He's looking for the fruit that proves our faith. Trees without fruit will be cut down and burned in the end....ie, goats and tares.
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What is your notion of Christian exclusivity?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
This is true also (and should be of concern to the sola fide crowd), but these are the ethnon, the Nations, the non-elect (to a Jewish audience), who don't know Him and thus must ask, "When did we see you hungry?"
It's a very straight-forward reading, actually. The only assumption is that Jesus said exactly what He meant and meant exactly what He said, nothing more, nothing less. But it requires a perspective shift to see it. You have to drop 400 years of theological baggage.
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I'm not very good at playing twenty questions, lol....think it would be better if you just tell me straight up what you are seeing there...?
I think Jesus is referring to those among the nations who would believe and be part of His flock...and that this would likely include Hebrews as well who had been scattered among the nations, but I'm not sure what it is you want to point out.
Oh, are you thinking it is about how believers are to treat the Jews, or Jewish brethren? Maybe that is part of it too, there can be more than one layer to what is being said. Or how believers are to minister to needs and help one another in general...His brethren, Jew or Gentile. Though the whole chapter of Matt 25 is about His kingdom.....those who are part of His kingdom but some will end up with wrath.....parable of the talents and parable of the ten virgins. I take it that it's all reiterating much the same message basically, but maybe each parable is addressing different aspects of the Christian walk.
What are you - some sort of self-appointed Zen master who deals only in cryptic one-liners? Does a dog have the Buddha nature? What is the sound of one hand clapping? Try actually engaging in something like a conversation, Grasshopper, and I'll respond accordingly.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I don't think obtaining Eternal Life is just a matter of being "in the right place at the right time," or "receiving visions of Christ." The idea is not just about making sure someone "sees the TV show" before he or she dies. It is really about giving people the opportunity to be witnesses while we live. This is what brings the most glory to God--not just getting people into His Kingdom--He can do that now, through visions, or He can do it after death because they were ignorant.
The big thing is God gets glory when people *testify.* That's why He wants us to get saved now, because it shows the world it has no excuse for rejecting God and for choosing to live in sin. If people who have it equally as hard still choose to love God, then it proves nobody has an excuse to reject love, to reject God.
Someone sarcastically questioned: "I suppose to get Saved I need to have the right PIN?" Well, yes, you have to have the right name--Jesus. But it isn't just a matter of saying the word "Jesus." Rather, it is about showing that people who have suffered can nevertheless conform to the image of God's Son. This indicts the world on the charge of "fake excuses." Then the world can be judged for not heeding the warning, and God can make the world anew around people who choose love even in their suffering, and not just "get into heaven" after death.
Some will understand this....
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Although this is the common understanding, I reject it as false.
Some deny the claim that all roads lead to God given John 14:6. I clarify that all roads lead to Jesus as God gave him all authority in heaven and Earth. Now, here is where logic falls most in Christendom.
- If I say, "If you give me the blanket, I'll give you $10," it does NOT mean that I will only give you $10 under that condition.
- Furthermore, if I say "If you take out an insurance policy, you will be guaranteed not to lose money," does NOT mean you are guarenteed to lose money if you don't meet the requirement.
My frustration with many in Christendom is the dogmatic investment in their doctrines and refusal to do the will of God. The threads railing against God's gift of the Sabbath is a great example of this. As a mature Christian, I do not consider it divine to be stingy in extending the grace of salvation. Instead of looking for a way to do the least I can possibly do to be saved, I consider accepting Christ as my lord so that I may be a better servant of God.
It is an honor to serve God. It is the highest honor. Rather than follow Jesus to be saved, it is more honorable to submit to his lordship so you will be useful in the Kingdom ... Hope this helps.
| 1co 11:1 | Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. |
The "we" of course includes all of us on this forum who have access to scriptures written in languages we are able to understand and the Holy Spirit to lead us as God would direct us.
Are we all still seeking, asking and knocking? Is there a moment in ones naturally available life to stop those things? How much does God know beyond what any man knows? How much is available that God shares with anyone who still hungers and thirsts after the righteousness God offers? When, if ever, are we full of all that He has to offer?
Is our Light indeed shining before men as it should?
| Mt 5:16 | Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. |
"Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life." John 8:12
Yes, I agree, witnessing is important.....bible says on the strength of two or three witnesses let everything be established. I believe hearing two or three witnesses prepares the way for the Lord....so we do need to witness......I had heard two witnesses before that Sunday the Lord drew me. There is some mystery as to why some get saved while others don't, and we only know and understand in part, this side of the veil.
The thing is it's a work of the Lord when someone is saved, a work of His Spirit, which includes how He works to arrange circumstances. And typically He chooses to use the foolishness of preaching, but I believe He has demonstrated that He is not limited to that.
I get how some verses by themselves could be taken according to your $10 analogy. However, keep in mind that other verses affirm and clarify what is meant by those $10 verses. For example the ones that say "except you be born again you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven", and "no man comes to the Father but by me". We always need to look at the whole counsel of God and not just isolated verses.
I myself don't rail against sabbath-keeping. I believe what Paul wrote, that it is between God and the individual. But I also believe what He said about not letting anyone judge/rule me in that matter....for the same reason, because whether I keep sabbaths or not is also between me and the Lord.
Same to you, and no letting up of course.....a brother in arms and of Christ
Agree with your post in the main...except one point...I don't see any room in God's word that some can be saved after death....? Bible says it is appointed unto man but once to die and then the judgment. It seems contradictory to say that God wants us to testify so that nobody has an excuse...and then say some have the excuse of ignorance so they can be saved after death? Especially when the word says man is without excuse because even creation itself testifies of Him.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You are not clarifying but confusing with these verses. This is because you are changing the subject from salvation of nonbelievers.
Enter the kingdom all you want. Go to the Father all you want. These are other subjects worthy of consideration.
That is how non believers are saved.....begotten of the Father, of His Spirit, not by the will of man. Translated out of the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light. Isn't that how you were saved?
1Pe 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Jo 5:1
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Pe 1:22-23
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
From my perspective,
I believe people who seek Yahava, the God above all gods, in faith: regardless of their culture understanding, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim. Yahava is found to speak to all human beings on earth.
Through Creation.
Through consciousness.
Through the process of Israel and their relationship with Yahava and always having problems in staying true to him, and love him, however the Law which had been given to them, they would start to worship the Law, and the Laws of their Fathers they had kept due tradition, and their hearts consumed by envy and hatred for the Son of God.
Through the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.
Through the letters, of the others which are available to read.
And of course by the Spirit.
I believe Yahava is good, fair, just, and is a perfect judge to know the heart above all else; which he can see and read and nothing is hidden from the knowing of what one has done.
However all during this life; all of us: daily must make the choice to place Yahava into their lives, pray continually and for all people, and go do good to your enemies, and pick up your own individual cross daily, and people who seek to Love God, though they can have issues, be it religion, not understanding, all the senseless babble that comes through the waves of the air sometimes may distract, the world and the vines it grows and can tend to entangle one even begin to quench the spirit.
May Yahava continue to call to all, and to continue to work with everyone where they are at, like when Neb had made order for people to be burned in this huge pot that was used for killing them. Yahava made a way for them not to be hurt. God continuously desires to work with us. The thing is he won’t do it; if you are not willingly to let go of something else.
If anyone teaches the Bible; hope you don’t hate on other religions just cause they exist. It’s organizations that have power to manipulate however that doesn’t mean everyone in there is manipulated, some may just have misconceptions.
Anyone from any religion or race, or gender are able to have access to Him, due to his Son, having victory over all things.
People in other religions who believe there is a true and living God; will always be faithful towards Yahava despite disposition, religious acts (such as the Eastern Orthodoxy) may have the spirit of Christ within them and they just don’t quite understand it yet, as all new people have milk, and meat at sometime or another.
@O'Darby
and having to get to know a bit more about our Father who adopts us into the heavenly kingdom, birthed by the spirit in the now working together with Yahava, in faith, dying to our own will, by the Holy Spirit of Yahava, there will be heavenly attributes that flow from within us that comes from the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ is the one whom does the good through us.I believe people who seek Yahava, the God above all gods, in faith: regardless of their culture understanding, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim. Yahava is found to speak to all human beings on earth.
Through Creation.
Through consciousness.
Through the process of Israel and their relationship with Yahava and always having problems in staying true to him, and love him, however the Law which had been given to them, they would start to worship the Law, and the Laws of their Fathers they had kept due tradition, and their hearts consumed by envy and hatred for the Son of God.
Through the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.
Through the letters, of the others which are available to read.
And of course by the Spirit.
I believe Yahava is good, fair, just, and is a perfect judge to know the heart above all else; which he can see and read and nothing is hidden from the knowing of what one has done.
However all during this life; all of us: daily must make the choice to place Yahava into their lives, pray continually and for all people, and go do good to your enemies, and pick up your own individual cross daily, and people who seek to Love God, though they can have issues, be it religion, not understanding, all the senseless babble that comes through the waves of the air sometimes may distract, the world and the vines it grows and can tend to entangle one even begin to quench the spirit.
May Yahava continue to call to all, and to continue to work with everyone where they are at, like when Neb had made order for people to be burned in this huge pot that was used for killing them. Yahava made a way for them not to be hurt. God continuously desires to work with us. The thing is he won’t do it; if you are not willingly to let go of something else.
If anyone teaches the Bible; hope you don’t hate on other religions just cause they exist. It’s organizations that have power to manipulate however that doesn’t mean everyone in there is manipulated, some may just have misconceptions.
Anyone from any religion or race, or gender are able to have access to Him, due to his Son, having victory over all things.
People in other religions who believe there is a true and living God; will always be faithful towards Yahava despite disposition, religious acts (such as the Eastern Orthodoxy) may have the spirit of Christ within them and they just don’t quite understand it yet, as all new people have milk, and meat at sometime or another.
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