What makes a doctrine false?

[Jim B]

When I was a graduate student at the University of Florida, there used to be a young man who would get up on a platform and spout the same judgmental garbage as @amigo de christo does. I NEVER SAW ONE SINGLE PERSON ACCEPT CHRIST BECAUSE OF HIM. Almost every single person would listen for a minute or two and walk away, shaking their heads. Once in a while, someone would question him or disagree with him, which would increase his vitriol to the point that everyone would walk away laughing.

Nobody will ever accept Christ because they are told that they are an evil piece of _____ .

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In contrast here is what Jesus said, "Come to me, all you who are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30

Those are the verses that, when I heard them, convinced me to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Even though I resisted Him for so long, I could not resist His offer to give me spiritual rest. He said that He was "gentle and humble in heart" and that I would find rest for my soul.

Compare that to what I wrote immediately above about the opposite approach used by the young man at the university and @amigo de christo.

 

[Lambano]

When I was a graduate student at the University of Florida, there used to be a young man who would get up on a platform and spout the same judgmental garbage as @amigo de christo does. I NEVER SAW ONE SINGLE PERSON ACCEPT CHRIST BECAUSE OF HIM. Almost every single person would listen for a minute or two and walk away, shaking their heads. Once in a while, someone would question him or disagree with him, which would increase his vitriol to the point that everyone would walk away laughing.

Nobody will ever accept Christ because they are told that they are an evil piece of _____ .

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In contrast here is what Jesus said, "Come to me, all you who are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.” Matthew 11:28-30

Those are the verses that, when I heard them, convinced me to accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Even though I resisted Him for so long, I could not resist His offer to give me spiritual rest. He said that He was "gentle and humble in heart" and that I would find rest for my soul.

I love your testimony - but I don't want to encourage your personal fight-to-the-death with Amigo. Neither one of you is bringing honor to Jesus Christ. And neither one of you is going to change, or sees any reason to change.

 

[rockytopva]

What makes a spirit false? If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - 1 John 1:5

Unfortunately, though, the light and the darkness interact here on planet Earth...Comparing the light and the darkness, the opposite of E/c2 would be z (absolute zero)/ d (darkness)...

Natural z/d - Nothing, empty space.
Mental z/d - Again nothing but empty space.
Spiritual z/d - z (laziness, coldness, hatred) / d (fear, despair, greed, sorrow)

I have met such a variety of spirits.... All within the same mental doctrine! A good doctrine ought to be accompanied with good spirits.

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you... - Galatians 4:19

When the Christ is formed there will be a wonderful motivation, warmth, love, faith, hope, charity, and joy. When those spiritual things do not accompany a doctrine I worry about the so-called truthful teachings.

 

[Lambano]

What makes a doctrine false?

Please quote what you would like to respond to. Thanks.

1. You've never heard it before. (knee-jerk defensive response)

2. You have heard of it before, but assume it's false. (haven't looked into it)

3. Doesn't align with your church's doctrine (your church would say it is false)

4. Doesn't align with your personal doctrine (your views differ)

5. YOUR "Bible" says it is false. (other biblical opinions don't matter)

6. It makes you uncomfortable. (therefore it must be wrong)

7. Everyone knows it's false. (except those who believe it)

Since we all sure we're infallible, I'll take 4 with a side of 6.

 

[Jim B]

I love your testimony - but I don't want to encourage your personal fight-to-the-death with Amigo. Neither one of you is bringing honor to Jesus Christ. And neither one of you is going to change, or sees any reason to change.

Actually, that is not my testimony. I was an atheist and Jesus healed me in the hospital when a pastor read me that verse then prayed "Jesus, heal this man" and that was that! O)f course, that's just a brief summary.

One of the most important things to me about Christianity is that it is based on pure love. "Love" is mentioned 730 times in the Bible and 1 John 4:8 epitomizes it, saying "Whoever does not love does not know God, for God is love."

@amigo writes post after post of just the opposite, so it really bothers me on a fundamental level. The hatred and intolerance that he constantly spews is the exact opposite of the above. It is not the basis of Christianity!

I don't like the "personal fight-to-the-death with Amigo", but I dislike his vicious, cruel, intolerant, unChristian posts even more, When he stops his hatred I will stop rebutting him. But until then...

 

[Wrangler]

What makes a doctrine false?

If I hold it to be true, the doctrine is false.

If I hold the doctrine to be false, it is false.

Beyond that, it has to do with where the Spirit leads you. Keep in mind that doctrines are man-made. The Bible is man-made. And the church is man-made. It is the Spirit that rightly divides. Is it at our pay grade to decide what is false? Identify, yes but decide is more elusive.

 

[St. SteVen]

If I hold it to be true, the doctrine is false.

If I hold the doctrine to be false, it is false.

Wait...
That means ALL doctrines are false. - LOL
I think you are onto something here.

Beyond that, it has to do with where the Spirit leads you. Keep in mind that doctrines are man-made. The Bible is man-made. And the church is man-made. It is the Spirit that rightly divides. Is it at our pay grade to decide what is false? Identify, yes but decide is more elusive.

AMEN

 

[St. SteVen]

A good doctrine ought to be accompanied with good spirits.

I'll drink to that. - LOL

 

[Wrangler]

Wait...
That means ALL doctrines are false. - LOL
I think you are onto something here.

Oops. I meant to say if I hold it to be true, then the doctrine is true.

Of course, IF we were honest AND NOT EGO driven, we'd be willing to test the hypothesis and allow the results to alter the doctrine we hold to be true.

Sadly, most begin with their claim of what is true, then engage in a campaign to destroy any test that invalidates it.

For sure, the more obscure, the more passionate people will be to defend its derived doctrine to the death. No one debates that 1 + 1 = 2 or that man was made on the 6th day.

 

[St. SteVen]

Sadly, most begin with their claim of what is true, then engage in a campaign to destroy any test that invalidates it.

Right. Proof-texting.
Going to the Bible (as an authority) to bolster your own preconceived idea.

 

[Wrangler]

I was thinking of what the word doctrine even means in trying to answer the question of what makes a doctrine right. Turns out that one of the senses of doctrine is dogma. From Definition of DOGMA

dogma​

noun​

dog·ma ˈdȯg-mə
ˈdäg-

plural dogmas also dogmata ˈdȯg-mə-tə
ˈdäg-
Synonyms of dogma
1
a
: something held as an established opinion
especially : a definite authoritative tenet
b
: a code of such tenets
pedagogical dogma

c
: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

2
: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church

So, a doctrine is holding to established opinions. Where is this commanded in the Bible? I think one will find it difficult to even justify divine intent to have doctrines.

 

[charity]

What makes a doctrine false?

Please quote what you would like to respond to. Thanks.

1. You've never heard it before. (knee-jerk defensive response)

2. You have heard of it before, but assume it's false. (haven't looked into it)

3. Doesn't align with your church's doctrine (your church would say it is false)

4. Doesn't align with your personal doctrine (your views differ)

5. YOUR "Bible" says it is false. (other biblical opinions don't matter)

6. It makes you uncomfortable. (therefore it must be wrong)

7. Everyone knows it's false. (except those who believe it)

Surely the Bible is the only means of comparison that we have to judge anything that is doctrinal.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Jim B]

Surely the Bible is the only means of comparison that we have to judge anything that is doctrinal.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Great job not falling for the trap! You are 100% correct, Chris

 

[Jim B]

What makes a spirit false? If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2)

And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma
Mental E/c2 - Mentally, A mathematical formula, but this has chemical and spiritual properties as well.
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. - 1 John 1:5

Unfortunately, though, the light and the darkness interact here on planet Earth...Comparing the light and the darkness, the opposite of E/c2 would be z (absolute zero)/ d (darkness)...

Natural z/d - Nothing, empty space.
Mental z/d - Again nothing but empty space.
Spiritual z/d - z (laziness, coldness, hatred) / d (fear, despair, greed, sorrow)

I have met such a variety of spirits.... All within the same mental doctrine! A good doctrine ought to be accompanied with good spirits.

My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you... - Galatians 4:19

When the Christ is formed there will be a wonderful motivation, warmth, love, faith, hope, charity, and joy. When those spiritual things do not accompany a doctrine I worry about the so-called truthful teachings.

This is just wishful thinking and not in accordance with Scripture. For example, here is what the apostle Paul wrote to the Christians in Galatia: "I wish those who unsettle you would castrate themselves!" Galatians 5:12

 

[amigo de christo]

This is just wishful thinking and not in accordance with Scripture. For example, here is what the apostle Paul wrote to the Christians in Galatia: "I wish those who unsettle you would castrate themselves!" Galatians 5:12

Please it dont mean castrate themselves . LEST YE MEAN they were CUT OFF .
PAUL DIDNT say i wish they would CUT THEMSELVES OFF , HE said i wish they were CUT OFF .
Paul didnt seeker friendly false teachers . NOR SHOULD WE .
Its slick how they did try and intrepet that though . Cause technically castrate IS TO CUT OFF .
BUT paul didnt say I WISH THEY WOULD CUT THEMELVES off ,
Lets look at what paul writes concerning Alexander the coppersmith .
THE LORD REWARD HIM ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS .
BUT DO NOTICE paul had first spoken often to him , BUT HE , HE , HE , HE as in alexander RESISTED THE TRUTH .
Learn that bible jim . not what men try and say , but simply read it FOR YOU

 

[Jim B]

Please it dont mean castrate themselves . LEST YE MEAN they were CUT OFF .
PAUL DIDNT say i wish they would CUT THEMSELVES OFF , HE said i wish they were CUT OFF .
Paul didnt seeker friendly false teachers . NOR SHOULD WE .
Its slick how they did try and intrepet that though . Cause technically castrate IS TO CUT OFF .
BUT paul didnt say I WISH THEY WOULD CUT THEMELVES off ,
Lets look at what paul writes concerning Alexander the coppersmith .
THE LORD REWARD HIM ACCORDING TO HIS WORKS .
BUT DO NOTICE paul had first spoken often to him , BUT HE , HE , HE , HE as in alexander RESISTED THE TRUTH .
Learn that bible jim . not what men try and say , but simply read it FOR YOU

Get out of your King James Bible! It does mean "castrate themselves".

HCSB, "I wish those who are disturbing you might also get themselves castrated!"
NASB, "I wish that those who are troubling you would even emasculate themselves."
NET, "I wish those agitators would go so far as to castrate themselves!"
NIV, "As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!"
NRSVue, "I wish those who unsettle you would castrate themselves!"
... and others (all Galatians 5:12)

The preceding verse makes the context even clearer: "But my brothers and sisters, why am I still being persecuted if I am still preaching circumcision? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed." Galatians 5:11, NRSVue

Learn that bible @amigo . Not what men try to say , but simply read it FOR YOURSELF with an open mind.

 

[amigo de christo]

Get out of your King James Bible! It does mean "castrate themselves".

HCSB, "I wish those who are disturbing you might also get themselves castrated!"
NASB, "I wish that those who are troubling you would even emasculate themselves."
NET, "I wish those agitators would go so far as to castrate themselves!"
NIV, "As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!"
NRSVue, "I wish those who unsettle you would castrate themselves!"
... and others (all Galatians 5:12)

The preceding verse makes the context even clearer: "But my brothers and sisters, why am I still being persecuted if I am still preaching circumcision? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed." Galatians 5:11, NRSVue

Learn that bible @amigo . Not what men try to say , but simply read it FOR YOURSELF with an open mind.

So it means what it says . TO CUT OFF . paul didnt say i wish they would castrate themselves .
What on earth . paul never preached circumcision by hands to the church .
It means exactly what it says . I WISH THEY WERE CUT OFF who are troubling you .
GET them OUTTA OF THE CHURCHES . BE GONE .
Now this dont mean paul hated them . Cause in another letter
he also writes how is WEEPS , WEEPING FOR THEM who are the ENEMIES of Christ .
BUT DO notice he didnt say WHOSE END IS HAPPY DAYS WITH THE LORD CAUSE GOD IS LOVE AND ALL WILL
be well with them . HE SAID WHOSE END IS DESTRUCTION . get that . DESTRUCTION .
But for sure paul , and MYSELF dont hate anyone jim . you do .
Sure i am grave , sure i do correct , sure i am quick to rebuke error and sin withn the church .
BUT that aint Hate jimmy , ITS LOVE . try it some time .
And as far as your other speech . cause yeah jim i do read every single response you give to me .
As for your other speech about how amigo preaches hate
and how you watched this other person you once knew and how no one listened to him .
A , that aint me JIM .
IF you met me in person , YOU WOULD SEE THAT JIM .
BUT yes , YES I DO CORRECT SIN AND ERROR and dont expect an apology from me for doing so either .
BUT if you just spent a day with me jim , you would see i have never EVEN raised my voice in anger
with anyone i have spoke too . BUT , and jim this is one big ol BUTT , BIG OL BUTT too .
sorry for the second T , its meant to make a point .
The so called most lovey generation , the so called most i would not even harm a fly generation .
CANNOT SAY they do the same to me as i do to them . DISAGREE with them
and ITS TOTAL TEETH .
THEY disagree with me and yet i remain calm , kind . THEY DONT DO THE SAME JIMMY DEAN .
YOUR GENERATION , cause yeah its yours , you and seeker friendly OWN IT .
YALL MADE IT , YOU OWN IT . ARE the most nasty vile and hateful folks towards those who actaully LOVE YA
and are just trying to help you and others . I SEEN YOU jim . YOU big on the name callling
you called me satan . course you toned it down a bit . My guess is you got banned
cause i didnt see you for a while .
BUT Guess what JIM . IF you did get banned , I WASNT THE ONE who reported you .
AND you can ask those closest to me . LIKE my sister and my other sister nancy too .
MY mission is simply Speak truth and follow that pattern . AND JIM
Seeker friendly , that pattern AINT WORKED JIM .
OH SURE , SURE You might have churches growing and exploding in number .
Sure you might have many singing praises and saying I LOVE MY JESUS I LOVE MY GOD .
BUT THEY SURE AS HELL aint repenting of evil jim . SORRY for the the hell expression
though it sure aint quite the same as When you said i was of satan .
BUT IT DONT WORK JIM . The social gospel IS FALSE , SEEKER FRIENDLY IS FALSE .
BIBLE TIME JIM . BIBLE TIME .

 

[Triumph1300]

OH SURE , SURE You might have churches growing and exploding in number .

Yup. Political correct churches full of "love", guiding people straight to hell.
Lots of them around.
They do not want to be persecuted.....love sinners straight to the pit.
Jesus loves them all and no word about repentance.
Once saved, always saved....license to sin some more.
And on it goes.
Love= Telling people the truth.

 

[Jim B]

So it means what it says . TO CUT OFF . paul didnt say i wish they would castrate themselves .
What on earth . paul never preached circumcision by hands to the church .
It means exactly what it says . I WISH THEY WERE CUT OFF who are troubling you .
GET them OUTTA OF THE CHURCHES . BE GONE .
Now this dont mean paul hated them . Cause in another letter
he also writes how is WEEPS , WEEPING FOR THEM who are the ENEMIES of Christ .
BUT DO notice he didnt say WHOSE END IS HAPPY DAYS WITH THE LORD CAUSE GOD IS LOVE AND ALL WILL
be well with them . HE SAID WHOSE END IS DESTRUCTION . get that . DESTRUCTION .
But for sure paul , and MYSELF dont hate anyone jim . you do .
Sure i am grave , sure i do correct , sure i am quick to rebuke error and sin withn the church .
BUT that aint Hate jimmy , ITS LOVE . try it some time .
And as far as your other speech . cause yeah jim i do read every single response you give to me .
As for your other speech about how amigo preaches hate
and how you watched this other person you once knew and how no one listened to him .
A , that aint me JIM .
IF you met me in person , YOU WOULD SEE THAT JIM .
BUT yes , YES I DO CORRECT SIN AND ERROR and dont expect an apology from me for doing so either .
BUT if you just spent a day with me jim , you would see i have never EVEN raised my voice in anger
with anyone i have spoke too . BUT , and jim this is one big ol BUTT , BIG OL BUTT too .
sorry for the second T , its meant to make a point .
The so called most lovey generation , the so called most i would not even harm a fly generation .
CANNOT SAY they do the same to me as i do to them . DISAGREE with them
and ITS TOTAL TEETH .
THEY disagree with me and yet i remain calm , kind . THEY DONT DO THE SAME JIMMY DEAN .
YOUR GENERATION , cause yeah its yours , you and seeker friendly OWN IT .
YALL MADE IT , YOU OWN IT . ARE the most nasty vile and hateful folks towards those who actaully LOVE YA
and are just trying to help you and others . I SEEN YOU jim . YOU big on the name callling
you called me satan . course you toned it down a bit . My guess is you got banned
cause i didnt see you for a while .
BUT Guess what JIM . IF you did get banned , I WASNT THE ONE who reported you .
AND you can ask those closest to me . LIKE my sister and my other sister nancy too .
MY mission is simply Speak truth and follow that pattern . AND JIM
Seeker friendly , that pattern AINT WORKED JIM .
OH SURE , SURE You might have churches growing and exploding in number .
Sure you might have many singing praises and saying I LOVE MY JESUS I LOVE MY GOD .
BUT THEY SURE AS HELL aint repenting of evil jim . SORRY for the the hell expression
though it sure aint quite the same as When you said i was of satan .
BUT IT DONT WORK JIM . The social gospel IS FALSE , SEEKER FRIENDLY IS FALSE .
BIBLE TIME JIM . BIBLE TIME .

I believe what qualified translators wrote, not your (mis)interpretation. He said that they should go the whole way (beyond removal of the foreskin) and castrate themselves. That's what it clearly means!

You also wrote this: "i am quick to rebuke error and sin withn the church . BUT that aint Hate jimmy , ITS LOVE" It reminds me of George Orwell's writings.

BTW, since you have never defined "social gospel", I looked it up. The Social Gospel is a social movement within Protestantism that aims to apply Christian ethics to social problems, especially issues of social justice such as economic inequality, poverty, alcoholism, etc. So obviously you don't know what you're referring to.

I won't reply to the rest of your post, as it's the "same old, same old". Your misinformation and thinly-disguised hatred are both wrong and boring.

 

[amigo de christo]

I believe what qualified translators wrote, not your (mis)interpretation. He said that they should go the whole way (beyond removal of the foreskin) and castrate themselves. That's what it clearly means!

You also wrote this: "i am quick to rebuke error and sin withn the church . BUT that aint Hate jimmy , ITS LOVE" It reminds me of George Orwell's writings.

BTW, since you have never defined "social gospel", I looked it up. The Social Gospel is a social movement within Protestantism that aims to apply Christian ethics to social problems, especially issues of social justice such as economic inequality, poverty, alcoholism, etc. So obviously you don't know what you're referring to.

I won't reply to the rest of your post, as it's the "same old, same old". Your misinformation and thinly-disguised hatred are both wrong and boring.

JIM stop trying to fool folks . You knew darn well what things mean .
You try and behave like you dont even know who pope franics is .
JIM , i refuse to insult your intelligence . YOU KNOW full well
what progressive christianity is . You aint dumb . YOU educated . YOU KNOW JIM .
stop trying to play a fool . YOU KNOW and you know I KNOW .
Lets both keep it real . I aint afraid to come out and say what i beleive .
YOU forget i watch You jim . i watch and read a lot , a lot of what most folks teach n say .
THEN I watch them contradict themselves non stop in other places .
I watch jim . And i know you thinks me on the level of a first , maybe second grade ,
BUT JIM i would be a liar if i at least didnt let you know something .
MY MEMORY . IT REMEMBERS my friend . Believe me i dont want to sound like i am boasting
cause I KNOW GOD can take away anything . THE ONLY reason i brought that up
was to help you understand . I REMEMBER THINGS JIM . always have .
i told you folks used to marvel at some things about me jim . MEMORY WAS ONE OF THEM .
I WATCH YOU JIM . YOU are not being honest at all about SOME THINGS .
PS , i will pray for you jim . I know how some folks work and by GRACE i wont be falling for it .