What Keeps Us From Sinning In Heaven?

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How will we keep from sinning throughout eternity?


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BarneyFife

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yes, there are: 1) the atmoshpere, 2) outer space, and, 3) the third heaven where the throne of the Lord is located and where the saints will live in eternity.
This is my understanding as well.
Hair-splitting may lead to division but it is also important because it has to do with coming to the knowledge of the exact truth. Perhaps we should not divide over hair-splitting options; however in your personal growth, having the exact truth of scripture can be helpful in your fight against the devil.
But while sharpening our swords on each others', we have to be careful not to venture into Titus 3:9 territory. And speaking of Titus 3:9, I think people make a mistake by interpreting the word "law" as meaning the ten commandments every time Paul utters it. These people often meant "the Bible" when they said "the law." Scholars argue over this constantly.

I confess that I definitely believe in absolute truth, which will instantly be viewed by some as a divisive statement.
 

Stumpmaster

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Hey, wake up and have faith in our sanctifying Saviour Jesus Christ.

Eph 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the ekklesia, and gave himself for it; (26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, (27) That he might present it to himself a glorious ekklesia, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Col 1:21-23
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled (22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (23) If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Jud 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, (25) To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Joh 15:1-3 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. (2) Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit. (3) Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
 

amadeus

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@justbyfaith
Amadeus said:
Now as I believe it there are the three heavens.
justbyfaith said:
yes, there are: 1) the atmoshpere, 2) outer space, and, 3) the third heaven where the throne of the Lord is located and where the saints will live in eternity.
I hear you on this for I have read it before on forums, but it is not what I see on it. I won't detail it here and now.

Amadeus said:
I am a Bible student also in a sense, but the Bible alone [sola scriptura?] combined with carnal mind of man even with 'good' intentions causes a lot of confusion and establishes quite often some more denominations.
justbyfaith said:
Yes, the carnal mind is the problem (not the revelation of holy scripture). If people held the Bible to be the inspired word of God, and also did not think carnally, there would be a unity of the faith.
The only way that people can always get it right is to always be in the Spirit led by the Spirit. Most, if not all, church groups [assemblies] practice quenching the Spirit and teach people in attendance to do the same thing. When is the last time you attended or even visited an assembly with no man made rules in place? The only Leader was always the Holy Spirit? There are some better than others, but I have never found one among the best in my experience that did not fall short in that respect.

The established order of service and the necessity of arranging beforehand to speak before the congregation kills most of whatever 'good' they may have otherwise. Consider the order that God set for the natural children of Israel in the wilderness. In spite of that, how many murmured and complained and how many died in wilderness never even seeing the Promised Land?

Amadeus said:
But too many people want to be the Head

justbyfaith said:
Some people are members of the body that are located in the Head (such as the eye or ear or tongue).
The Head I am talking about is not any one of those attachments or extra, but the one that would actually correspond to the brain in a human body.

"... even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ,... Eph 5:23-24

The eyes and the ears and the tongue are the ones most out of control:

"For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Mark 13:15

"Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.:" James 3:5-10

But then...

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see" Rev 3:18

"And they bring unto him one that was deaf, and had an impediment in his speech; and they beseech him to put his hand upon him.
And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue;
And looking up to heaven, he sighed, and saith unto him, Ephphatha, that is, Be opened.
And straightway his ears were opened, and the string of his tongue was loosed, and he spake plain." Mark 7:32-35

"And these signs shall follow them that believe;...they shall speak with new tongues;" Mark 16:17
 

BarneyFife

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Hey, wake up and have faith in our sanctifying Saviour Jesus Christ.

Eph 5:25-27
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the ekklesia, and gave himself for it; (26) That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, (27) That he might present it to himself a glorious ekklesia, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Col 1:21-23
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now has he reconciled (22) In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (23) If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Jud 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, (25) To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Joh 15:1-3 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. (2) Every branch in me that bears not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purges it, that it may bring forth more fruit. (3) Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Thank you for participating.
 

amadeus

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I'm disabled, so I have a lot of free time on my hands to study the Bible and even study about studying the Bible. Also, the church to which I belong has several Sabbath/Sunday School classes, and the one I go to uses a lot of technical Theological terms (sorry about that). I wouldn't dare call myself a Theologian. I'm not even entirely sure what one is. I'm pretty sure it requires PhD-level education, and I'm completely devoid of college credit, except for a couple of mandatory classes I attended when I was in the Air Force nearly 40 years ago. And college is a ship which has sailed for me, I think. I never was really interested, anyway. I learned enough stuff that I didn't need to know in grade and high schools. I'm not shelling out for that at this point in my life. :)
Don't apologize too much about it. Unfortunately sometimes we learn things we later may wish that we had not... but the experiences may be needed later... even some of the worst experiences...

PHD's used to shake me up because never having been even on the approach to one, I presumed they really had something special that was way beyond me. Sometimes they might be, but don't count on it.

I attended college and received my BA in 1971, ten years after graduating from high school. I wasn't serving God then and intended to continue to higher degrees. I never made it for reasons not directly involved here. [As it turned out God had something else in mind, but never mind that.]

When I really met Jesus in 1976 and started reading the Bible for the first time in at my life at age 32 as I moved along toward God I found it necessary to unlearn some things I had learned in college. I don't regret my schooling, just some parts of it.

The problem with PHD's in theology is often they got their degrees in the school of some particular denomination and learned well the particular slant of that group and cannot hear anything else... sometimes perhaps including God. They may have understood and now even understand a lot of 'good' things. For people new to God they may be OK to a point so long as they don't insist on trying to pull them inside and then locking the gate. Of course we would not want a new convert, a young proselyte, to encounter something like this:

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." Matt 23:15

Schools should be good places to learn how to learn. Lots of them, it seems to me, are not doing such a good job. Once you know how to proceed, the school, besides being expensive these days, may simply get in your way.

Regarding education these are my opinions and likely some on this forum will disagree...
 

Giuliano

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It looks to me as if some people may be assuming Adam and Eve were in Heaven. I make so such assumption since it reads "garden" ("gan" in Hebrew) which would be "paradise" in the New Testament.

Several problems crop up if we assume Adam and Eve were in Heaven. First we run into a problem with Revelation which shows the Tree of Life in the Holy City.

We run into another problem by equating Paradise with Heaven with the thief on the cross. Jesus told him he would be with him that day in Paradise; but later he told Mary not to touch him since he hadn't visited the Father yet. And could it be that easy to enter Heaven? Jesus said it was hard, so hard that few find the way.

Add to that that Adam and Eve are presented as a "married" couple. Was it His Will that they be married? How could this be if there is no marrying in Heaven? Why did God want them to have children if there are no family relationships in Heaven?
 
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Waiting on him

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It looks to me as if some people may be assuming Adam and Eve were in Heaven. I make so such assumption since it reads "garden" ("gan" in Hebrew) which would be "paradise" in the New Testament.

Several problems crop up if we assume Adam and Eve were in Heaven. First we run into a problem with Revelation which shows the Tree of Life in the Holy City.

We run into another problem by equating Paradise with Heaven with the thief on the cross. Jesus told him he would be with him that day in Paradise; but later he told Mary not to touch him since he hadn't visited the Father yet. And could it be that easy to enter Heaven? Jesus said it was hard, so hard that few find the way.

Add to that that Adam and Eve are presented as a "married" couple. Was it His Will that they be married? How could this be if there is no marrying in Heaven? Why did God want them to have children if there are no family relationships in Heaven?
Psalm 19:1-7 KJV
[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. [2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. [4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. [6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. [7] The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
This in my opinion speaks of the Apostles.
 
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BarneyFife

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Lots of them, it seems to me, are not doing such a good job.
I've listened to some lectures. I even had a subscription to The Great Courses at one time, but it always seemed to me that I couldn't get half-way through a single lecture before I would hear some absolute nonsense. I get embarrassed for learned people who make fools of themselves. That's pretty harsh, I guess, but all too often, as the old popular song goes: "The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand."
 
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BarneyFife

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Psalm 19:1-7 KJV
[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. [2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. [4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. [6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. [7] The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
This in my opinion speaks of the Apostles.
What do you think suggests your interpretation?
 
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CharismaticLady

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Will we have free will, too?

Yes, we won't be robots, but God knows all that will be there will already love God with all our hearts and have no desire to sin. No more tears, no more pain, even emotional, only love.

Romans 8:9
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Revelation 22:11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

Our nature will not change from the born again nature to something even better in heaven. Nor will it go from a carnal nature at death to a divine nature after death.

And in your poll what will happen according to Revelation 22:11 is that:

God will KEEP us functionally incapable of sinning (as we were by the time of our death. Not make. His seed in us already made us free from sin long before death as we walk through life in the Spirit.
 
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amadeus

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I've listened to some lectures. I even had a subscription to The Great Courses at one time, but it always seemed to me that I couldn't get half-way through a single lecture before I would hear some absolute nonsense. I get embarrassed for learned people who make fools of themselves. That's pretty harsh, I guess, but all too often, as the old popular song goes: "The things that pass for knowledge, I can't understand."
Looking back my best memories of the college days are of the fellowship. But... even at that my two best friends were atheists. I never was nor could be although I did try for a while. It would not work. I could not even be an agnostic. My personal experiences with God as a Catholic Altar boy were real. I knew nothing of what the Bible contained other than the stories the nuns told and what the priest would say during mass, but I had encounters with God for certain two times, once at age 6 during Catholic baptism and the second time at age 10 out in a field behind my grandmother's house.

What I heard during my college years really was nonsense, especially in a Philosophy class, but I knew nothing to say and kept my mouth shut. A lot of water under the bridge since then... Both of my friends were smarter than me as far as IQ I guess according to the grade averages... if that means anything, but they were both dummies with regard to some really important things... to me anyway. Nevertheless at the time they were good to me and helped me in some bad situations. God was working on my behalf even then even though I did not know until years later.
 
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Waiting on him

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Isaiah 48:13 KJV
[13] Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.
 
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Giuliano

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Psalm 19:1-7 KJV
[1] The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. [2] Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [3] There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. [4] Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, [5] Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. [6] His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof. [7] The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
This in my opinion speaks of the Apostles.
I can see how it applies to the Apostles. I go more broadly I think: I see it as starting in Genesis and continuing to Revelation.
 
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Waiting on him

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What do you think suggests your interpretation?
Could be any one chosen to proclaim Christ is the heavens.
He sets a tabernacle within them
There’s no speech or language where they are not heard
Paul speakers of running a race
They proclaim His glory
When he calls to them they stand up
I could go on for days
 

Truther

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So is verse 9. So Paul was over 1300 years old and lived before and after Moses received the Law? Personal present tense is a teaching tool, the same as John used "we" in 1 John 1 of those before and after Christ. (6, 8, 10 unsaved). Those who still had sin in them but said they didn't were liars, and the next verse is what was needed to cleanse them from ALL SIN, making them no longer sinners but children of God 1 John 3:1.
Every bit of this is present tense and active to Paul...



7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 

Waiting on him

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Jeremiah 2:12 KJV
[12] Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the Lord.