Brakelite
Well-Known Member
I dunno but that sounds like passing the buck again...I sin cos I can't help it... It's in my nature. It's seems to be there a sense of wanting to evade responsibility.
What Keeps Us From Sinning In Heaven?
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Since the Fall, all human beings are born in the image of Adam. Only those who have been born again will have the likeness of Christ.
If Christian were already "purified" (sinless) there would be no need for them to be perfected and glorified at the Resurrection/Rapture.
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.(1 John 3:3)
I believe that @CharismaticLady already mentioned this and it is what I also believe. Jesus came the 1st time and lived the overcoming example and laid down himself unto death at Calvary. He came again [2nd time for him to you and to me] into anyone born again to purify and perfect us... to remove or destroy the corruption and replace it with incorruption. The time that the Holy Spirit is to work in us... is now... rather than at some point after the dirt is shoveled on our faces. We are overcoming now and purifying now by the power of God in us... or we are not. When our time is finished, what remains? Some burnable, worthless garbage already dead, or something pure and clean and alive? What is the difference between what we are and what Jesus was as a man of flesh?
Is there another resurrection that might be called 2nd? What is the difference between 1st, 2nd and 3rd heavens? Jesus was in all three. Where are we to be? If you don't see answers, simply consider the questions...
Who was made in the image of God. Do you actually deny we are made in the image of God?
Likeness being character
In the beginning of man it was so... that they were in his image, but do you not believe that their image was changed, marred, scarred when they disobeyed God and by and for all of those who followed until Jesus opened a better possibility?
God was never dead and men without the Life that Jesus brought were dead. What kind of an image is that? Certainly not the image of God!
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10
The 2nd advent of Christ has always been considered the parousia, or the physical appearance of Jesus in the clouds of glory to rescue His redeemed at the end of the age. All are free to believe as they like, but I do not spiritualize the order of eschatological events and revise chronology that has been in place for centuries. I find it confusing and unnecessary. The stages of regeneration are complicated enough on their own to me. To mingle them together with prophecy is a novelty I would rather avoid. I suppose this is a matter of mere opinion. What helps one to understand and organize is a hindrance to another. This is what I went through with women's ordination and the human nature of Christ. Perhaps that is why I prefer to keep it simple.
I have to admit that I have very little Pentecostal and/or charismatic leanings, as you must have surmised by now. But I do so value and appreciate your insight, though. I hope and trust it will continue to find favor with me.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Marred, perhaps, but certainly not obliterated. The family unit itself is a model of the Godhead. In eternity past the Trinity was so consumed with love that They had to create other sentient beings to share it with. We procreate to share love with our children. Even unbelievers do this. The image of God is "baked into" us in ways that not even sin could expunge.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Why do you think Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light"? Doing what comes naturally is something you don't even have to think about. It's natural and easy. No burden of having to constantly choose to do something against your nature.
This is why we MUST be born again in order to be His. There will be no sinners in heaven to start the cycle all over again. Only overcomers will be there. No fallen angels or carnal humans.
Many of those things which some people support almost automatically without consideration of scriptures pointing, or seeming to point, to something else I never learned really even in part until arriving regularly at an Internet forum many years ago. This is not all clear to me by any means. A possible difference between the Bride of Christ and the Church apparently amazes some people because I would even consider such a thing. Who is it that comes with Jesus in the clouds... or what are those clouds, if not perhaps the Bride already taken out of the Church but the Church is still be saved? This is only a thought and perhaps a belief, but for some it is heresy or borders on it. No questions please. So then jump into a denomination and already pleases you completely in the place where you already are. The Reformers did it, those who came out with the Reformers continue to jump... each time they have a new thought or revelation. If we were all still together sharing thought and revelations and listening to each other... in the physical churches maybe there would or could be a mover toward the Unity needed...But that won't happen because people fixed in their ATs [Absolute Truths] won't allow it to happen... So here we are on an Internet forum where some interaction is allowed although here too there are many holding to their ATs and wanting heretics [according to them] to be banned... Should each forum then become another restricted denomination. And in such a denomination for each mistake held as an AT, God is left outside with those called heretics.
I wouldn't even understand your words here without having first looking up "eschatological". Some things like that won't stick in my brain and God has not written anything in my heart using that word. I am not against people studying that way, but it got me into trouble about 30 years ago and God taught me a lesson about studying that I will never forget. That part is written in my heart. Can a person love God without being a theology student? [Don't answer that question!]
In response to Paul's request regarding the thorn, the answer was "my grace is sufficient". In effect I say that about things where I lack a specific answer, but some people hear that immediately decide I need a lesson in what "grace" is. Believe me there is more than one on this forum to provide the lesson. Many I would guess are Bible students. I am a Bible student also in a sense, but the Bible alone [sola scriptura?] combined with carnal mind of man even with 'good' intentions causes a lot of confusion and establishes quite often some more denominations.
Most, [or perhaps all], of them will pay lip service to following the lead of the Holy Spirit, but perhaps you have seen some of the arguments about what the Holy Spirit is and what it means for the Holy Spirit to lead: More denominations!
God is complicated but simple. He is complicated for those who don't understand Him at all or for those who try to figure Him out with their own brains alone. He is simple to those to whom He has revealed Himself.
All of these different subjects about God and the Bible on this forums and others, may be needful and useful, but is it necessary for every person to understand it all and agree to all of any one of this or any one of that? God calls different people to be the different parts of the Body of Christ. It is throughout the Bible is you are given to see it, but very simply read I Corinthians chapter 12. Having done that then understand that all of details I need are not necessarily all of the details you or some other part of the Body may need. God will use us to help each other, if we are usable and it is somehow part of our function for the part that we are.
But too many people want to be the Head and that job is already taken for anyone who is can understand it.
For God it is simple! For us our part can be simple if we are always following His Lead! Don't be a theologian, or try to be one, if God did not call you to be one!
So far you have given me no reason to doubt the sincerity of your purpose...On the contrary!
Consider one the blessings Jesus mentions:
"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6
Are you hungry and thirsty for the right thing?
The types and shadows of Reality are there even as a dead corpse looks quite a bit like a breathing person who walks and talks in the flesh...but the dead corpse cannot breathe or walk or talk. The Reality only comes with and through Jesus. For a person to make it right with God a lot of work is needed, but for God it nothing at all. However, God in His plan made it even He can only perform the work with our permission. This is free will. Men take hold of it themselves, grasping their own reins and God is limited or even blocked... The beasts of men have been this way for a very long time... as men view time. As for men, they todays as throughout the scriptures, OT and NT, are their own idols and as such do not resemble God:
"Their idols are silver and gold, the work of men's hands.
They have mouths, but they speak not: eyes have they, but they see not:
They have ears, but they hear not: noses have they, but they smell not:
They have hands, but they handle not: feet have they, but they walk not: neither speak they through their throat.
They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them." Psalms 115:4-8
"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41
That is us, the beasts who were also saved, unclean and clean, in the Ark that Noah built!
"Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish." Psalm 49:12
"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts." Ecc 3:18
But then there has always been hope...
"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts..." Prov 9:1-2
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
yes, there are: 1) the atmoshpere, 2) outer space, and, 3) the third heaven where the throne of the Lord is located and where the saints will live in eternity.
You still have sin in you.
Hair-splitting may lead to division but it is also important because it has to do with coming to the knowledge of the exact truth. Perhaps we should not divide over hair-splitting options; however in your personal growth, having the exact truth of scripture can be helpful in your fight against the devil.
Yes, the carnal mind is the problem (not the revelation of holy scripture). If people held the Bible to be the inspired word of God, and also did not think carnally, there would be a unity of the faith.
Some people are members of the body that are located in the Head (such as the eye or ear or tongue).
I'm disabled, so I have a lot of free time on my hands to study the Bible and even study about studying the Bible. Also, the church to which I belong has several Sabbath/Sunday School classes, and the one I go to uses a lot of technical Theological terms (sorry about that). I wouldn't dare call myself a Theologian. I'm not even entirely sure what one is. I'm pretty sure it requires PhD-level education, and I'm completely devoid of college credit, except for a couple of mandatory classes I attended when I was in the Air Force nearly 40 years ago. And college is a ship which has sailed for me, I think. I never was really interested, anyway. I learned enough stuff that I didn't need to know in grade and high schools. I'm not shelling out for that at this point in my life.
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