What is Truth?

[skyangel]

There is 'truth' with lower case t and 'Truth' with upper case T.
Lower case truth is factually correct information. Upper case Truth is the Logos, word of God.

Here is your truth.
1. All men will die one day is undoubtedly true.
That is until death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14

2. A circle is round.
There is no perfectly round circle in reality. Only the conceptual perfect circle exists. Perhaps it will live on in heaven, or our knowledge may be such that we no longer have to conceptualize things. I've no idea which it will be.

3. 1+1=2
All math is conceptual, I sure hope there is no math in heaven.

The fact remains that regardless of whether you place an upper case or lower case on Truth/truth. Mankind will always conceptualise it and see only what they want to see as being true. Not even the TRUTH ( Jesus) was seen as being 100% true or truthful to all bible characters.
If something is the TRUTH without any shadow of doubt, why do you think so many people perceive that TRUTH as a lie at all?
Why do you think that the TRUTH appears to be a lie to so many people?
Why do lies and false doctrines appear to be the Truth to so many people?

 

[skyangel]

There is 'truth' with lower case t and 'Truth' with upper case T.
Lower case truth is factually correct information. Upper case Truth is the Logos, word of God.

Here is your truth.
1. All men will die one day is undoubtedly true.
That is until death and hell are cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14

Do you actually think or believe that there will come a day when mankind will no longer die physically?
Do you think that one day Gen 3:19 and Ecc 12:7 will no longer be true or relevant?
Physical death is part of physical life and always will be if the mortal body will always return to dust. If it will not always return to dust then the principles of life and death in the scriptures are not eternal but rather temporary. They will all come to an end and salvation will no longer be necessary for anyone.
Death and hell are cast into "the lake of fire" daily for all eternity in the same way that darkness is destroyed daily as it is dispelled by the Light.
The "Lake of fire" is obviously not a physical lake so you cannot throw physical or material things into it. You cannot throw physical death into a spiritual fire you can only throw spiritual death into a spiritual fire.

 

[Sword]

I am never gonna die. as Paul says to die is to be with Christ. So when you gonna die. You talking about the body and the body isnt you.
Matter of fact no one is ever gonna die ever. They can kill the body thats all. and its not death or finale.

 

[eldios]

Formed in your mind ????
That's a direct quote from your link shared in another post God's Gospel

I'll tell you what's in my mind. It's that you're a fraud and that you're deceived by that God's Gospel rubish.

What is formed in your mind comes from Satan and the beast which is where the world came from that you believe in. What is formed in my mind comes from the mind of Christ that knows the very deep knowledge of God. Not one Christian knows what the beast is which is necessary to learn how we're created.

 

[lforrest]

Do you actually think or believe that there will come a day when mankind will no longer die physically?
Do you think that one day Gen 3:19 and Ecc 12:7 will no longer be true or relevant?
Physical death is part of physical life and always will be if the mortal body will always return to dust. If it will not always return to dust then the principles of life and death in the scriptures are not eternal but rather temporary. They will all come to an end and salvation will no longer be necessary for anyone.
Death and hell are cast into "the lake of fire" daily for all eternity in the same way that darkness is destroyed daily as it is dispelled by the Light.
The "Lake of fire" is obviously not a physical lake so you cannot throw physical or material things into it. You cannot throw physical death into a spiritual fire you can only throw spiritual death into a spiritual fire.

Gen 3:19 with context with 3:17 establishes it as a curse:

"17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
​

Rev 22:3 shows this curse will be abolished.

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"​

The principles of life and death? These scriptures speak of the curse, not principles. A principle is Ezekiel 18:20:

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."​

Death and hell are cast into the fire once at end of the judgement. It is the sweeping of the threshing floor as it were.
Physical death is a material thing? Where is it now, how much does death weigh? Try again on that one.

 

[skyangel]

Gen 3:19 with context with 3:17 establishes it as a curse:

"17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."
​

Rev 22:3 shows this curse will be abolished.

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:"​

The principles of life and death? These scriptures speak of the curse, not principles. A principle is Ezekiel 18:20:

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."​

Death and hell are cast into the fire once at end of the judgement. It is the sweeping of the threshing floor as it were.
Physical death is a material thing? Where is it now, how much does death weigh? Try again on that one.

So you obviously don't believe the curse WAS abolished on the day Jesus died on the cross in the story?
Do you think this curse still needs to be abolished one day in the future?
If so, who is going to abolish this curse of physical death and how will it be abolished?
Did Jesus not finish ALL His work on the cross?
Do you realise the judgement of the world WAS on the day Jesus died on the cross?
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
According to John 12:31 when was the judgment of the world and when was the prince of the world cast out?
Who was the "prince of the world?"

When I say physical death is a material thing I mean it is a process of the passing away of something material which happens to be a material or fleshly body.
It is foolish to believe that there will ever come a day when physical death is annihilated for mortals. Mortals are what they are and as such they will die because physical death is part of mortality and always will be.
Any death and hell which is cast into a lake of fire is spiritual death and hell, not something physical.
God is the consuming fire and when people submit their spirit to God and live in God, the spiritual death and darkness which was once in them and the hell they once lived in is cast into the fire and burned and they become the LIGHT of the world due to becoming part of the fire in which they dwell, abide and live forever.

 

[skyangel]

I am never gonna die. as Paul says to die is to be with Christ. So when you gonna die. You talking about the body and the body isnt you.
Matter of fact no one is ever gonna die ever. They can kill the body thats all. and its not death or finale.

What you wrote is really funny... IF 'to die is to be with Christ", you said you are never gonna die. In other words you are never gonna be with Christ.

Those who are already dead in sins need to die to those sins and when they die to those sins, that is a death to death and hell which results in eternal life. Understand?
It has nothing to do with mortality and physical death.

 

[lforrest]

So you obviously don't believe the curse WAS abolished on the day Jesus died on the cross in the story?
Do you think this curse still needs to be abolished one day in the future?
If so, who is going to abolish this curse of physical death and how will it be abolished?
Did Jesus not finish ALL His work on the cross?
Do you realize the judgement of the world WAS on the day Jesus died on the cross?
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
According to John 12:31 when was the judgment of the world and when was the prince of the world cast out?
Who was the "prince of the world?"

No, Jesus didn't finish all his work on the cross. He still needs to prepare a place for all his saints so he can enjoy his rest to the fullest with them. The work he finished is God's plan for salvation, which ensures creation will return to his control. Anything that does not come from God will burn. The day of Judgement is coming and Jesus will return. With Jesus' victory set it in motion for eventual fulfillment on earth.

For now this world is still fallen and the curse remains.

 

[skyangel]

No, Jesus didn't finish all his work on the cross. He still needs to prepare a place for all his saints so he can enjoy his rest to the fullest with them. The work he finished is God's plan for salvation, which ensures creation will return to his control. Anything that does not come from God will burn. The day of Judgement is coming and Jesus will return. With Jesus' victory set it in motion for eventual fulfillment on earth.

For now this world is still fallen and the curse remains.

Jesus disagrees with you. He said he did finish all the work the Father gave him to do.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Who should I believe? You or Jesus?

The day of judgment is always NOW. God judges people every day for all eternity. Psalm 7:11
The judgment of the world was the day Jesus died on the cross according to the story. John 12:31
Creation was and is always under Gods control. It never stopped being under his control.
God is in authority over all things including the devil at all times.
Jesus has no need to return to any place when he is already there. He has no more need to return to Earth than the LIGHT has a need to return to Earth daily since it is always on Earth whether people can see the LIGHT or not.

 

[eldios]

Jesus disagrees with you. He said he did finish all the work the Father gave him to do.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Who should I believe? You or Jesus?

The day of judgment is always NOW. God judges people every day for all eternity. Psalm 7:11
The judgment of the world was the day Jesus died on the cross according to the story. John 12:31
Creation was and is always under Gods control. It never stopped being under his control.
God is in authority over all things including the devil at all times.
Jesus has no need to return to any place when he is already there. He has no more need to return to Earth than the LIGHT has a need to return to Earth daily since it is always on Earth whether people can see the LIGHT or not.

Yes. Jesus finished the work that the Father had him do but there were many other servants who came after him that our Father had us do. We all finished our work for our Father before the religious heathens have us killed. The millennium reign of Christ has lasted 2,000 years with many of us servants testifying to His knowledge called Christ which reveals how we're created and what will happen in the future.

 

[lforrest]

Jesus disagrees with you. He said he did finish all the work the Father gave him to do.
John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Who should I believe? You or Jesus?

The day of judgment is always NOW. God judges people every day for all eternity. Psalm 7:11
The judgment of the world was the day Jesus died on the cross according to the story. John 12:31
Creation was and is always under Gods control. It never stopped being under his control.
God is in authority over all things including the devil at all times.
Jesus has no need to return to any place when he is already there. He has no more need to return to Earth than the LIGHT has a need to return to Earth daily since it is always on Earth whether people can see the LIGHT or not.

And the father didn't say he gave Jesus everything to do that will ever need doing. So you take the Bible literally sometimes,

Jesus has his victory in heaven already, Satan has fallen from heaven. JESUS said "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." Our authority on earth stems from Jesus' authority in heaven. Luke 10:18-20.

This is why Jesus instructs us to pray "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Because there is no guarantee it is that way now, but it will be after the judgement.

When someone drives out demons or overcomes Satan, it is like dipping into ones interatence.

 

[skyangel]

And the father didn't say he gave Jesus everything to do that will ever need doing. So you take the Bible literally sometimes,

Jesus has his victory in heaven already, Satan has fallen from heaven. JESUS said "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven." Our authority on earth stems from Jesus' authority in heaven. Luke 10:18-20.

This is why Jesus instructs us to pray "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." Because there is no guarantee it is that way now, but it will be after the judgement.

When someone drives out demons or overcomes Satan, it is like dipping into ones interatence.

The judgement will never end simply because the day of the Lord is an eternal day without beginning or end.
That day always was and always is and always is to come on Earth the same as yesterday always was and is and is to come on Earth. That day is always NOW. Take time to study the word NOW in the bible and understand that whatever happened NOW in the bible stories is always happening in the NOW because the time called NOW really has no beginning or end unless people assign a beginning and end to it. In a spiritual sense, judgement is always NOW and the prince of the world is always destroyed NOW and cast out of the world NOW. (John 12:31) Light is always destroying darkness in the eternal NOW as well as always creating darkness as the very same time. When light blinds your eyes all you see is darkness instead of light.
The God of the bible stories has done everything that will ever need doing. He did it all in the Genesis story and then RESTED from his works and saw that all he did was GOOD. Why did he rest if something still needed doing? Nothing still needs doing in the eternal realm. It has all been done already and it is all good and works like clockwork in repetitive cycles. God is always in control of all things including all the "evil" which humans complain about on this planet when something is not working according to how they think it ought to work. The will of God is always done. Nothing can go against his will. Not even the devil can work against the will of God. Darkness cannot destroy Light. Darkness is not the destroyer. Light is the destroyer and creator of darkness.

Do you think "Thy will be done" is some plea or request for the will of God to be done at some future time? It is not, it is a statement that the will of God will be done whether humans believe it is the will of God or not.
All good and all evil, all darkness and light, comes from God not from any other place or any other character.
God himself in the story admits to creating evil.( Isaiah 45:7) I know most Christians don't want to accept that as FACT and do all they can to explain it away or interpret it as not meaning what it says, but it is what it is. God never blames or credits the devil for creating evil or anything else but Christians do and they love to continue in their sin and credit the devil for all bad things. It seems they need a scapegoat to blame or credit for whatever they perceive as bad in this world so they blame the devil or Adam instead of blaming themselves for their own stupidity. It is mankind who creates all the hardships and wars among mankind. It is not some good or evil invisible person with supernatural powers.

 

[Sword]

lforrest
I dont know if you are talking to me or another

 

[eldios]

The judgement will never end simply because the day of the Lord is an eternal day without beginning or end.

When are you going to stop lying about the day of the Lord that will happen in the near future?

Matthew 24
14: And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, as a testimony to all nations; and then the end will come.

Ezekiel 38
19: For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, On that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20: the fish of the sea, and the birds of the air, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the cliffs shall fall, and every wall shall tumble to the ground.

2 Peter 3
1 This is now the second letter that I have written to you, beloved, and in both of them I have aroused your sincere mind by way of reminder;
2 that you should remember the predictions of the holy prophets and the commandment of the Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3 First of all you must understand this, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own passions
4 and saying, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation."
5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago, and an earth formed out of water and by means of water,
6 through which the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
7 But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist have been stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness,
12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire!

Isaiah 66
15: "For behold, the LORD will come in fire, and his chariots like the stormwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16: For by fire will the LORD execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the LORD shall be many.

Zephaniah 1
18: Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them on the day of the wrath of the LORD. In the fire of his jealous wrath, all the earth shall be consumed; for a full, yea, sudden end he will make of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Revelation 21
1: Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.
2: And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband;
3: and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them;
4: he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."
5: And he who sat upon the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new." Also he said, "Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true."
6: And he said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the fountain of the water of life without payment.
7: He who conquers shall have this heritage, and I will be his God and he shall be my son.
8: But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

After Satan ( false prophet ) and the beast and all the flesh of man has been destroyed on the day of the Lord, then we created men will enter a new peaceful generation with all new images from the information called Christ. Never again will created men be deceived by visible images and thoughts that appear "good and evil".

 

[lforrest]

lforrest
I dont know if you are talking to me or another

Hmm, did you see my quote from skyangel in that post?
She was stuff about judgement being every day, and denying the return of Jesus.

 

[Sword]

Hmm, did you see my quote from skyangel in that post?
She was stuff about judgement being every day, and denying the return of Jesus.

No I ignored her and stranger and two others makes for a peacefull day

 

[eldios]

Hmm, did you see my quote from skyangel in that post?
She was stuff about judgement being every day, and denying the return of Jesus.

She's a liar like all the inhabitants on earth who perish during this temporary generation. The flesh of man ( inhabitants of earth ) were never our true created existence in the Word of God as created men, both male and female. She speaks like she understands what being reborn in the spirit of God is but she's a liar who doesn't believe in the day of the Lord when everything on it will be destroyed and melted with the fire of the Lord.

 

[Helen]

Re opening post. ( sorry too many posts between to read everything...so maybe mine has already been said)
Truth is perspective I think. Someone could be in the bathroom and yell, "We are out of toilet paper" , true, but not fact...the truth is, that under the sink the cupboard if full of them.
Both are right.
Truth to me, is the light that God has revealed for me to walk in. For each of us it is a different perspective, ......where we are standing at any given time in our walk. =
The Elephant syndrome. Someone discribing what they see from the front ( trunk) and someone at the tail end saying " No, you are wrong..that is not an elephant" They one have one perspective. ..same with an elephant's leg. Each has a vision of only a PART of the picture , but no one can see the whole picture.
That is how God designed it. That is why we are called " The body of Christ" ...everyone has a place....therefore our focus is often on another part of the whole.

As someone has already said...it is the difference between a truth and The Truth.

Yes, we have a strong foundation and we stand that which The Truth has revealed to us. In the body of Christ it is easy to get frustrated with others when they cannot see the things that have been already revealed to us.
I think maybe that you are meaning 'doctrine' where you use the word truth?
Some people have a teachable spirit, some don't . Our doctrine is a very mixed bag. I'm always interested in what other believe, and how they arrived at what they believe. A mature Christian will always be open to fresh light, a legalistic Christian will believe that they have ' arrived' and then just 'camp' there, never growing or moving on , but believing that they have it all. Truth is both a solid fact, and a progression...
Just my two cents ..

 

[bbyrd009]

The judgement will never end simply because the day of the Lord is an eternal day without beginning or end.
That day always was and always is and always is to come on Earth the same as yesterday always was and is and is to come on Earth. That day is always NOW. Take time to study the word NOW in the bible and understand that whatever happened NOW in the bible stories is always happening in the NOW because the time called NOW really has no beginning or end unless people assign a beginning and end to it. In a spiritual sense, judgement is always NOW and the prince of the world is always destroyed NOW and cast out of the world NOW. (John 12:31) Light is always destroying darkness in the eternal NOW as well as always creating darkness as the very same time. When light blinds your eyes all you see is darkness instead of light.
The God of the bible stories has done everything that will ever need doing. He did it all in the Genesis story and then RESTED from his works and saw that all he did was GOOD. Why did he rest if something still needed doing? Nothing still needs doing in the eternal realm. It has all been done already and it is all good and works like clockwork in repetitive cycles. God is always in control of all things including all the "evil" which humans complain about on this planet when something is not working according to how they think it ought to work. The will of God is always done. Nothing can go against his will. Not even the devil can work against the will of God. Darkness cannot destroy Light. Darkness is not the destroyer. Light is the destroyer and creator of darkness.

Do you think "Thy will be done" is some plea or request for the will of God to be done at some future time? It is not, it is a statement that the will of God will be done whether humans believe it is the will of God or not.
All good and all evil, all darkness and light, comes from God not from any other place or any other character.
God himself in the story admits to creating evil.( Isaiah 45:7) I know most Christians don't want to accept that as FACT and do all they can to explain it away or interpret it as not meaning what it says, but it is what it is. God never blames or credits the devil for creating evil or anything else but Christians do and they love to continue in their sin and credit the devil for all bad things. It seems they need a scapegoat to blame or credit for whatever they perceive as bad in this world so they blame the devil or Adam instead of blaming themselves for their own stupidity. It is mankind who creates all the hardships and wars among mankind. It is not some good or evil invisible person with supernatural powers.

Word

 

[bbyrd009]

Hmm, did you see my quote from skyangel in that post?
She was stuff about judgement being every day, and denying the return of Jesus.

she is not denying Christ's return, forrest, just revealing it as a spiritual occurrence that happens in a heart, and not some fleshly physical miraculous mass event that has to occur before life can begin. You might ask yourself what is the point of having Ambassadors if You have to go there Yourself to get anything done? Lol.

You are either the Body of Christ or you are not, ok, and personally i would be very uncomfortable with any position that defines me as any less than the Body of Christ, and at the very least i would sure not be condemning the Body of Christ, but bam do what you want.

 

[bbyrd009]

Hmm, did you see my quote from skyangel in that post?
She was stuff about judgement being every day, and denying the return of Jesus.

she is not denying Christ's return, forrest, just revealing it as a spiritual occurrence that happens in a heart, and not some fleshly physical miraculous mass event that has to occur before life can begin. You might ask yourself what is the point of having Ambassadors if You have to go there Yourself to get anything done? Lol.

You are either the Body of Christ or you are not, ok, and personally i would be very uncomfortable with any position that defines me as any less than the Body of Christ, and at the very least i would sure not be condemning the Body of Christ, but bam do what you want.