What Old Covenant Laws are the New Covenant believer to obey?

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Big Boy Johnson

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There is no way to get around the fact that there was a homoerotic dimension to the love of Jonathan for David

That's what satan keep telling mankind to get as many as possible to become gay and go to hell!

God condemns being gay so he does not then accept David as being gay saying David was a man after God's own hart... God is not a liar!

1 Samuel 20:16 tells us that Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David concerning becoming King.

The covenant promise of Jonathan assured David that he was telling the truth and had no designs on the throne that God would give to David after Saul (16:1-13)

The relationship was a friendship based on a covenant made between the two and back then an agreement (covenant) meant something to people and they swore by their own lives, meaning if they break the covenant they expect the other party o kill them for it.

The claim that Jonathan and David were gay lovers is not only laughable in light of the whole counsel of God, this false claim is proof that those who believe this satanic lie has been deceived by satan to approve of homosexuality in agreement with modern zeitgeist.

Those doing this are living in unrepentant sin and are worthy of spiritual death (separation from God)

Romans 1:32
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


So, if you need a list of scripture references showing the Lord has condemned homosexuality let me know... you'll want to be sure and repent of the sin of being in agreement with an approving of this filth so you can once again be in right standing with the Lord and not perish.

I'd hate to see someone go to hell for approving of things God calls an abomination. clueless-doh.gif
 

GracePeace

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We're free from serving by the Law (all of it), because Jesus is "God Is Our Righteousness", whereas what is produced by the Law is "a righteousness of my own", so the Law is no longer the method of righteousness/service to God, but, rather, knowing Christ is the method of glorifying God by righteousness.

THAT SAID, the same verse that says the Law was not laid down for the righteous--Christians are called "saints"--meaning it isn't an authoritative guide for righteous LIVING, ALSO says it was given to condemn SINNERS, and it supplies a few examples of things people who walk after the flesh, not after the Spirit, do.

The Law is not for the righteous (Christians), as if it would make them righteous, but it does condemn sinners, which leads them to repent and turn to Christ.

So, the question is, "How do I know I am wandering away from God?" You know that yourself. The EVIDENCE of it is detectable: IF someone is doing the things Paul explains God condemns in several places, you can be identified as not abiding in Christ or God.

Ezekiel says Israel didn't keep God's laws because their hearts went after their idols--when people are indulging in the flesh, committing sins like immorality, stealing, coveting, etc, it is clear they are not abiding in Christ (1 Jn 2:28), but are being led a way by idols (1 Jn 5:21), walking after the flesh, so the Law can function to condemn them.

Paul never mentions Sabbath breaking as a sin, and, in many places, denies the dietary laws are binding, but he, over and over, makes it clear the sexual standard is to be used--if someone is committing those acts, it may be known that such a person is condemned, and must eventually repent or face final condemnation.
 
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GracePeace

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@Arthur81 You "forgot" to answer a previous post where your arguments were dismantled on your favorite topic you are attempting to confuse people about.

 

Big Boy Johnson

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@Arthur81 You "forgot" to answer a previous post where your arguments were dismantled on your favorite topic you are attempting to confuse people about.

I cannot understand how anyone claiming to be a Christian... can claim being funny is all good with the Lord.

Seems like Sodom and Gomorrah would ring a bell about how the Lord views this filth. clueless-doh.gif
 
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GracePeace

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I cannot understand how anyone claiming to be a Christian... can claim being funny is all good with the Lord.

Seems like Sodom and Gomorrah would ring a bell about how the Lord views this filth. View attachment 40161
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
 

GracePeace

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Yep, I think we've certainly arrived at 2 Timothy 4:3

Funny how @Arthur81 goes silent when he's silenced by Scripture--it's happened in two of his threads consecutively now--but how he never openly repents of or recants his dog poop message of sticking your pecker into defecation holes.

Makes you wonder if he's here because he's actually interested in discussing the truth of the matter (whether sodomy is OK with God in Scripture), or whether he is just here to try to poison Christians with what he knows are absolute lies he knows are irreconcilable with the Bible.
 

Arthur81

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Funny how @Arthur81 goes silent when he's silenced by Scripture--it's happened in two of his threads consecutively now--but how he never openly repents of or recants his dog poop message of sticking your pecker into defecation holes.

Makes you wonder if he's here because he's actually interested in discussing the truth of the matter (whether sodomy is OK with God in Scripture), or whether he is just here to try to poison Christians with what he knows are absolute lies he knows are irreconcilable with the Bible.
I frankly tire of replying to so much ignorance. I've expressed my biblical view on male on male sexual sin in that thread, on homosexuality. I am not going to rehash it here. No fundamentalist/evangelical yet has found a verse applying to a Christian believer that condemns a male to male relationship with intimacy. The verses erroneously claimed are either about abuse (sodomizing) or male cult prostitutes. I also take notice of the language used in his(seemingly GP) reply:

"Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead, let there be thanksgiving." (Eph 5:4 NRSV)
or
"No coarse, stupid, or flippant talk: these things are out of place; you should rather be thanking God." (Eph 5:4 REB)
or
"Avoid shameful and foolish talk and low jesting—they are all alike discreditable—and in place of these give thanks." (Eph 5:4 Weymouth)

Readers can choose their preferred adjectives.
 

Arthur81

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Funny how @Arthur81 goes silent when he's silenced by Scripture--it's happened in two of his threads consecutively now--but how he never openly repents of or recants his dog poop message of sticking your pecker into defecation holes.

Makes you wonder if he's here because he's actually interested in discussing the truth of the matter (whether sodomy is OK with God in Scripture), or whether he is just here to try to poison Christians with what he knows are absolute lies he knows are irreconcilable with the Bible.
I do not know how anyone of any education would use "sodomy" and "homosexuality" as if they are synonyms, they are NOT.
 

Behold

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I do not know how anyone of any education would use "sodomy" and "homosexuality" as if they are synonyms, they are NOT.

A Homosexual is defined by homosexual sex acts committed as a sexual lifestyle.

They are not an ethnic group. They are a same gender sexuality perversion, = practicing it.

See, when the USA TX supreme court legalized SODOMY, in '2003 or 2004, they were legalizing Homo-Sexual SEX ACTS, so that the Gays who were being arrested in Gay Bar Bathrooms and so forth for their morally filthy perverted sexual encounters, could now enjoy their sexual perversion, with the blessing of the LAW.

Pandora's Box was ripped open....
 
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GracePeace

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I frankly tire of replying to so much ignorance. I've expressed my biblical view on male on male sexual sin in that thread, on homosexuality. I am not going to rehash it here. No fundamentalist/evangelical yet has found a verse applying to a Christian believer that condemns a male to male relationship with intimacy. The verses erroneously claimed are either about abuse (sodomizing) or male cult prostitutes. I also take notice of the language used in his(seemingly GP) reply:

"Entirely out of place is obscene, silly, and vulgar talk; but instead, let there be thanksgiving." (Eph 5:4 NRSV)
or
"No coarse, stupid, or flippant talk: these things are out of place; you should rather be thanking God." (Eph 5:4 REB)
or
"Avoid shameful and foolish talk and low jesting—they are all alike discreditable—and in place of these give thanks." (Eph 5:4 Weymouth)

Readers can choose their preferred adjectives.
I do not know how anyone of any education would use "sodomy" and "homosexuality" as if they are synonyms, they are NOT.
Your ignorance has already been addressed--if you had a reply, I'm sure you would've given it. If you do haven't done, I await it.
 

Arthur81

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A Homosexual is defined by homosexual sex acts committed as a sexual lifestyle.

They are not an ethnic group. They are a same gender sexuality perversion, = practicing it.

See, when the USA TX supreme court legalized SODOMY, in '2003 or 2004, they were legalizing Homo-Sexual SEX ACTS, so that the Gays who were being arrested in Gay Bar Bathrooms and so forth for their morally filthy perverted sexual encounters, could now enjoy their sexual perversion, with the blessing of the LAW.

Pandora's Box was ripped open....
A man is a homosexual male by his desire, whether he acts upon that desire or not.

From the Merriam-Webster:

"Usage of Sodomy
The word sodomy has a long history of use in reference to culturally stigmatized sex acts, and often specifically to sex acts between people of the same sex. In current usage, the term occurs most commonly in contexts relating to laws against such acts (called sodomy laws). In 2003, the U.S. Supreme Court held laws against consensual sex acts between adults of the same sex to be unconstitutional."

I underlined the key point on proper usage today. When you read news articles about someone convicted of sodomy, the act was an abusive act; not about private, consensual relationships.
 

GracePeace

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A man is a homosexual male by his desire, whether he acts upon that desire or not.
Christians don't accept that modern idea. We know God has been delivering people from homosexuality for millennia--the darkness you choose is in spite of this fact. You hate Scripture--and we know that, by extension, you hate the God of Scripture. Anyone who loves God also loves the truth--"love rejoces in truth"--the reason you reject God's Word is because you're not of God, as Christ warns in John 8.
 
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Big Boy Johnson

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I frankly tire of replying to so much ignorance.

Yeah, when one looks at things from the viewpoint of the blind mind of man kind and is being carnally minded rather the spiritually minded seeing things from the view point of the Mind of Christ... it can get tiresome having people correcting you... but they do so cause they hate to see people continue in their agreement with the devil.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


Rejecting what the Lord's Word says about being funny as being an abomination... is being carnally minded and needs to be repented of to avoid spiritual death.

Romans 8:6
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.



I do not know how anyone of any education would use "sodomy" and "homosexuality" as if they are synonyms, they are NOT.

God calls them sodomites.
 
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Fred J

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3. All the Old Covenant laws for they come from God?
Indeed they came from GOD through Moses, given and made with the Israelites. Even though it's mentioned that the second tablets was given by an angel, since the first one broke.

They are Spiritual, but only men were weak and incompetent to obey GOD and do HIS will in fulfilling them.
4. No Old Covenant law for all was abolished and annulled?
Correct, for Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled, not only the Law but also the sayings of the Prophets in the books of the Prophets.

The world's sin is no longer counted based on breaking the 10 commandments law nor the law in one's conscience naturally embodied. As according to the Holy Spirit sent to us, the world is wrong in regards sin. For, their only sin will be for not believing in GOD only begotten Son, Jesus, HE gave to the world HE so loved.

It's best also believers reach out to the world and minister the Gospel to them.
5. Only the everlasting Law of God existing prior to the Old Covenant, which is also found contained in the Old Covenant, and continuing by direct command from Jesus in the New Covenant?

Which do you believe and on what scriptures do you base your belief?
Lord Jesus Christ gave and made with the church the New Covenant through the Apostles. Based on also coreference from the Old Covenant in support with the New Covenant. The church apparently come under as 'doers' and 'abiders' of the New Covenant, from Matthew to Revelation.

Thank you and GOD in Christ Jesus bless those who have ears, listen and pay attention.
 

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Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

The only law that was abolished was the blood offering of animals. When Jesus entered death, God accepted the sacrifice made on the cross and considered the work of redemption finished once and for all time, and the vail of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom signifying that the blood of animals would no longer be acceptable or necessary as a practice and neither the law of circumcision's , since Jesus had fulfilled the whole law.

Having said that however, when we are born again, we die to our flesh and raised up in the spirit by grace. By Grace I say because Jesus already paid the price and does not have to return to the cross again and again and again, but the cross remains and does not pass away and neither does His Word. We accept by faith and when we do God can not help but forgive us because that law is still in practice. If God did not forgive someone after repenting and accepting Jesus, then God would be found to be unrighteous, may it never be says the apostle.

Don't be adamant and religious about what laws you think need abolishing, God's mercy is greater than our stupidity and His Grace is more sufficient than all treasures untold. God is the same yesterday, today, yeah and forever. What God wanted from Adam and Eve through the Tree of life, what God wanted from the creation of Israel through the Law, and what He wants from mankind through the law of faith in His son Christ Jesus, hasn't changed. There are no more mysteries and there are no more excuses. There is only Jesus and Him crucified.
 

Big Boy Johnson

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I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts

Yes, that would be the ... Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


In the New Testament... there is a new priesthood where Jesus is our High Priest instead of Moses and as such we are no longer under the law of Moses, but now we are under the Law of Christ.

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.
 
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Yes, that would be the ... Law of Christ, not the Law of Moses.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.


In the New Testament... there is a new priesthood where Jesus is our High Priest instead of Moses and as such we are no longer under the law of Moses, but now we are under the Law of Christ.

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.
First off; None of either Law is the of man, not Moses or anyone on this planet. The commands were "written" by the hand of God, and God says this, my word, (whether written or stated), does not come back to me empty.

Secondly; The entire Bible from start to finish is the revelation God's word and the coming Messiah in the flesh, Christ Jesus. The Apostles did not have the "New" testament scriptures to preach or teach from. Most of the new testament hadn't even been written let alone preached. The Apostles had the old testament to preach Jesus and Him crucified from, because the old testament revealed both the old and the new in detail. The Apostles were discipled in the new testament from Old testament scriptures. GOD DID NOT ABOLISH THAT!

The Jews missed it, because that "HAD" to. God put a partial blindness on them. If He had not, and the Jews did miss Jesus as the messiah, who would have put Him to death since that is EXACTLY why God sent Him. Who would have beat him to fulfill the scriptures of His suffering and death for our sake. When Jesus said, "God forgive them for they know not what they do" God did that. Just as He did it again when Stephan ask God to forgive them for stoning him.

God does not nullify His own word because He is omnipotent. Now, having said all of that, God makes it clear in Mathew, that the only law that will be accepted when facing Jesus before entering into His kingdom is this. Were the hungry fed, were those in need of shelter and warmth provide for, were the thirsty quenched. Which one of these were abolished in the old testament law. Jesus does not let those in the new testament get away with saying but LORD, we did these tricks in your name, give us a treat. Jesus says to them, I never knew you.

"Do not think more highly of yourself than you ought" We gentiles are grafted in, we did not replace the Jews, and we did not take their place. "To the Jew first, means exactly that".
 

Big Boy Johnson

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Well you cannot overcome what the Lord clearly said in His Word by the Holy Ghost thru His Apostle....

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
 
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GracePeace

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First off; None of either Law is the of man, not Moses or anyone on this planet. The commands were "written" by the hand of God, and God says this, my word, (whether written or stated), does not come back to me empty.

Secondly; The entire Bible from start to finish is the revelation God's word and the coming Messiah in the flesh, Christ Jesus. The Apostles did not have the "New" testament scriptures to preach or teach from. Most of the new testament hadn't even been written let alone preached. The Apostles had the old testament to preach Jesus and Him crucified from, because the old testament revealed both the old and the new in detail. The Apostles were discipled in the new testament from Old testament scriptures. GOD DID NOT ABOLISH THAT!

The Jews missed it, because that "HAD" to. God put a partial blindness on them. If He had not, and the Jews did miss Jesus as the messiah, who would have put Him to death since that is EXACTLY why God sent Him. Who would have beat him to fulfill the scriptures of His suffering and death for our sake. When Jesus said, "God forgive them for they know not what they do" God did that. Just as He did it again when Stephan ask God to forgive them for stoning him.

God does not nullify His own word because He is omnipotent. Now, having said all of that, God makes it clear in Mathew, that the only law that will be accepted when facing Jesus before entering into His kingdom is this. Were the hungry fed, were those in need of shelter and warmth provide for, were the thirsty quenched. Which one of these were abolished in the old testament law. Jesus does not let those in the new testament get away with saying but LORD, we did these tricks in your name, give us a treat. Jesus says to them, I never knew you.

"Do not think more highly of yourself than you ought" We gentiles are grafted in, we did not replace the Jews, and we did not take their place. "To the Jew first, means exactly that".
Christ literally said one of the Torah laws, keeping of vows, was "of the evil one" (Mt 5). James, likewise, prohibits making "any vow" (Ja 5).

Since you will say, "But Christ upheld the Law, He didn't come to do away with the Law": the underlying principle of "keep your vows" was "Do not treat God or His Name with disrespect, but honor Him by keeping your vows you make", and Christ, yes, preserves that underlying principle by calling vows "of the evil one", prohibiting taking any vow at all, because, He says, taking a vow ITSELF violates the underlying principle, because it shows a lack of honor due to God by taking too much honor upon yourself ("lest they should boast against Me"--boasting of oneself is boasting against God). "You cannot make one hair Black or White. Who are you that you should say that you 'vow' to do this or that?"

He, likewise, defines Torah's "any-cause" divorce as "adultery" (going forward), and as a mere concession that had been given on account of the hardness of those men's hearts. Christ was upset with men for their hardness of heart, their unbelief, and Heb 3 clarifies that it is the deceitfulness of sin that hardens hearts and causes unbelief--hardened hearts (for which many Torah Laws had been given, we are now taught) are sinful unholy godless hearts, hearts where the devil is active. They weren't born again, so they needed such concessions, but we have no excuse. We don't need, and are not given, those concessions.

The same is apparently true of vows--making and keeping of them had to have been another concession. Torah is full of such concessions. Another, I'm sure, would have to have been the Law that "You can beat your slave to death--as long as he doesn't die the same day, but survives a few days after the beating, and then dies, because he is your property". Tell me that that is something a soft-hearted son of God would do... yet God enshrined it in the "glorious eternal Torah": no, it is not as you say.
 
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