What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Jane_Doe22]

So her personal testimony of her many visits to at least two different temples and the description of those ceremonies, regardless of what they actually mean, was a lie? That her description of the manner and means for preparation for the taking of oaths etc was not accurate? How can she already physical description of something she experienced? She isn't offering any context or explaining the meaning of the ceremony...I realise that... But is her actual description of the experience accurate? Of not, what is different?

Stripping the context and meaning of anything religious involving religion makes the description useless.

 

[4Jesus]

Lets just call it the spirit of the intent --- which is transparent and apparent. Again...discussion or interrogation?

Na, let's not just call it that.

It's an interrogation to get her meaning? Since she's removing words from what I'm saying that shows she's contradicting herself, the involvement here is necessary to figure out what she's trying to say, without distortion...

And to your charge that I'm harassing her, that's a false accusation on your part. If she hadn't replied, and I kept up, that's harassment. She's been corresponding to each post, and I likewise. So if I'm harassing her, she's also harassing me, yet you don't speak out against that...why? Bit one-sided I think...

 

[brakelite]

Please quit trying to "inform" me what I think and believe. It is beyond disrespectful.

And yet you are trying to convince us to believe your disparaging remarks regarding Wilder, by saying she is skewing context... Revenge driven... Spiteful... Sounds to me like you are taking it very personally... Especially when you confronted prayer warrior regarding your being offended that she questioned your Christianity.. Which she did not do. And she did not start this thread to attack you. She is quoting a book which you find offensive. And you have not explained why or how Wilders description of events differs from your own experience.

 

[Grailhunter]

Na, let's not just call it that.

It's an interrogation to get her meaning? Since she's removing words from what I'm saying that shows she's contradicting herself, the involvement here is necessary to figure out what she's trying to say, without distortion...

I don't think she is distorting anything.

 

[4Jesus]

I don't think she is distorting anything.

Here we go. I just showed that she removed words from the quote she used when she posted a reply to me, words that showed she was contradicting herself just a few posts before. That's a distortion...

And you don't think she's harassing me, yet imply I'm harassing her, with the same replies to each other, either, so what do you know...

And we had hit a dead-end when you just brought it back, so um, thanks?

 

[Grailhunter]

And yet you are trying to convince us to believe your disparaging remarks regarding Wilder, by saying she is skewing context... Revenge driven... Spiteful... Sounds to me like you are taking it very personally... Especially when you confronted prayer warrior regarding your being offended that she questioned your Christianity.. Which she did not do. And she did not start this thread to attack you. She is quoting a book which you find offensive. And you have not explained why or how Wilders description of events differs from your own experience.

Why ask her about someone else's experience? You know you are not going to like the answer anyway.

 

[brakelite]

Stripping the context and meaning of anything religious involving religion makes the description useless.

Okay, so what does your church teach is the meaning and purpose of those ceremonies, apart from what Wider herself said was an affirmation of commitment to membership of the church?

 

[Grailhunter]

Here we go. I just showed that she removed words from the quote she used when she posted a reply to me, words that showed she was contradicting herself just a few posts before. That's a distortion...

And you don't think she's harassing me, yet imply I'm harassing her, with the same replies to each other, either, so what do you know...

Is she questioning you about your religion? Questioning the validity of your religion? What is the intent?

 

[4Jesus]

Is she questioning you about your religion? Questioning the validity of your religion? What is the intent?

To understand her point of view, is that ok with you? Since you're the one to go to, to settle matters, is that ok or not?

Or am I now harassing you?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

And yet you are trying to convince us to believe your disparaging remarks regarding Wilder, by saying she is skewing context... Revenge driven... Spiteful... Sounds to me like you are taking it very personally... Especially when you confronted prayer warrior regarding your being offended that she questioned your Christianity..

brakelite, I'm OCD truthful. I just put good information out there and try to clarify things. Simple as that. I don't know how many times I've explained that. And yet you keep trying to "inform" me of my motivations. It is EXTREMELY disrespectful.

 

[Grailhunter]

To understand her point of view, is that ok with you? Since you're the one to go to, to settle matters, is that ok or not?

Or am I now harassing you?

Discussions are great, why else are we here, keep in mind that you are talking to a lady.

 

[4Jesus]

Discussions are great, why else are we here, keep in mind that you talking to a lady.

Excuse you, I didn't put her down nor even attempt to insult, nor yell and get angry.

So what did I say or imply that was bad to talk to a lady with?

Now you, you're false accusing me left and right. Nothing about that huh?

And now you're commenting on my integrity. Now you and I have a problem.

 

[Grailhunter]

Excuse you, I didn't put her down nor even attempt to insult, nor yell and get angry.

So what did I say or imply that was bad to talk to a lady with?

Now you, you're false accusing me left and right. Nothing about that huh?

And now you're commenting on my integrity. Now you and I have a problem.

Do you think she has has not taken offense to what you have said and way you have said it...said?
You are discussing her beliefs....you do not want it to look like you have not learnt anything from your religion.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Excuse you, I didn't put her down nor even attempt to insult, nor yell and get angry.

So what did I say or imply that was bad to talk to a lady with?

Now you, you're false accusing me left and right. Nothing about that huh?

And now you're commenting on my integrity. Now you and I have a problem.

Do you think she has has not taken offense to what you have said and way you have said it...said?
You are discussing her beliefs....you do not want it to look like you have not learnt anything from your religion.

Deep breaths you two

 

[4Jesus]

Do you think she has has not taken offense to what you have said and way you have said it...said?
You are discussing her beliefs....you do not want it to look like you have not learnt anything from your religion.

Yes, I do believe she has not taken offense by what I've said, because we were discussing words and their meanings. Neither of us put each other down or called each other names. We were talking logically and reasonably. There was nothing to take offense about, on either side.

We did not discuss her religious beliefs at all tonight. Perhaps you should go back and read tonight's conversation before you comment again.

"you do not want it to look like you have not learnt anything from your religion." Here you go, being insulting again. False accusations, integrity questioning, and now this. I don't want it to look like I have not learnt anything from my religion? After you just falsely accused me and questioned my integrity? You've got some nerve there.

Perhaps you should reexamine what you thought you knew...

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, I do believe she has not taken offense by what I've said, because we were discussing words and their meanings. Neither of us put each other down or called each other names. We were talking logically and reasonably. There was nothing to take offense about, on either side.

We did not discuss her religious beliefs at all tonight. Perhaps you should go back and read tonight's conversation before you comment again.

"you do not want it to look like you have not learnt anything from your religion." Here you go, being insulting again. False accusations, integrity questioning, and now this. I don't want it to look like I have not learnt anything from my religion? After you just falsely accused me and questioned my integrity? You've got some nerve there.

Perhaps you should reexamine what you thought you knew...

Tell ya what....lets just see how this goes.....the proof is in the pudding.

 

[4Jesus]

Tell ya what....lets just see how this goes.....the proof is in the pudding.

Na, don't tell me what; I've already seen how it goes by your statements (harassment, talking offensively, to a lady) - you're not the authority you think you are here.

And no apology still for the false accusations and integrity questioning, and questioning my belief (what you're claiming I'm doing to her, which I wasn't - in fact, if you ask her, I'm the one who said I'd investigate her religion objectively and get back to her on my conclusion (which still isn't complete), so maybe check first before you comment). That speaks for itself, from you, so I already know how this is going...your proof, the pudding, is already proven - it's nonexistent.

 

[Waiting on him]

@Jane_Doe22, the alleged tablets your founder was given, do you believe they truly existed/exist?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Jane_Doe22, the alleged tablets your founder was given, do you believe they truly existed/exist?

Yes, however the entire story / meaning / context is different than what I think you've heard.

 

[Grailhunter]

Yes, I do believe she has not taken offense by what I've said, because we were discussing words and their meanings. Neither of us put each other down or called each other names. We were talking logically and reasonably. There was nothing to take offense about, on either side.

We did not discuss her religious beliefs at all tonight. Perhaps you should go back and read tonight's conversation before you comment again.

"you do not want it to look like you have not learnt anything from your religion." Here you go, being insulting again. False accusations, integrity questioning, and now this. I don't want it to look like I have not learnt anything from my religion? After you just falsely accused me and questioned my integrity? You've got some nerve there.

Perhaps you should reexamine what you thought you knew...

You are thinking that it is not obvious that your underlying intent is negative and rude. I am saying, have a blast....discuss.....manners.