.
It is not referring to a literal grave.

I AM that I AM.

You have learned some knowledge that us servants testify to but your arrogance keeps you from listening to the gospel (voice ) that we preach to God's chosen believers. The only way to the deeper knowledge to know what the Truth is and how it was created is to believe the rest of the story that you obviously reject. Not all chosen believers get 100 % during this temporary generation. Some get 30, 60 and a few get 100 % but most are too concerned about the world they think is real. They won't know their true reality until they wake up on the new earth with their created partner of the opposite sex. The voice of God will be their teacher of the new language that won't be spoken with a verbal language we're familiar with in this generation. It will be carried in a different frequency similar to the way our computers communicate with each other via infra-red, etc.

I have met many spiritually arrogant believers like yourself so I know who you are. You have no knowledge about the future or how we will experience life after the day of the Lord. You know nothing about how we're created or why our Creator used us servants called prophets and saints.
 

eldios

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2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

If you are a new creature in Christ, old things including the old Earth, has passed away and behold the Earth which is part of ALL THINGS has become New but only those who are IN CHRIST can see the NEW Earth on which they live. The blind and carnal minded hypocrites can only see the old Earth.

I am the Truth.

You know nothing about the Truth or how it was created. You have no knowledge at all in your words other than saying you are the Truth. You don't know anything about the beast or why it was created. You don't know how this generation will end or how we'll experience life in the next generation called the new heaven and earth after Satan and the beast have been deleted from the source of life, also known as the Tree of Life.
 

perrero

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Here's what the Truth formed in my mind to write down;

Formed in your mind ????
That's a direct quote from your link shared in another post God's Gospel

I'll tell you what's in my mind. It's that you're a fraud and that you're deceived by that God's Gospel rubish.
 

lforrest

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There is 'truth' with lower case t and 'Truth' with upper case T.
Lower case truth is factually correct information. Upper case Truth is the Logos, word of God.

Here is your truth.
1. All men will die one day is undoubtedly true.
That is until death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14

2. A circle is round.
There is no perfectly round circle in reality. Only the conceptual perfect circle exists. Perhaps it will live on in heaven, or our knowledge may be such that we no longer have to conceptualize things. I've no idea which it will be.

3. 1+1=2
All math is conceptual, I sure hope there is no math in heaven.