What is truth?

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theefaith

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See the New Testament.



See Acts 15.



Jesus and the apostles were considered heretics by their fellow Jews. What would he and they think of persons who moved the church away from their unitarianism to trinitarianism?

was that the only council?

According as his divine power!

“his divine power”!!!


2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 

Matthias

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was that the only council?

No. If you’re familiar with the history of Church Councils, as I believe you probably are since you’re Roman Catholic, then you’re aware of the presence of unitarians at others.

According as his divine power!

“his divine power”!!!

2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

See above.
 

theefaith

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Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Before the creation of the world only God existed! Gen 1:1 Jn 1:1
 

theefaith

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According as his divine power!

“his divine power”!!!


2 Peter 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 

theefaith

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No. If you’re familiar with the history of Church Councils, as I believe you probably are since you’re Roman Catholic, then you’re aware of the presence of unitarians at others.



See above.

Then you know the trinity is declared by apostolic authority in holy council where the Arian heresy was defeated
 

theefaith

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“of God, and of Jesus our Lord” = of the Father, and of the Son.

Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life

refers to Christ as Divine’
 

Matthias

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Then you know the trinity is declared by apostolic authority in holy council where the Arian heresy was defeated

Jesus and the apostles are neither trinitarians nor Arians; they are Jews.
 

Matthias

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Jesus our Lord,

3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life

refers to Christ as Divine’

Christ is divine (i.e. godlike) but he himself has a God. That’s Judaism, not trinitarianism.

Christianity began as a sect of Judaism. The religion of Jesus and the apostles is Judaism. The God of Judaism is only one person, the Father.
 

Matthias

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Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Before the creation of the world only God existed! Gen 1:1 Jn 1:1

Just like Peter, Paul makes a distinction between God and Jesus Christ.

Which came first, Christianity as a unitarian sect of Judaism or Christianity as a trinitarian religion separate from Judaism?
 

Matthias

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”Was the transition from the personal monotheism of Israel to the tri-personal theism of Nicaea a legitimate development of Old Testament revelation? Christians affirm that it is, holding that Nicaea represents a fuller unfolding, not a distortion, of the self-disclosure of the God of Israel. Indeed, the trinitarianism of Nicaea and the Christological definitions of Chalcedon are seen as the valid and necessary interpretation of the claims of Jesus Christ in the context of the Old Testament witness to the God who is One. Without Nicaea and Chalcedon, it would not have been possible to maintain that Christianity is a biblical religion, the legitimate daughter of Old Testament Judaism.“

(Harold O. J. Brown, Heresies: Heresy And Orthodoxy In The Church, p. 431)

Dr. Brown - “hard core” trinitarian.

1. He acknowledges a shift from the personal (i.e. unitarian) monotheism of Israel to the trinitarian monotheism of Christianity (Council of Chalcedon). Nothing shocking about that.

2. He calls it “a legitimate development of Old Testament revelation.“ Much can be said about that (and obviously unitarians - and binitarians! - wouldn’t agree with it) but my purpose here is only to present the case which he makes that there was development in the doctrine over several centuries in post-biblical times.

3. He insists on Nicaea and the definitions of Chalcedon as not only valid but necessary interpretations. They weren’t valid and necessary interpretations prior to Nicaea (325 AD) and Chalcedon (451 AD) - what about Christians who lived before the 4th century (Council of Nicaea) and the 5th century (Council of Chalcedon) and knew nothing of them? But again, my purpose here is only to present the case that a lengthy period of development of the doctrine occurred.

4. He says without Nicaea and Chalcedon it would not have been possible to maintain that Christianity is a biblical religion. That’s unconvincing. Christianity began as a sect of Judaism in the 1st century. No Christian living in the centuries prior to Nicaea and Chalcedon had any problem claiming Christianity is a biblical religion. Even so, and even here, he tacitly acknowledges that the doctrine of the Trinity developed over time in the claim that trinitarianism is the legitimate daughter of Old Testament Judaism - which wasn’t trinitarian.
 

theefaith

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Christ is divine (i.e. godlike) but he himself has a God. That’s Judaism, not trinitarianism.

Christianity began as a sect of Judaism. The religion of Jesus and the apostles is Judaism. The God of Judaism is only one person, the Father.

the glory of the revelation of Jesus Christ, the Christian faith is one God and three divine persons
As scripture says Matt 28:19

and at mt. Tabor
And his baptism
 

theefaith

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Just like Peter, Paul makes a distinction between God and Jesus Christ.

Which came first, Christianity as a unitarian sect of Judaism or Christianity as a trinitarian religion separate from Judaism?

only God existed before the creation!
If all things were created by Jesus Christ then he must be God!

the divinity of Christ and the holy trinity are Christian faith and doctrine reveled by Christ to reject them is to reject Christ his holy church, and salvation
 

Jim B

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I thought they were Christian’s

This was your reply to what Matthias wrote? -- Jesus and the apostles are neither trinitarians nor Arians; they are Jews."

Try reading the Bible. He is correct: they were all Jews. As usual, what is thought is wrong.
 

Jim B

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only God existed before the creation!
If all things were created by Jesus Christ then he must be God!

the divinity of Christ and the holy trinity are Christian faith and doctrine reveled by Christ to reject them is to reject Christ his holy church, and salvation

It is obvious from your post that not only is your doctrine wrong but your are semi-literate.
 

Matthias

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I thought they were Christian’s

The first Christians were still Jews.

Christianity is Jewish, in the beginning. It later separated from Judaism and, as Church history documents, gradually transitioned to the trinitarian faith.
 
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Matthias

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the glory of the revelation of Jesus Christ, the Christian faith is one God and three divine persons
As scripture says Matt 28:19

and at mt. Tabor
And his baptism

You’re offering me here trinitarian commentary on scripture written by Jews.
 
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Behold

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You’re offering me here trinitarian commentary on scripture written by Jews.

John 1:10 is written by a NT Jew.

Colossians 1:16 is written by a NT Jew.

So, when you teach that God as Jesus Manifested in the Flesh, from a Virgin, 1 Timothy 3:16... then be sure to use those 2 verses.

One teaches that Jesus made the world.

The other teaches that all things were made through him, and He currently is holding everything together..... all the parts of the universe.

This is why Jesus said, subsequent to being raised from the dead, that "all power is given to me, in heaven and on earth".
And that would make sense, as God would obviously have "all power".