What Mormons Believe--according to a Former BYU Professor

[Jane_Doe22]

It wouldn't be so bad if the books they believed were scripture agreed with the Bible. But official LDS teaching is that not only there is other scripture other than the Bible, but they make the point as quoted earlier from LDS sources, that later revelations can and do supercede previous revelations. So truth not only grows, but can change as well. Now I can accept a growing understanding of truth that reveals a different perspective, for example on the Godhead, but I think we need to be wary of so called revelation that flat out denies and contradicts previous revelation.

Personally, I have no problem with us learning more and more over time, and see the same pattern within the pages of the Bible.

As for your often made declaration that quotes from official LDS sources are inaccurate... Your personal faith as stated by your own lips appear to be in harmony with the majority of Christians in the person of Christ. Yet you then say official LDS sources which describe Christ differently to yourself, are inaccurate. Please describe in detail how it is inaccurate that God the father was once a man.

There isn't a LDS Christian canonized statement saying anything about the Father's history. There are a whole 2 original speculative statements on the matter, which are not canonized nor actively discussed in LDS Church services. You'll find LDS Christians with a wide variety of views on them, all sitting in the same pew.

Zero of those views are what a Creedal Christian would think.

To discuss any of these speculations requires a LOT of background theological discussion, including how three persons are one God, what makes a person actually a sinner, the extreme power of God, etc. There's a lot of Creedal traditions that are different than LDS Christian understanding here. Through experience I've found that 99% of folks aren't interested in this in-depth discussion.

Please describe in detail how it is inaccurate that Christ and Satan are brothers.

The Father is the Father of everyone.
That is a statement pretty much everyone believes (LDS and non). Nothing special about Christ and Lucifer/Satan specifically.

Please describe in detail how it is inaccurate that humans were previous spiritual entities in another existence.

I have a newborn nephew. He was born ~9 days ago.
His body was obviously created in the previous 9 months, in my sister's womb.
How old is his spirit? Christians will vary on their reply to this. As for myself and other LDS Christians, Jeremiah 1:5 is believed literally and it is believe that his spirit is much older than 9 months and God knew him before his body was formed in the womb.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Therein lies the problem. When I started my Book I setup a set of preconditions. I did not care what the truth was, just looking for the truth. The truth still takes you to God. But there is a transition from having faith in the Bible and faith in the truth. As you can see here on this forum, people will always argue the Bible. The truth stands up for itself. How do we know what day Christ was crucified on, because we know it was the day before Passover and Passover is calculated by lunar cycles....and we can accurately calculated lunar cycles. So it all lead to God....and now it days my buddies at Caltech and JPL will tell you they are running out of theories.....and things are looking very organized.

My faith is NOT in the Bible. It is in the Lord Jesus Christ, who created the universe. If He can do that, then He can write a Book and make sure that it's translated correctly.

Your problem is that your God is too small! Where's your big bubble now??

 

[brakelite]

You would have Jesus say ing a cruel thing to the thief if you change where the comma is.

Not at all. Let me paraphrase it to an idiom we would all understand... And trust that Jesus spoke in an idiom the their understood.
Bro, I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

That's not the same question! Because your view on the mechanisms of the Trinity radically change who God is.

So does it matter *how* a person believes God is one? You just stated that it doesn't matter how, as long as it is believed.

Please explain why this yes or no question is just as complex as the interworkings of the Godhead.

It is more complex actually, as this is the first of many discussions before we can even address those speculations. As I've said previously, I find that most people aren't interested in the level of complex discussion.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

So again, please answer the question.

Agreed...

 

[amadeus]

Becoming Like God

“Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly.”

Can man really become a god?

I've decided to put my previous question on the backburner for now... we weren't really making any headway with it.

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

 

[amadeus]

There you go again, GH, sounding like we cannot know the truth about God even though He has made Himself known through the Bible.

Many people who have read the Bible do not know God. The drawing of the Father is a necessity. The leading by the Holy Spirit is a necessity.

 

[Enoch111]

"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is." I John 3:2

This verse is definitely not about the children of God become *little gods* who will then evolve into greater gods.

"We shall be like Him" corresponds to being "conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29,30). The Bible is perfectly clear that those who have been justified by grace through faith will be ultimately perfected and glorified. In this manner we will resemble Christ and be sinlessly perfect with immortal glorified bodies.

But at the same time we will remain servants of God and Christ, not little gods (or as the Orthodox believe, experiencing *theosis*).

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His servants shall serve Him: (Rev 22:3)

The Orthodox Church seems to also believe that Christians will become *little gods* (which is false doctrine).

Theosis ("deification," "divinization") is the process of a worshiper becoming free of hamartía ("missing the mark"), being united with God, beginning in this life and later consummated in bodily resurrection. For Orthodox Christians, Théōsis (see 2 Pet. 1:4) is salvation... The statement by St. Athanasius of Alexandria, "The Son of God became man, that we might become god", [the second g is always lowercase since man can never become a God] indicates the concept beautifully. II Peter 1:4 says that we have become " . . . partakers of divine nature." Athanasius amplifies the meaning of this verse when he says theosis is "becoming by grace what God is by nature" (De Incarnatione, I).
Theosis - OrthodoxWiki

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Many people who have read the Bible do not know God. The drawing of the Father is a necessity. The leading by the Holy Spirit is a necessity.

I agree, and I've said as much many times. It is the Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth (John 16:13). This doesn't contradict the truth that God has made Himself known through the Bible.

 

[amadeus]

This verse is definitely not about the children of God become *little gods* who will then evolve into greater gods.

"We shall be like Him" corresponds to being "conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29,30). The Bible is perfectly clear that those who have been justified by grace through faith will be ultimately perfected and glorified. In this manner we will resemble Christ and be sinlessly perfect with immortal glorified bodies.

But at the same time we will remain servants of God and Christ, not little gods (or as the Orthodox believe, experiencing *theosis*).

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His servants shall serve Him: (Rev 22:3)

The Orthodox Church seems to also believe that Christians will become *little gods* (which is false doctrine).

Theosis ("deification," "divinization") is the process of a worshiper becoming free of hamartía ("missing the mark"), being united with God, beginning in this life and later consummated in bodily resurrection. For Orthodox Christians, Théōsis (see 2 Pet. 1:4) is salvation... The statement by St. Athanasius of Alexandria, "The Son of God became man, that we might become god", [the second g is always lowercase since man can never become a God] indicates the concept beautifully. II Peter 1:4 says that we have become " . . . partakers of divine nature." Athanasius amplifies the meaning of this verse when he says theosis is "becoming by grace what God is by nature" (De Incarnatione, I).
Theosis - OrthodoxWiki

I only posted a verse. Do you suppose that to be saved a person must be able to put together all of these detailed explanations using various sources to arrive at the correct meaning or will God lead a person to what is needed according to Him?

Has any Protestant or Catholic ever understood wrongly what they have read in the Bible or been led astray by what some well educated theologian has taught them? Do you really believe that the average Mormon is so very different? Are we all not frail, fallible and corruptible people? You presume that your understanding of the verse I posted establishes truth, but without the Holy Spirit how can anyone understand the Truth, God' Truth?

 

[amadeus]

I agree, and I've said as much many times. It is the Holy Spirit who guides us into all truth (John 16:13). This doesn't contradict the truth that God has made Himself known through the Bible.

Yes, He has made Himself known to those who truly hungry and thirsty for the right things:

"Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled." Matt 5:6

 

[Jane_Doe22]

This verse is definitely not about the children of God become *little gods* who will then evolve into greater gods.

"We shall be like Him" corresponds to being "conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29,30). The Bible is perfectly clear that those who have been justified by grace through faith will be ultimately perfected and glorified. In this manner we will resemble Christ and be sinlessly perfect with immortal glorified bodies.

But at the same time we will remain servants of God and Christ, not little gods (or as the Orthodox believe, experiencing *theosis*).

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His servants shall serve Him: (Rev 22:3)

LDS Christians likewise believe that we will always serve our Father and He will always be our Father, even when we are joint-heirs with Christ.

 

[Enoch111]

I only posted a verse.

And I simply clarified it in view of Mormonism (not that you were suggesting anything incorrect). What makes you think that that explanation is "without the Holy Spirit"?

 

[amadeus]

And I simply clarified it in view of Mormonism (not that you were suggesting anything incorrect). What makes you think that that explanation is "without the Holy Spirit"?

I did not say that it was not.

I was simply speaking to the point, that many people cannot lay out an explanation like that. This does not automatically make you right and them wrong. Jesus simply said , '' much is given...much is required". What we do with what we are given is therefore very important. God is searching the hearts for a right attitude and to the works worked using all that He has provided each of us, without regard to the doctrine followed or the organized group, if any, to which a person holds.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I did not say that it was not.

I was simply speaking to the point, that many people cannot lay out an explanation like that. This does not automatically make you right and them wrong. Jesus simply said , '' much is given...much is required". What we do with what we are given is therefore very important. God is searching the hearts for a right attitude and to the works worked using all that He has provided each of us, without regard to the doctrine followed or the organized group, if any, to which a person holds.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you're saying that it doesn't matter what we believe as long as we have the right attitude.

 

[Giuliano]

Not at all. Let me paraphrase it to an idiom we would all understand... And trust that Jesus spoke in an idiom the their understood.
Bro, I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise.

No need for the "today" in that case. Obviously he wasn't speaking to him "yesterday."

 

[Grailhunter]

My faith is NOT in the Bible. It is in the Lord Jesus Christ, who created the universe. If He can do that, then He can write a Book and make sure that it's translated correctly.

Your problem is that your God is too small! Where's your big bubble now??

My faith is NOT in the Bible. It is in the Lord Jesus Christ, who created the universe. If He can do that, then He can write a Book and make sure that it's translated correctly.
lol Which Bible? All of them correct at once? I do not have to tell you that the Jehovah Witnesses carry Bibles that indicate that Christ is not a God. But it is good to have faith lol Hey será, será Whatever will be, will be..The future's not ours to see...Hey será, será That is all part of it. I want to know the Word of God....you are loyal to a book.

 

[Grailhunter]

This verse is definitely not about the children of God become *little gods* who will then evolve into greater gods.

"We shall be like Him" corresponds to being "conformed to the image of His Son" (Rom 8:29,30). The Bible is perfectly clear that those who have been justified by grace through faith will be ultimately perfected and glorified. In this manner we will resemble Christ and be sinlessly perfect with immortal glorified bodies.

But at the same time we will remain servants of God and Christ, not little gods (or as the Orthodox believe, experiencing *theosis*).

And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and His servants shall serve Him: (Rev 22:3)

The Orthodox Church seems to also believe that Christians will become *little gods* (which is false doctrine).

Theosis ("deification," "divinization") is the process of a worshiper becoming free of hamartía ("missing the mark"), being united with God, beginning in this life and later consummated in bodily resurrection. For Orthodox Christians, Théōsis (see 2 Pet. 1:4) is salvation... The statement by St. Athanasius of Alexandria, "The Son of God became man, that we might become god", [the second g is always lowercase since man can never become a God] indicates the concept beautifully. II Peter 1:4 says that we have become " . . . partakers of divine nature." Athanasius amplifies the meaning of this verse when he says theosis is "becoming by grace what God is by nature" (De Incarnatione, I).
Theosis - OrthodoxWiki

Psalms
I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’?

So what is Paul speaking about when he speaks about adoption….three legged step children?

 

[Giuliano]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but it sounds like you're saying that it doesn't matter what we believe as long as we have the right attitude.

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

1 Corinthians 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Matthew 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I fail to see how these verses apply.