What is wrong with Pride?

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MatthewG

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Pride is interesting. We like to be proud of what we've done. However, when we are motivated by pride rather than love, we hurt people.

Hello Bob,

Thank you for taking time to comment, it is true as human beings we do like to be proud of what we have done or accomplished. Sometimes though as the Parable spoken by Jesus in the first post. Pride can become so rampant that one despises other people, and the King Yeshua, stated sometime in his Gospels about how one should become humble as children; which is opposite of Pride. Thank you for commenting.
 
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MatthewG

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We should never boast in self and apart from Christ we can do nothing. (John 15:5)

Thank you mailmandan. It all depends where our heart and mind is set in while we live this life, and for those who choose to follow Christ it should be on God, and the Lord Yeshua, and what they are about and what they have accomplished for all the world.
 
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Ziggy

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I have to consider sometimes really hard, how a certain post i write is going to be taken.
None of my posts are ever written with the intention to offend. However sometimes they do.
And I just hope that people can hear the sincerity of my words, instead of leaping to conclusions.
Having said that..
I think a lot. Some call it meditating on the word of God. I call it thinking.

Pride had to have an origen. Just as Love had to have an origen.
They didn't just mysteriously appear out of nothing, They came from somewhere.

The Old Testament is hard, tough love, there is mercy mixed with revenge. It's the fresh and salt water coming out the same spigot.
Did God have a prideful nature?
He claimed everything he made was very good.
He commanded that no one should bow down to anyone but him.
He claimed he was a jealous God.
Everything that Nebuchadnezzar had become, "all this I have created by myself" , it got the better of him.
God got so angry with mankind that he destroyed them in his wrath.
He was sorry he even ever created man in the first place.

All these "negative" traits have to come from the same place all the "positive" ones do.
Some can argue it was Satan who first rebelled, and that's fine, but rebellion had to come from in order to be found in him.

The New Testament tells us that Jesus humbled himself even unto death on a cross.
The Bible says that Pride goeth before a fall.
The bible also said that Jesus had to deal with all those compassions that even get the better of us sometimes.
That way he could relate to the battle that goes on inside a man's soul.

The very idea of disobedience and rebellion were already in Adam and Eve before they took af that fruit.
Which means they had to be created with that "flaw" already in them.
And if it is a "flaw" then how did it get there? Was it placed there for a purpose?

How can man be perfect before God if there is no need for perfection?
The bible also says that when Adam and Eve ate the fruit they became as God knowing good and evil.
Because God knows evil doesn't mean he is evil. But evil had to be manifested from somwhere. And it had to have a purpose.

In order for man to be perfected, did God himself have to first rise to a state of pride, be willing to humble himself.
in order for there to be no excuse?

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

What does it mean to be without sin?
I believe it means that God never stopped believing in himself.
There was a point for him to hand it all over to human nature and become what he had created,
instead of the created becoming like Him.
And he overcame death.
Which in a spiritual sense to me means, he never forgot who he was or where he came from.
He never relinqueshed the throne.
How could he, after all He is God.

These just my thoughts...
And God said, Let there be Light.
Before Light came into the world, the world lay in death and destruction.
We had been this way before. And will again.
Yet in every new creation we come one step closer to the perfection God intended us to be.

Is it possible to have a character, a set of traits, that God could not fully grasp, where it came from, or how it got there?

This my faulty human mind just thinking..
Hugs
 
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MatthewG

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Ziggy the only thing I can say to what you post, we are not God. And at this it would seem to humble and put fear (awe) into a person.

If we bring down God to our own level, we can make God out to be just like us, and I believe that personally is a faulty standard. Making God like an old grandpa.

God created us in his image, to have a living soul (mind/will/emotion), however God is good, and God is love. Adam and Eve partook of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, this why in our own hearts we know good and evil. Some people will live and live darkness at least until the light is turned on and we look to the one who gives life, and was sent to correct what Adam failed at being the second Adam (Yeshua).

This is what scripture suggest to do, is to humble ourselves before God.

James 4:6 But he gives us more grace. That is why Scripture says: “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”

James 4:10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
 
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LearningToLetGo

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Sometimes the blender needs to remember that all its power comes from the socket and not itself.

That is to say:

We live on the world that God created.
We breathe the air that God created.
We eat the food that God created.
We drink the water that God created.
We are warmed by the sun that God created.
We gaze in awe at the stars that God created.
We live and love, feel joy and sadness in the bodies that God created.

Yet we feel prideful in ourselves and judge one another relative to ourselves. We place those we deem better on pedestals and worship them as fleshly idols while pushing aside and stepping over those we deem worthless. We genuflect before the rich and curse the poor. We truly are lost.
 

MatthewG

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Also Isaiah 57: For thus says the High and Lofty One Who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, With him who has a contrite and humble spirit, To revive the spirit of the humble, And to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
 
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MatthewG

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That is to say:

We live on the world that God created.
We breathe the air that God created.
We eat the food that God created.
We drink the water that God created.
We are warmed by the sun that God created.
We gaze in awe at the stars that God created.
We live and love, feel joy and sadness in the bodies that God created.

Yet we feel prideful in ourselves and judge one another relative to ourselves. We place those we deem better on pedestals and worship them as fleshly idols while pushing aside and stepping over those we deem worthless. We genuflect before the rich and curse the poor. We truly are lost.

John 17:3 And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

What you stated reminds me of this scripture.
 
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MatthewG

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Not everyone is lost, some people have been found: Just as Jesus had talked about the Parable of the Ruler with the two sons, one went out but realized his need for his Father and came back.

There are those who are lost in darkness and can not see clearly though, and they are people who need help with us of being kind, gentle, humble and to help see the light is to bring the light in, and the light of the world is and only ever will be the Lord Jesus (Yeshua), who is the light of the world.

In thankfulness to all of you who have been patient with me and dealing with me and my responses it is all to try to edify and encourage to continue in faith, and continue to seek God and continue to reflect on life and how the Almighty perhaps has changed you from the darkness into the light (Colossians 1).

May peace and grace from God our Father be with you, and the spirit of Christ lead you to continue to seek out and give praise to the one who is worthy who gave you newness of life.
 
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Ziggy

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If we bring down God to our own level, we can make God out to be just like us, and I believe that personally is a faulty standard. Making God like an old grandpa.
I hear you, and that's what I meant by hoping not to offend the hearer.
I'm not bringing God down to our level. But rather, God allowed himself to feel the same emotions he had given to man.
The OT is like the book of the earthy. Everything is based on carnal nature.
It is the darkness before the dawn.

God is absolutely Love, but he also knows what it is to Hate.
That does not mean God is hateful, it simply means he knows what it is because it is an attribute of God.
Now hate can be used two ways. You can hate sin and this is positive, or you can hate the sinner and this is negative.

I hear this:
2Co 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Everything that comes from God is a positive. yea.
When used rightly it all works for good.
When used wrongly it becomes negative. nay.
This ability to use these qualities according to how we understand them, can either be yea or nay.
These are what makes man in the image and likeness of God.
Our ability to reason. Our ability to determine how these qualities should be used.

God created in man a mind of his own.
In this mind is both good and evil. The wheat and the tares if you will.

Where do thorns, thistles and tares come from?
The bible tells us in the parable of the wheat and tares that an enemy hath sown them.
But where did the seeds of these come from?
Do they just naturally grow from the earth or are they planted?
Serious question.. I have to look it up because I don't know.

Thorns, spines, and prickles
In plant morphology, thorns, spines, and prickles, and in general spinose structures, are hard, rigid extensions or modifications of leaves, roots, stems or buds with sharp, stiff ends, and generally serve the same function: physically deterring animals from eating the plant material.

Extensions or modifications.. well that explains it.

The first thing that came to mind was concerning adding things:
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

The first thing Eve did was "add" to what God had told them concerning the tree of knowledge.
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Why is this important? This "touching" became an extension or a modification to God's word. It became a thorn or a tare.
Starting in Exodus and all through Leviticus, the act of "touching" things unclean could lead to death.

Lev 5:2 Or if a soul touch any unclean thing, whether it be a carcase of an unclean beast, or a carcase of unclean cattle, or the carcase of unclean creeping things, and if it be hidden from him; he also shall be unclean, and guilty.
Lev 5:3 Or if he touch the uncleanness of man, whatsoever uncleanness it be that a man shall be defiled withal, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty.

So then man himself is the enemy which by extension or modification of God's word, sabotages himself.
And then teaches others to do the same. So the tares multiply along with the wheat.
And the more we add, the more tares are created.
We do this.

@MatthewG Thank You for your patience.
Hugs
 

Ziggy

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So what is pride an extension of?
Or what was it that was modified for pride to become a thorn?

Self-righteousness?
hmm
thinking..
 

Grailhunter

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Ya got to be carful about the literal interpretations....when to take them literal and when not to.
I know it confuses people.
Pluck your eyes out and cut your hands off to keep from sinning.
There is a scripture that says that respecting other people is one of greatest sins.
What is love without respect? Particularly with your wife.
Paul barely gave consent to marriage.
The New Testament does not say a whole lot about romantic love.
Sex is never given a positive spin, married or not.
Mark 10:25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

So what does the Bible say about pride....
Proverbs 11:2 “When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.”
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the Lord is hatred of evil. Pride and arrogance and the way of evil and perverted speech I hate.
1st John 2:16 For all that is in the world—the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions—is not from the Father but is from the world.
What Does the Bible Say About Pride?

The early Christians took a lot of this literal and it caused a lot of horrible and evil things.

Misery, a religion of misery.....and low self esteem....with a smile on your face. Is that what Christianity is about?

One of the early Church Fathers said if a man loved his wife he was commuting adultery. Why would he say this? Well from their point of view, a man should only love God. They believed that women were the instruments of the devil to tempt good men and lead them to perditions and away from God. That is why they were celebrate and hid in the trees. That is why they tortured and chopped women up and burnt them in the 13th century and on.
Why did they say these things? Well it takes a little bit to understand these things.
So a bit of friendly advise....be careful of the literal if it has a negative message....there is a meaning there, just be careful.

I can say that they were talking about the extremes of these topics. And people have been taking it wrong ever since. But most will not get that. There is a religious literary style in this time period, and until you understand that....there are things in the Bible you are not going to understand...or...or...take the meaning wrong.

To be proud of the good things you have done....is a good thing. To be pride-full is a bad thing. If you have a prideful character or disposition it is a bad thing.

What is the alternative?.....Don't do anything that you could possibly be proud of?
 
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MatthewG

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From what Jesus story was about was about someone who was prideful in the mannerism of looking down on others, that is what someone has to watch out for, according to what he is saying. The Religious Pharisees in that day most if not nearly all of them were all looking for ways to kill Jesus because they were jealous of him, and had envy for him as a person.

Thank you for sharing your point of view Grailhunter: There is nothing wrong in being proud of something one has done but it should be something like this:

Galatians 6:4 Pay careful attention to your own work, for then you will get the satisfaction of a job well done, and you won’t need to compare yourself to anyone else.

Also @Ziggy, Satan is the perfect example of pride.

What the Bible says about Satan's Pride
 
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Robert Gwin

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Hello Robert,

You shared Jeremiah 9:
23 Thus says the Yahweh:

“Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom,
Let not the mighty man glory in his might,
Nor let the rich man glory in his riches;
24 But let him who glories glory in this,
That he understands and knows Me,
That I am the Lord, exercising lovingkindness, judgment, and righteousness in the earth.
For in these I delight,” says the Yahweh.

That is an interesting scripture, you also remind me of what Yahweh also hates founded in scripture, Proverbs 6:16-19.

Thank you for sharing.

I smile every time I read that passage Matt and think about their being 3 kinds of people in this world, those that can count, and those that cant. ;)
 

MatthewG

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I smile every time I read that passage Matt and think about their being 3 kinds of people in this world, those that can count, and those that cant. ;)

The passages are humbling to me sir.

God is an all consuming fire, and holy, just and right. No one can come to him and be able to stand in front of him and live, for His light and radiance only as he is a spirit would kill us.

It is amazing the God whom is love, and is good, and it’s all because of Jesus that we can even be made right before God due to Jesus and his righteousness my friend.

There are some people unfortunately lost in darkness and blinded that they believe their own self-righteousness will merit them the ability to enter into the kingdom of heavenly Jerusalem but even Jesus says this.

Matthew 10

But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven.

Now I don’t believe this just a one time deal and God just cuts the person off but through this life we will have a lifetime of confessions in which we profess Christ that build up over time, and God is looking at our hearts and he knows them even the secrets hidden in them.

Praise be to God who desires for us to look to his son, and live by faith and share the good news in which he has done in accomplishing over all things that today we may have new spiritual life and die to our old ways and live for Yahweh and his will.
 

mailmandan

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There are some people unfortunately lost in darkness and blinded that they believe their own self-righteousness will merit them the ability to enter into the kingdom of heavenly Jerusalem...
Sadly, this is so true. :( Over the years on various Christian forum sites, I have run across numerous people who remind me of the Pharisee (who represents those who are confident of their own righteousness and look down on everyone else) in the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. (Luke 18:9-14)
 

Lambano

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Having come from a background in which was seen by me as elevated above others in my life, it caused me to have a lot of pride over others and to look at them, and despise them all the while in my own mind I was right. Is this the effect of bad pride? And is it okay to take pride in God who does help us in our lives but to do it in humbleness and not in a haughty (puffed up) manner?
That's like saying, should you take pride in a job well done?
I think you should be pleased with a good accomplishment.

Matthew, you've identified the bad kind of pride. The mindset that one is superior to others, whether it's being smarter, having more education, being more spiritual, living more righteously...

Probably everybody here has it to some extent. I know I've got it; I probably just don't realize how bad I've got it.
 
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Lambano

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If you've read C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity, he identifies Pride as the quintessential human sin

According to Christian teachers, the essential vice, the utmost evil, is Pride. Unchastity, anger, greed, drunkenness, and all that, are mere fleabites in comparison...Does this seem exaggerated? If so, think it over. I pointed out a moment ago that the more pride one had, the more one disliked pride in others. In fact, if you want to find out how proud you are, the easiest way is to ask yourself, ‘How much do I dislike it when other people snub me, or refuse to take any notice of me, or shove their oar in, or patronize me, or show off?’ The point is that each person’s pride is in competition with everyone else’s pride. ... Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. We say that people are proud of being rich, or clever, or good-looking, but they are not. They are proud of being richer, or cleverer, or good-looking than others. ...

Teachers, in fact, often appeal to a boy's pride, or, as they call it, his self-respect, to make him behave decently. Many a man has overcome cowardice, or lust, or ill-temper, by learning to think that they are beneath his dignity—that is, by pride. The Devil laughs. He is perfectly content to see you becoming chaste and brave and self-controlled...provided, all the time, he is setting up in you the Dictatorship of Pride—just as he would be quite content to see your chilbains cured if he was allowed, in return, to give you cancer. For pride is spiritual cancer: it eats up the very possibility of love, or contentment, or even common sense.


- C.S. Lewis
 

Matthias

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John 17:3 And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.

What you stated reminds me of this scripture.

Your quotation of what Jesus said in that scripture to, and about, his God reminded me of something I read.

“God is not just any deity but a distinct divine person. … ‘Yahweh (or Yahweh of hosts) is his name.’ There is encounter here with the definite person of God.”

(Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, Abridged in One Volume, “The Name Yahweh as a Concept of Experience,” p. 489)

The God and Father of Jesus is “the definite person of God.”

Life, the life of the coming age, is connected with knowing “the definite person of God” and knowing Jesus Christ, whom “the definite person of God” sent.

That in turn reminded me of what Jesus said in John 14:1 “You believe in God [the definite person of God], believe also in me.”
 

MatthewG

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Matthew, you've identified the bad kind of pride. The mindset that one is superior to others, whether it's being smarter, having more education, being more spiritual, living more righteously...

Probably everybody here has it to some extent. I know I've got it; I probably just don't realize how bad I've got it.

Lambano, my friend Jesus identified it, praise God for whom he had sent.

When I first became a Christian I would look at other people and say these sinners are not like me, they do not read their bible or pray to God like I do. That was my first introduction of being a Babe in Christ - not knowing anything at all progressively and through prayer asking God to help me understand what is going on, a teacher finally showed up and then I started really learning a lot about the Bible.

The Word of God is the most powerful tool a person can use to be able to allow God to renew a persons heart and mind through faith in the Lord Yeshua Christ, and we can become dead to the pride - (even if it rises up - we have God with us and we can pray and say God I know I am not better than anyone why I am having these thoughts like this please help me, remind me I am not better than anyone else and it is all your Son who accomplished everything so that we can have freedom, from these dark thoughts).

If you've read C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity, he identifies Pride as the quintessential human sin

According to Christian teachers, the essential vice, the utmost evil, is Pride. Unchastity, anger, greed, drunkenness, and all that, are mere fleabites in comparison...Does this seem exaggerated? If so, think it over. I pointed out a moment ago that the more pride one had, the more one disliked pride in others. In fact, if you want to find out how proud you are, the easiest way is to ask yourself, ‘How much do I dislike it when other people snub me, or refuse to take any notice of me, or shove their oar in, or patronize me, or show off?’ The point is that each person’s pride is in competition with everyone else’s pride. ... Pride gets no pleasure out of having something, only out of having more of it than the next man. We say that people are proud of being rich, or clever, or good-looking, but they are not. They are proud of being richer, or cleverer, or good-looking than others. ...

Teachers, in fact, often appeal to a boy's pride, or, as they call it, his self-respect, to make him behave decently. Many a man has overcome cowardice, or lust, or ill-temper, by learning to think that they are beneath his dignity—that is, by pride. The Devil laughs. He is perfectly content to see you becoming chaste and brave and self-controlled...provided, all the time, he is setting up in you the Dictatorship of Pride—just as he would be quite content to see your chilbains cured if he was allowed, in return, to give you cancer. For pride is spiritual cancer: it eats up the very possibility of love, or contentment, or even common sense.


- C.S. Lewis

Interestingly enough, the person who wrote Dante's Inferno one of the first sins in his trips he talked about was Pride, so thank you for taking time to share what C.s. Lewis had to say. I have a sudden deep infinity for God and respect for him these days now having been a christian for a short period of time Lambano.

Here is also something that Yahweh - the God the Living God of Israel we serve through Christ, also says that he hates and despises.

Proverbs 6:16-19. The first mention is haughty eyes - which is room in the greek and it means - A primitive root; to be high actively to rise or raise (in various applications, literally or figuratively).

It is not something God desires for us to do being proud and as though we are above other people.

Thank you for taking time to share.
 
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