What Keeps Us From Sinning In Heaven?

[CharismaticLady]

Well, that cuts, but I'm not catering to your delusion. The poll is voluntary, so there's always the abstinence option, but I guess you'll have to do what your nature tells you to do as well. Although I feel I must warn you that when someone insists on picking a fight, my natural inclination is avoidance--not very satisfying to the fight-picker, usually.

I'm not that spineless. I'll stand for the truth even if I get beheaded.

 

[DPMartin]

Honestly, what will our edge over Lucifer, and Adam and Eve be?

UPDATE: I can't understand why Christian people are so ready to tell people (even other Christians) whom they don't even know that they "don't understand the Gospel?" I'm not asking for informational purposes, and it's not meant to be a quiz or imply that I have knowledge unavailable to other Christians or even other people, in general. For many people, the Gospel is as simple as "While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8) and for them, the rest is just window-dressing. More power to them, I say. I like to dig a little deeper, myself. My purpose here is simply to provoke thought and stimulate discussion. That's all. I'm not looking to "school" anybody. Honestly. I have a theory, but I'm not sure I'm anxious to put a bullseye on it right away. I don't believe that helps to encourage participation in a positive way. Whenever a line in the sand is drawn in a thread by the OP the conversation will (9 times out of 10) descend into a partisan debate, which is when the barbs really start to come out flying.

The thought question is very simple (however frustrating and elusive it may be to some):

What tangible thing will we have at our disposal that the 3 original sinners did not have that will keep us from falling as they did?

There are implications to this question that will occur to many, such as: fairness to the original 3 (e.g. will our advantage constitute unfairness to them?) For some of us, these implications can't just be summarily dismissed. God's honor must be vindicated. Many feel that full disclosure is very important to Him, à la John 16:12. The original 3 fell to temptation, albeit Lucifer somehow must have tempted himself and apparently did not repent as did the Edenic pair. I do not believe an explanation that involves just any theorized difference between our glorified nature and theirs is satisfactory. I pondered this question for over 40 years before stumbling onto an article that made me think there might actually be a solution.

if you've been pondering so much then why don't you know that the nature "human nature" of man has no place in heaven. and only that which is of Heaven may enter Heaven. hence the born of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit which is from Heaven, may be in Heaven.

you have to be born of that which is in the world to be in the world, and you have to be born of that which is in Heaven to be in Heaven.

 

[bbyrd009]

I believe love, when people know what they're doing, keeps them from sinning.

ha yet no matter what you do, someone will criticize it?

 

[Truther]

Read it again, but this time add the context of chapter 8. Chapter 7 is the conclusion of Paul's teaching of those who only had the Law of Moses to live by, trying to be kept with only a carnal nature vs. 13. Jesus in chapter 8 frees us from sin, thus freeing us from the Law of Moses. Therefore we are no longer under the Law. We are under the law of the SPIRIT of life in Christ.

Romans 8:9 is saying we are not in that old carnal nature, we are in the Spirit, IF we have the Spirit of God indwelling us. The Spirit changes us more and more into the likeness of Christ as we obey His leading through the divine nature, and never quench Him.

By the way, who taught you that out of context explanation of chapter 7? Oy vey! These are the latter days when the falling away from the Truth happens.

Chapter 7 says that Paul struggled with the old man, right?

..."that which I would not that I do"...etc.

 

[bbyrd009]

I put Other.

We will be given glorified bodies that are free from the presence of sin. We will be incapable of sinning, not because we have been made into robots; but because we have been made into new creatures in Christ (to more of an extent than now; in our physical bodies as well as what is now, that our spirits are made born again).

A dog or swine returns to its vomit or wallowing in the mire. Place a pig in the palace and it will run to the mud the first chance it gets. Put a sheep in the mud and it will run to water the first chance it gets.

In the now, we have been made like sheep. There is still mud and vomit in this world that we may come in contact with. When we get to heaven, there will be no mud or vomit to come into contact with; there is no sin in heaven. So it is a double whammy. Not only are we adverse to coming into contact with sin, but there is no sin to come into contact with. If we wanted to have contact with sin, we would have to go out of heaven in order to have that contact. I suppose that that will be an option; for free will is something that the Lord will not take away.

But He changes our nature so that we don't have a desire for sin. And in the absence of its presence, there will be no opportunity to do what is wrong. If we did exercise our free will to do what is wrong, even against the atmosphere of heaven, then we would very likely be cast out; for it would be a greater offence than when we sin against the Lord today, in bodies that are afflicted by the presence of sin.

we have got the notion that "eternity" means "forever" yeh, when that cannot be extracted from "aion," and No one has ever gone up to heaven?

 

[marks]

@marks

Hope is NOW before you die. Once dead you no longer have hope.

Well, yes.

Every one who has THIS HOPE purifies himself, even as He is pure. What hope is that? He said, everyone who has THIS HOPE.

That hope is that when we see Him, we WILL BE like Him.

Hope . . . the expected end of our faith.

For instances . . . our faith is in Jesus, and His promise of the resurrection. Our hope is the be raised from the dead. We believe what Jesus said, so this is what we are expecting to happen. We hope in the resurrection is another way to say, I believe when the Bible promises us resurrection, and so I expect to be raised from the dead.

We know that when we see Him, we will be like Him. But how can we even be certain we'll be transformed to be like Him when we see Him, if we can't be sure we will "remain saved"?

Much love!

 

[amadeus]

@BarnyFife

Amadeus said:
They also were given the ability to disobey God.

Barny said:
And, in the resurrection, we will not be?

Your question does not define "the resurrection". Consider this conversation I had with @VictoryinJesus last year, which I saved to my computer:

Better Resurrection 11-23-2019

VictoryinJesus said:

I haven’t read about Hannah so I can’t really comment. Wish I could, but she hasn’t come up yet I guess.

I Samuel 1:1-28 covers the story of Hannah and her prayer, her vow and the keeping of her vow and her son, Samuel the judge and prophet who was to anoint both Saul and David as kings of Israel. It is a very interesting read when you have the time.

Was thinking about a verse this morning...Not sure if it has anything at all to do with your comment above but maybe you have some input on it? Hebrews 11:35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

Amadeus said:
I've not heard anyone speak about this in quite a while. I am not sure that it directly relates, but maybe. There were some brethren where I attended who on occasion spoke about "better resurrections". It may relate in part to the difference between promises of life offered in the OT and the promise of Life provided in the NT:

"With long life will I satisfy him, and show him my salvation." Psalm 91:16

"My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:
For length of days, and long life, and peace, shall they add to thee." Prov 3:1-2

That was the promise in the OT... but as you see by the verse you cited there was to be a better resurrection as Jesus makes clear here:

"And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" John 11:26

Instead of simply a longer life, it was to be a never ending Life. In Heb 11:35 they are brought up from the grave perhaps here...

"And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many." Matt 27:52-53

Some of those OT saints lived well before God, but seemingly they were only promised a longer life as a man of flesh on planet Earth. This speaks of their opportunity to obtain the unending Life which Jesus brought. Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

Time is not an issue with God, but with men. Anyone truly already born again [born from above or born of God] has already been resurrected... that is, risen from the death in which we all existed as 'walking dead' [?] before we met Jesus.

What I see is men growing now to be like Him now while still in the process of overcoming. This is those who have already been resurrected [born again]. Can we still in this situation disobey God? While it is never a good idea, it is, I believe, certainly possible. Adam and Eve did... and I believe that we can. When our course here [allotted time as a man of flesh subject to temptations] if finished will we still be tempted? That depends I would say upon exactly where we are then. Now as I believe it there are the three heavens. If heavenly angels [as opposed to men sent as messengers by God] did sin in heaven, I don't believe it was ever in 3rd heaven. I don't believe it is possible in 3rd heaven. But I won't get into details on what the three heavens might be and really derail your thread.

Amadeus said:
Our disadvantage compared to Jesus

Barny said:
Christology is another discussion, entirely, no?

Another something for certain!

Amadeus said:
When you read the Bible with understanding, that can be God speaking to you.

Then he has spoken to me many times.

He has, I believe, spoken to anyone who has ever been in a measure a real believer in Him. Understanding this may help us to know what it means to be one of His sheep:

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4

It is better to be a sheep than to be a goat as being on the right hand of God is better than being on His left hand!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Chapter 7 says that Paul struggled with the old man, right?

..."that which I would not that I do"...etc.

He had been a Pharisee before coming to Christ. Look at Romans 8:2. Who has been freed from the struggle of chapter 7?

 

[CharismaticLady]

That hope is that when we see Him, we WILL BE like Him.

No, marks, we will already be "like Him." That is the purpose of submitting to purifying now.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Truther]

He had been a Pharisee before coming to Christ. Look at Romans 8:2. Who has been freed from the struggle of chapter 7?

Chapter 7 was present tense in Paul's struggle.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Chapter 7 was present tense in Paul's struggle.

So is verse 9. So Paul was over 1300 years old and lived before and after Moses received the Law? Personal present tense is a teaching tool, the same as John used "we" in 1 John 1 of those before and after Christ. (6, 8, 10 unsaved). Those who still had sin in them but said they didn't were liars, and the next verse is what was needed to cleanse them from ALL SIN, making them no longer sinners but children of God 1 John 3:1.

 

[BarneyFife]

if you've been pondering so much then why don't you know that

I've been "pondering so much" because the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.

 

[BarneyFife]

@BarnyFife



Your question does not define "the resurrection". Consider this conversation I had with @VictoryinJesus last year, which I saved to my computer:



Time is not an issue with God, but with men. Anyone truly already born again [born from above or born of God] has already been resurrected... that is, risen from the death in which we all existed as 'walking dead' [?] before we met Jesus.

What I see is men growing now to be like Him now while still in the process of overcoming. This is those who have already been resurrected [born again]. Can we still in this situation disobey God? While it is never a good idea, it is, I believe, certainly possible. Adam and Eve did... and I believe that we can. When our course here [allotted time as a man of flesh subject to temptations] if finished will we still be tempted? That depends I would say upon exactly where we are then. Now as I believe it there are the three heavens. If heavenly angels [as opposed to men sent as messengers by God] did sin in heaven, I don't believe it was ever in 3rd heaven. I don't believe it is possible in 3rd heaven. But I won't get into details on what the three heavens might be and really derail your thread.




Another something for certain!



He has, I believe, spoken to anyone who has ever been in a measure a real believer in Him. Understanding this may help us to know what it means to be one of His sheep:

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice." John 10:4

It is better to be a sheep than to be a goat as being on the right hand of God is better than being on His left hand!

Sorry, I have an annoying habit of switching terms to reduce monotony. In this case, I define "resurrection" as when Christ comes the 2nd time to change us from mortality to immortality, or from corruption to incorruption.

 

[BarneyFife]

@CharismaticLady,
I have added a new option to the poll voting that may be more to your liking. I don't seem to have the option to remove one (probably out of fairness to those who have already selected a particular option). Nevertheless, the option to change votes has always been in place. I think it is the best I can do to accommodate your position. I hope this will put to rest the notion that I had evil intentions or, worse yet, an insidious plot afoot to marginalize someone's or some group's beliefs.

 

[DPMartin]

I've been "pondering so much" because the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know.

since you want to talk about you instead of the subject at hand, then you realize you don't know is quite apparent.

 

[BarneyFife]

that's quite apparent.

Thank you for participating.

 

[BarneyFife]

No, marks, we will already be "like Him." That is the purpose of submitting to purifying now.

5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

But aren't all human beings born in His image? I think hair-splitting and over-emphasis will always lead to error and division.

 

[marks]

No, marks, we will already be "like Him." That is the purpose of submitting to purifying now.

What I'm speaking to is the certainty. There is a reason that we can be certain.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, marks, we will already be "like Him." That is the purpose of submitting to purifying now.

1 John 3
2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

When He appears we will be like Him. Fully like Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No, marks, we will already be "like Him." That is the purpose of submitting to purifying now.

In your view, are you not already purified?