What Need I of Grace?

[HARK!]

We are not under the Law of works anymore, but the Law of Faith.

"Under the law of works," there is a combination of words I haven't seen before.

(CLV) Gn 15:6
Now Abram believed on Elohim, and He reckoned it to him for righteousness

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

(CLV) Ja 2:22
You are observing that faith worked together with his works, and by works was faith perfected.

(CLV) Ja 2:23
And fulfilled was the scripture which is saying, Now "Abraham believes God, and it is reckoned to him for righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

 

[HARK!]

Crimes are still crimes, and all actions are considered to be sin and are abhorrent to God, if they are not derived from love.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,


(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

From Decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

 

[HARK!]

If you break one law, you've broken them all. This is not case under the Law of Faith. Eating unclean food in the past, has no bearing on us now.

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

 

[Angelina]

Ohh.. now that is an interesting way to look at things @HARK! The law has been taken from the tablets of stone and transferred into our hearts through Christ Jesus. It is the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus who has set us free from the law of Sin and death. Romans 8:1-11

When asked what the greatest commandments were, Jesus replied "37 He said to him, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and most important command. 39 The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. 40 All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands." Matt 22:37-40

Also note: The the penalty of sin is death and death still reigned from Adam to Moses until the Law was given. Romans 5: 12-17 To clarify, although the law did not exist from Adam up until Moses, people still died and death is the penalty of sin....otherwise they would have still be living like they were Eden.....

Indeed it is. If the law was abolished, as some claim; why are they stressing the importance of grace?



Paul covers at least 8 different categories of law in his letter to the Romans (Leave it to a lawyer.)

The Law of Faith (Ch 3)
A Different Law (Ch 7)
The Law of My Mind (Ch 7)
The Law of Sin (Sin's Law) (Ch 7)
God's Law (Ch 7)
The Spirit's Law of Life (Ch 8)
The Law of Sin and Death (Ch 8)
The Law of Righteousness (Ch 9

Paul did not say that Yahshua set us free from YHWH's law.

That would contradict Yahshua plain simple language:

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

Paul did however say this, very early on in that letter:

(CLV) Ro 3:31
Are we, then, nullifying law through faith? May it not be coming to that! Nay, we are sustaining law.








How do we know if we love YHWH?

This is what YHWH said:

From the Decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

This is what his son said:

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

This is what one of his son's disciples said:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,








The law was clearly known before it was written down for Moses; but that might be a topic for another thread.

I'll give one example here, which should be sufficient. Even the Heathen Abimelech knew that adultery was wrong.

I think that we may be agreeing on the same things but the way in which it operates may differ. The idea that the law was abolished is found in Hebrews 8:13 which I am sure, you have already read. It was because a new covenant was being and has been made through Christ's blood.

 

[Angelina]

Grace through faith is still needed for salvation and our sanctifying walk with Jesus under the second covenant as new believer's cannot apply such grace as an automatic thing without receiving him as their Lord and Savior because he died and rose again as a ransom for sin for all who believe in him by faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not according to Yahshua.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

The law will always stand as that which defines sin for us.

However, for the believer, it no longer has the ability to condemn us from the outside, as being written on tablets of stone. instead, it governs us from the inside as being written on fleshy tablets of human hearts.

 

[justbyfaith]

The idea that the law was abolished is found in Hebrews 8:13

Actually, the context doesn't bear that out (see Hebrews 8:8-10).

I do believe that the law is "abolished" in that it no longer condemns the believer in Christ (from the outside).

However, the passage in question bears out that believers are governed by the law from the inside.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Well, you answered the question yourself, grace is God's removing of the Law. God was not obligated to do so, but due to it's prevalence in condemning all men, God offered another option. If He could find just one man to fulfill the Law, He would abrogate it.
Thus, by Christ's love and obedience unto death (final sacrifice), God was able to offer grace to all men by revoking the Law, and establishing Faith in Christ's redemptive work, as the means to salvation.
Faith over works, is God's grace.

Why did Paul say in Romans 3:31

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

How do we establish the law? By being wicked? What does it mean to you to have faith in Christ?

If you read the whole 8-chapter teaching on the LAW, you will find God replaced the Mosaic law with another law. What is it?

 

[Angelina]

I am only pointing out JbF where such an idea may come from, nothing else bro....

 

[DNB]

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is no longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

Why in the world are you using such an awkward Biblical translation, as The Concordant Literal Version?
Just asking?

 

[HARK!]

I think that we may be agreeing on the same things but the way in which it operates may differ. The idea that the law was abolished is found in Hebrews 8:13 which I am sure, you have already read. It was because a new covenant was being and has been made through Christ's blood.

This verse speaks of a new covenant; not of abolished laws. If it did it would contradict Yahshua. In fact, just a few verses back, in verse 10, the author quotes Jeremiah, in saying that YHWH will write his law on our hearts.

I suspect that when it's written on one's heart; he can't be so stiff necked as to walk on by, that which is written in stone.

 

[friend of]

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

He fulfilled the Law. We stand justified by Faith in Him. It no longer applies to us. How are you not getting the simplicity of the Gospel message?

 

[HARK!]

Grace through faith is still needed for salvation and our sanctifying walk with Jesus under the second covenant as new believer's cannot apply such grace as an automatic thing without receiving him as their Lord and Savior because he died and rose again as a ransom for sin for all who believe in him by faith.

Is it grace through faith, or faith through grace?

I believe that we should always remember that it is YHWH who saves us.

 

[HARK!]

He fulfilled the Law. We stand justified by Faith in Him. It no longer applies to us. How are you not getting the simplicity of the Gospel message?

...and now it is to be fulfilled in us:

(CLV) Ro 8:3
For what was impossible to the law, in which it was infirm through the flesh, did God, -sending His own Son in the likeness of sin's flesh and concerning sin, He condemns sin in the flesh,

(CLV) Ro 8:4
that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit.

(CLV) 1Co 11:1
Become imitators of me, according as I also am of Christ.

 

[HARK!]

Why in the world are you using such an awkward Biblical translation, as The Concordant Literal Version?
Just asking?

1.) It's a literal translation. If there is any question about the translation; I can quickly look at the original language myself.
2.) It somewhat conforms to the CT.
3.) It comes with great tools for free at scripture4all.com. I can quickly look at the Hebrew, the Greek, and get the Strong number.

 

[Angelina]

This verse speaks of a new covenant; not of abolished laws. If it did it would contradict Yahshua. In fact, just a few verses back, in verse 10, the author quotes Jeremiah, in saying that YHWH will write his law on our hearts.

I suspect that when it's written on one's heart; he can't be so stiff necked as to walk on by, that which is written in stone.

Indeed this is true but you have pointed out why some Christians believe that the law of Moses does not apply to us today. The old covenant is also known as the Law of Moses. So if a covenant is new, the old covenant is passing away...

 

[Angelina]

Is it grace through faith, or faith through grace?

I believe that we should always remember that it is YHWH who saves us.

He saves us by grace through faith. It is not something we have have done to ave achieved this. It is a gift of God. Ephesians 2:8

May I ask, do you believe that Jesus is divine? that he is the Son of God?

 

[justbyfaith]

Is it grace through faith, or faith through grace?

grace through faith, Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:1-2.

The old covenant is also known as the Law of Moses.

The new covenant is that the law (of Moses) is written on the heart and mind according to Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16.

 

[justbyfaith]

May I ask, do you believe that Jesus is divine? that he is the Son of God?

It doesn't matter; he's saved even if he doesn't...

 

[HARK!]

Indeed this is true but you have pointed out why some Christians believe in that the law of Moses does not apply to us today. The old covenant is also known as the Law of Moses. So if a covenant is new, the old covenant is passing away..

How things are known; and what scripture says are two different things. I know of no scripture that says that the law that YHWH gave to Moses, the law that Yahshua's entire ministry preached we were to follow, the law that Yahshua set the example of obedience to, unto death, was done away with in a new covenant.

In fact, long after that Passover evening, where Yahshua spoke of that covenant, right before he ascended; he continued to speak of his father's law being fulfilled.

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

Now when a bad tenant is evicted for breaking the contract; the landlord brings in a new tenant, with a new contract. Does the landlord provide a new contract devoid of the terms that he evicted the first tenant for breaking?