What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Willie T]

I do have one regret. I am Vineyard, but I cannot attend a Vineyard church at this time because it is about a three hour round-trip to any Vineyard except the one we quit about a year ago because they went 100% "Rainbow" and "no hell." (They were only about ten minutes away.) Vineyards are totally autonomous on what each local church teaches.

I wonder if some of that might be happening in other kinds of churches people have left...… and tell bad things about.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Did you block me, LOL? I openly stated my agenda up above.

The OP?

In that case, your intention is to shout what you think I believe, without bothering to fact check and actually ask me..

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I do have one regret. I am Vineyard, but I cannot attend a Vineyard church at this time because it is about a three hour round-trip to any Vineyard except the one we quit about a year ago because they went 100% "Rainbow" and "no hell." (They were only about ten minutes away.) Vineyards are totally autonomous on what each local church teaches.

I wonder if some of that might be happening in other kinds of churches people have left...… and tell bad things about.

I'm sorry to hear that about your Vineyard! Three hours is a bit much of a commute!

I understand what you're saying about telling bad things..., but what Lynn Wilder does in her book is simply explain what she was taught as a Mormon; then, she compares their doctrine with what she learned when she started seriously reading the New Testament. As I read her book, I didn't get the feeling that she has a personal vendetta at all.
.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The OP?

In that cases, you intention is to shout what you think I believe, without bothering to fact check.

Really, JD, this is not about YOU. I would have posted what Lynn Wilder has to share in her book whether you were posting in this forum or not.

 

[Willie T]

I'm sorry to hear that about your Vineyard! Three hours is a bit much of a commute!

I understand what you're saying about telling bad things..., but what Lynn Wilder does in her book is simply explain what she was taught as a Mormon; then, she compares their doctrine with what she learned from reading the New Testament. As I read her book, I didn't get the feeling that she has a personal vendetta at all.

Well, one might make that same defense for you, the way you speak of Vineyard Fellowships. But, having been there for five or six years, I know you cannot judge one Vineyard by another. I tend to believe, because we are all human, that could be the case with any denomination.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Really, JD, this is not about YOU. I would have posted what Lynn Wilder has to share in her book whether you were posting in this forum or not.

Except her book doesn't remotely fact check. It's an agenda-driven-axe-grinder.

Much as if I were to grab some ex-Christian-now-Muslim axe-grinding and post it here as my "proof" of what Christians really believe.

I could do that, just it doesn't really make any of it fact check.
Likewise you can post that junk, but it doesn't make any of it fact check.

 

[Grailhunter]

LOL, it doesn't matter if you condemn me. My conscience doesn't condemn me.

I'm nondenominational at this point in my Christian walk, but over the last 40 something years, I've attended these denominations/churches:

Presbyterian, Baptist (Southern and Free Will--go figure), Calvary Chapel, Vinyard (Go figure again, LOL), Assemblies of God, community churches, Bible churches, etc. I don't even remember them all. (I'm no spring chicken. )

I've also used various translations of the Bible--Revised Standard, New American Standard, KJV, ESV, HCSB, NIV, Amplified Bible, etc. I use paraphrases very sparingly and completely avoid The Message (not to offend anyone) because Peterson replaced the portion of the Lord's prayer "on earth as it is in heaven" with a common occult phrase, "as above, so below."

Hope this answers your question. I realize that this is more info than you asked for.

That is fine, all good. My issue is with the spirit of Condemnation. Is that the spirit of Christianity that you came away with after all that time in Christianity. Do you not understand that is sad? Do not take this as condemnation either. Discussion is good...why do you believe, is a better approach when talking with someone of another denomination. Putting someone on the defensive is not the way to get information or understanding. Even at that, and they do explain what they believe and why, you or I many not agree with all they believe but that does not mean we cannot love them. Luke 9:49-50 John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us.” But Jesus said to him, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you.”

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Well, one might make that same defense for you, the way you speak of Vineyard Fellowships. But, having been there for five or six years, I know you cannot judge one Vineyard by another. I tend to believe, because we are all human, that could be the case with any denomination.

I'm curious if you read the excerpts I posted from the book. If you did, then you can see that Mormon doctrine is outside the parameters of basic Christian doctrine (Protestant in particular) taken from the Bible. So, obviously, I don't consider the Mormon religion to be just another Christian denomination.

 

[Willie T]

PW, are you saying that The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints deliberately lies by deception and omission, about what they believe? How is it then, that I have always known about Joseph Smith and the plates, and the American Indians, and baptizing for the dead, and Kolob and eternal marriage, etc. Those "Elders" who came to our door 60 years ago were always very open about all those things.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

That is fine, all good. My issue is with the spirit of Condemnation. Is that the spirit of Christianity that you came away with after all that time in Christianity. Do you not understand that is sad? Do not take this as condemnation either. Discussion is good...why do you believe, is a better approach when talking with someone of another denomination. Putting someone on the defensive is not the way to get information or understanding. Even at that, and they do explain what they believe and why, you or I many not agree with all they believe but that does not mean we cannot love them. Luke 9:49-50 John answered and said, “Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name; and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow along with us.” But Jesus said to him, “Do not hinder him; for he who is not against you is for you.”

Yeah, but Jesus also said in Matthew 7:22, "On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’"

So this is the point--knowing Jesus. We know Him through His words. So, tell me whose words are more important, Jesus Christ's or Joseph Smith's? This is part of what Mormons testify to: "I know the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on the face of the earth." There are glaring differences between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and Mormons are taught to place more weight on the Book of Mormon than the Bible.

 

[Nancy]

Hey, @Nancy

Long time no "see." Glad to see you're still posting. I had to take a break. Too much going on in life for a while. Hopefully, things are more settled for a little while.

Been playing a lot of guitar these days. How about you?

Hi Prayer Warrior!
Oh wow...I have not picked up my guitar in quite awhile but do plan on downloading some chords to my favorite worship songs. Yes, life can bog us down sometimes and, I know I have not posted allot lately but, I do get on here and lurk for a bit, lol. I have prayed that The Holy Spirit would zip my lips unless I am certain of what I post. But, I am reading allot of the posts out there. Glad you are posting and playing your guitar!
Gods Love!
nancy

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Hi Prayer Warrior!
Oh wow...I have not picked up my guitar in quite awhile but do plan on downloading some chords to my favorite worship songs. Yes, life can bog us down sometimes and, I know I have not posted allot lately but, I do get on here and lurk for a bit, lol. I have prayed that The Holy Spirit would zip my lips unless I am certain of what I post. But, I am reading allot of the posts out there. Glad you are posting and playing your guitar!
Gods Love!
nancy

I love your prayer! I pray this with just about every post. Not always, but just about every one.

 

[Nancy]

Yeah, but Jesus also said in Matthew 7:22, "On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’"

So this is the point--knowing Jesus. We know Him through His words. So, tell me whose words are more important, Jesus Christ's or Joseph Smith's? This is part of what Mormons testify to: "I know the Book of Mormon is the most correct book on the face of the earth." There are glaring differences between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and Mormons are taught to place more weight on the Book of Mormon than the Bible.

Many on here do not agree with sola scriptura but, this is always going to be my go to, always. We need order and the Word provides it. Looking at all these other beliefs can make us very confused and led down the wrong path. I will not judge other faiths...I'll leave that to God as, I'm not versed well in their doctrines. But, if "any other Gospel is preached outside of God's breathed Word...I will quickly dismiss it but...not the person.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

PW, are you saying that The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints deliberately lies by deception and omission, about what they believe? How is it then, that I have always known about Joseph Smith and the plates, and the American Indians, and baptizing for the dead, and Kolob and eternal marriage, etc. Those "Elders" who came to our door 60 years ago were always very open about all those things.

Not all Mormons know all of LDS beliefs. For instance, not all Mormons are privy to temple rituals.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Many on here do not agree with sola scriptura but, this is always going to be my go to, always. We need order and the Word provides it. Looking at all these other beliefs can make us very confused and led down the wrong path. I will not judge other faiths...I'll leave that to God as, I'm not versed well in their doctrines. But, if "any other Gospel is preached outside of God's breathed Word...I will quickly dismiss it but...not the person.

Agree! I have spent many hours researching other belief systems over the years, but I always compare these beliefs and doctrines with the Bible--no other book.

 

[Nancy]

I love your prayer! I pray this with just about every post. Not always, but just about every one.

He does shut me up allot, lol. I'm very glad of that! Better to keep quiet if there is any question left unanswered. I'm a simple gal and trust Him explicitly with The Word and what He chooses to reveal to me. He just rocks

 

[Nancy]

Agree! I have spent many hours researching other belief systems over the years, but I always compare these beliefs and doctrines with the Bible--no other book.

Amen...keeps it simple and, cannot go wrong if our hearts are open to His guidance, yes? Well, a whole lot simpler than throwing other "mens" words into the mix, that's for sure!

 

[Willie T]

I'm curious if you read the excerpts I posted from the book. If you did, then you can see that Mormon doctrine is outside the parameters of basic Christian doctrine (Protestant in particular) taken from the Bible. So, obviously, I don't consider the Mormon religion to be just another Christian denomination.

Even though I don't believe the same way LDS people do, I can clearly see many things they speak of as coming directly from Scripture. And that is a simple fact you can check out for yourself. It may not be how you or I read it, but it is still taken right from the pages of the Bible. (Not the Joe Smith, plates, and Moroni stuff, of course, but a whole lot of their beliefs.)

 

[Prayer Warrior]

He does shut me up allot, lol. I'm very glad of that! Better to keep quiet if there is any question left unanswered. I'm a simple gal and trust Him explicitly with The Word and what He chooses to reveal to me. He just rocks

You have a way of putting things, Nancy! He does shut us up sometimes!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Even though I don't believe the same way LDS people do, I can clearly see many things they speak of as coming directly from Scripture. And that is a simple fact you can check out for yourself. It may not be how you or I read it, but it is still taken right from the pages of the Bible. (Not the Joe Smith, plates, and Moroni stuff, of course, but a whole lot of their beliefs.)

Do you think that perhaps Joseph Smith had access to a Bible??