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What required for going to Heaven?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Dodo_David, Dec 23, 2013.

  1. shturt678

    shturt678 New Member

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    Thank you folks for caring!

    Although other denominations also use the same title "Jehovah" that I use, first and foremost it's always "Title" + "Revelation" this Name rests upon. Same name, different revelation, viz., Jesus = / = God where I firmly believe Jesus = God although we're using the same title, different revelation thus "another Jehovah" from the Jehovah I know and believe in.

    Old Jack
     
  2. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    You are definitely not the first to attack the name of Jehovah and won't be the last. Bible translators have been doing it for centuries, so you can find a lot company with your disdain for God's name. The Catholic church has forbidden its use among its priests. As Jeremiah wrote of the Jewish prophets: "They intend to make my people forget my name by the dreams they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot my name because of Ba′al (or with the use of "Lord" or "God" instead of Jehovah)."(Jer 23:27) But Jehovah says of these: "So here I am against the prophets,” declares Jehovah, “who steal (or remove) my words from one another.”(Jer 23:30)

    I will not wrangle with you over God's name of Jehovah as rendered in English, for of the Pharisees who constantly argued with Jesus, Matthew wrote: "Then the disciples came and said to him: “Do you know that the Pharisees were stumbled at hearing what you said ? In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.”(Matt 15:12-14)


    The name of Jehovah will stand, despite your repeated attempts to cast it aside, like the churches of Christendom have done for centuries. As prophetically spoken of through Ezekiel, God said: "I will certainly sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the nations, which you profaned among them; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified (or made holy) among you before their eyes."(Eze 36:23)


    That day is fast approaching, called Armageddon.(Rev 16:14, 16) Jesus established that only a few (in relation to earth's population) would be doing Jehovah's will, sanctifying his name: "Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it."(Matt 7:13, 14)


    Jesus taught his genuine disciples (which are only a few) to pray for God's name to "hallowed" or sanctified, not some nameless person, at Matthew 6:9. What name is to be used ? Lord or God ? These are not names, but titles, and Jesus did not say for Christians to pray: "Our Father in the heavens, let your title be hallowed", but rather "let your name be hallowed" or sanctified, cleansed of all the reproach it has received over the centuries, including the brazen attempt to hide the name Jehovah.


    Thus, the apostle Paul wrote, quoting from Joel 2:32: "For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”(Rom 10:13) Jesus said just hours before his death: "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3) Only those who have come to know God, using his personal name in their language and identifying with that name, can gain everlasting life. No one can know someone intimately unless they know their personal name.


    At Matthew 12, Matthew wrote of Jesus, quoting from Isaiah 42:1, 2: "Look ! My servant whom I chose, my beloved, whom I have approved ! I will put my spirit upon him, and what justice is he will make clear to the nations.He will not quarrel nor cry aloud, nor will anyone hear his voice in the main streets."(Matt 12:18, 19) Enough information has been presented. Thus, I will follow Jesus advice and ' let you be'.
     
  3. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Sadly all you did was ignore what I posted and went back to the same old propaganda. I'm not attacking the name I'm refuting the use of it. It is NOT a Biblical name no matter what the KJV may have interpreted it as. Your continued use of it from the KJV only indicates your bondage to the name and translation, and not an understanding of what YHYWH truly is. Ex 3:14 shows what name Moses was to tell the people. Tex explained it in a clear nutshell. Ignoring instructions from peers is what cults do.
     
    Tex likes this.
  4. Tex

    Tex New Member

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    Thank you StanJ =)
     
  5. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Gotta give props when they're due Tex. ;)
    We need a like button on this site.
     
  6. williemac

    williemac New Member

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    This is a quote from #342. That day is fast approaching, called Armageddon.(Rev 16:14, 16) Jesus established that only a few (in relation to earth's population) would be doing Jehovah's will, sanctifying his name: "Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it."(Matt 7:13, 14).
    Jesus spoke in the present tense concerning the narrow gate. But the above comment on it puts it into future tense, as though this narrow gate is permanent and will not change. Jesus did not speak of it in that way. He merely commented on the present condition at that time. In fact, when asked who can make it in, Jesus followed with the fact that with men it is impossible, but with God, all things are possible. So, how is it that some people assume that Jesus was powerless to improve man's chances of surviving? How is it that they think He had no intention of fixing the situation that He was observing?

    The truth is that He came along and was opposed by the religious institution and was killed by it....during and within the confines of the first covenant.
    Paul explained in Galatians that the law was given as a temporary measure to confine all the world in sin until the Seed should come, and furthermore that the covenant of faith was kept hidden and not revealed until the appointed time.

    We can see from the hindsight that Paul was given and the revelation of the differences between the two covenants, that a change was made by God. And this change came about as a result of and not until...the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus. God had made a promise to Abraham that his seed should be as the sand of the sea. John saw into the future and observed the fulfillment of this promise in seeing a crown before the throne that could not be numbered. This is the same as "few"? No! God made a promise, and God made it possible. The narrow gate was and is to this day, the attempts from men to get in on their own merit.

    Knocking on doors (quietly, I might add. you can barely hear the knock), and standing on street corners with tracts, is not necessarily wrong. But most people in a certain organization are doing these things as their duty to ensure their own survival. Wrong motive. That's the narrow gate. With man it's impossible to merit everlasting life. It is a free gift. It is given at the beginning, not the end. As a result, when one can reach out to others strictly for their benefit and not be clouded by one's own future interests in one's motive, then one has the understanding and is bearing fruit (re; the parable of the sower). Otherwise he is just working for a wage.

    I have had plenty of past experience talking and studying with more than a few of these lovely people. I have logged dozens of hours in intimate meetings with several of them. Don't tell me I dont know what I am talking about.
     
  7. Nomad

    Nomad Post Tenebras Lux

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    Yes, but the Greek present tense also indicates continuous action without defining the beginning or end of that action. There is no other statement in the context of Jesus' discourse to give us that information and to fill in that information with a theological presupposition is eisogesis not exegesis. So to say that Jesus' comments apply only to a present-to-him situation is going beyond what the text indicates.

    One thing you haven't explained is the cause and purpose of a temporary narrow way? Also, I'm not sure how far your view of this topic goes. In other words, are you a Universalist?

    There's not necessarily a contradiction here. Comparatively speaking, the multitude in Heaven would be few when compared to all of those who have come and gone throughout the history of the world who never found salvation.

    Where did Jesus teach that as the meaning of the narrow gate? If that's the case, why did Jesus *command his audience to enter the narrow gate? The parrallel account in Luke adds "strive" to enter the narrow gate. You have Jesus commanding people to abandon faith for their own merit.

    *The Greek words for "enter" in Matthew and "strive" in Luke are in the imperative mood. In other words, both words were said as commands.

    Also, your statement quoted above, contradicts your teaching that the narrow gate was a temporary situation. If was temporary, then it can't be a reality "to this day."
     
  8. shturt678s

    shturt678s New Member

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    Thank you for caring again!

    Unable to find fault....been a long time since accessed the title page of Calvin's Institutes, published 1561 on Wiki...the narrow portal thornbush and the broad portal with flower in the entrance and flames flaring over the top.

    Old Jack
     
  9. Guestman

    Guestman Active Member

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    If Jehovah "is NOT a Biblical name", then what is ? And also answer this, what names would you use for Jeremiah (meaning "Jehovah Exalts"), Jehoshaphat (meaning "Jehovah is Judge"), Jehoaddah (meaning "Jehovah has Decked Himself "), Jehoaddin (meaning "Jehovah is Pleasure"), Jehoahaz (meaning "May Jehovah Take Hold"), Jehohanan (meaning "Jehovah Has Shown Favor"), Jehoachin (meaning "Jehovah Has Firmly Established"), Jehoiada (meaning "May Jehovah Know"), Jehoiakim (meaning "Jehovah Raises Up"), Jehoiarib (meaning "May Jehovah Contend"), Jehonadab (meaning "Jehovah is Willing"), Jehonathan (meaning "Jehovah Has Given"), Jehoram (meaning "Jehovah Is High"), Jehosheba (meaning "Jehovah Is Plenty"), Jehoshua (meaning "Jehovah Is Salvation"), Jehozadak (meaning "Jehovah Pronounces Righteous"), Jehu (meaning "Jehovah Is He"), Jehucal (meaning "Jehovah Prevails"), Jekamiah (meaning "Jah Has Raised Up") ?


    These all start with the letters that make up the name Jehovah. Since you want to hide the personal name of God, Jehovah, tell me, what are you going to do with these names, that have incorporated part of the name Jehovah ? And for your information, I do not accept "instructions" from my peers, just as Jesus did not accept "instructions" from his peers. Rather, he told the Jews that "I always do the things pleasing to" Jehovah God.(John 8:29)


    And how does Jehovah feel about ones who want to cover over his name, hiding from others seeing it, those who try to have others "forget my name" ?(Jer 23:27) Jehovah said very succinctly: "I am against the prophets who steal my words from one another.”(Jer 23:30)


    By hiding or covering over or supplanting God's personal name of Jehovah that has been established in the English language, you are placing yourself against him and he against you. Its your choice, but it will not turn out well, to say the least.
     
  10. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    It is a misrepresentation of YHWH, and is also OFF topic on this thread. Start your own thread if you want to deal with this issue. I'll be more than happy to set you straight.
     
  11. Theodore A. Jones

    Theodore A. Jones New Member

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    "For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous." Rom. 2:13 He is not referencing the Sinai code or ceremonial laws of the OT.
     
  12. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Hey Teddy, how about you stick to the OP in the threads you participate in and stop trying to spout your misunderstood dogma. i don't think you'll last long here either if you continue this course of action.
     
  13. Chuckt

    Chuckt New Member

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    Jesus didn't become an angel to die for angels. Jesus became a man to die for men.
    It is belief in a sacrifice for my sins just like believers were forgiven in the Old Testament for bringing their sacrifice to God and transferring their sins to the animal.

    If you want it your way, King David and Moses wouldn't make it because David killed a man and committed adultery but God said that David is a man after His own heart. Moses killed a man and the Bible says that no murderer has eternal life but we see him on the mount of transfiguration with Jesus which means he went to heaven.

    Romans 5:1 'Therefore having been justified by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

    This is past tense which gives us the access to God presence.

    We have been justified. There is no ongoing justification so if you believe the pretexts and take the verses out of context, you have an ongoing justification that can't save you because it is not substitutionary atonement where God takes your place and you don't have the righteousness of Christ because you have your own works which are filthy rags before God and you can't tell me how much work is enough for God.

    We need some verses on substitutionary atonement which means God only accepts Jesus as the perfect sacrifice for our sins.
    Then you rob me of helping others understand the Bible. The wrath of man doesn't work the righteousness of God.
    If you know enough of the Bible, you can be the only argument but administration actions against other people ruin that opportunity.
    Ruin their opportunity over what?
     
  14. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    You`re Teddy?
     
  15. Chuckt

    Chuckt New Member

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    No. I don't know who Teddy is. There are actually millions of people in this world and they all aren't Teddy.

    Think up an original question, ask it on Google and what you will find is that other people have thought of it first in most cases.
    Human behavior is the same with some people with variation. In other words, we all get hot, we all get cold, etc. We all have emotion.
     
  16. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Well then explain your answer and address it accordingly. Answering like I was addressing you doesn't help.
     
  17. Jacob_Rising

    Jacob_Rising New Member

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    I think people need to ask a different question, salvation is salvation, and the majority have salvation, but only the few walk in abundant zoe life.

    The Temple is made in the design of the kingdom of heaven and there are 3 sections.

    We see Jesus talking about people coming into the kingdom to recline with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and then some of the sons of the kingdom are escorted out. We also see people coming into the marriage banquet, but once they have gotten in, they too are escorted out.

    We are told that the works of every man will be tested by fire, but if somebody's work is burned up, he himself will be saved, but only as one who has gone through a fire.

    So we see differences that tell us that everybody will not be treated the same, and so the question to me isn't how to get into heaven, but it is,'' How to we obtain the reward of abundant life?''

    1 Corinthians 3

    12If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14If what has been built survives, The builder will receive a reward..
     
  18. williemac

    williemac New Member

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    very nicely put. thanks for your input.
     
  19. Classic Rider

    Classic Rider New Member

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    I just want to give my opinion

    To get to heaven we must Believe in Jesus Christ. What does that mean? To start with we must believe that we are sinful and are unable to please God by our works because all of our so-called righteousness is as filthy rags in His sight.

    Then we must believe the Gospel. That Jesus Christ is fully divine and He died on the cross and shed His blood to pay the penalty for our sins and then He rose again from the dead. Then we must have faith in Him for salvation. That means to believe that even though we are terrible sinners, Jesus died for us and His death atones for our sins and thus, we are right with God. So faith is simply to believe and trust that Jesus' blood covers my sin and puts me right with God.

    What right do we have to believe such a thing? Because the Gospel commands us to believe. Also it invites us to believe. Rev. 22:17 says "whoever desires let him take of the water of life (salvation) freely". Upon believing we are justified... which means that we are declared and seen as not guilty in God's sight.

    What about repentance? There are two words for repent in the Greek Metanoia and metamelomai. Metanoia means to change your mind about a thing. It means to change your opinions or viewpoint. Metamelomai means to regret or sorrow. Metamelomai is never used in a passage about how to be justified or saved. Metanoia is used regarding how to be saved. So to be saved I must repent (metanoia... change my opinion of about salvation by works and look to Jesus for salvation instead) and believe ( believe that He saves me by His sacrifice on the cross and not by my works) In this sense repentance and faith are basically synonyms. That is why the Gospel of John never even bothers to mention repentence and always just says Believe over and over. The Bible never says to repent of sins for justification. However when we believe in Christ alone for salvation and are justified we are immediately indwelt by the Spirit and at that point we cannot help but repent of sins.

    Does this mean that Holiness doesnt matter? Well when we believe and are justified the Holy Spirit comes into us and indwells us and we can never be happy in sin after that ever again. We can sin but the Spirit in us will produce sorrow for sin and He will chasten and discipline us so that we cannot remain in sin for the rest of our lives. So Holiness is important but it is the result of being saved not how to be saved. Ephesians 2: 8 says... "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, not of works lest anyone should boast. Some will say that I have made salvation so easy that even a child could do it. That is the point. Jesus said unless you become like a little child you will in no way enter the kingdom. An adult trys to earn things. A child just believes that His daddy will provide. Have you become like a little Child? Just believe and trust that your Abba (Daddy) will provide your salvation by His Son.
     
  20. williemac

    williemac New Member

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    Very well done. Many would like to add their own efforts to the requirement. But we are told that God gives grace to the humble and resists the proud. It stands to reason then that those in Galatia who were attempting to be justified by works of law were told that they were fallen from grace. This after they had already received the Spirit by the hearing of faith. Jesus confirmed this pattern in Luke 18:10-14.
    The lesson is that it takes humility to forsake one's own merit and take life as a free gift. How incredible that God has done all the work through His Son and has made everlasting life an absolutely free gift. In Rom.5, it is called a free gift. In rom.8:32, we find that because God did not spare His Son but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not also with Him FREELY give us ALL things? And in 1Cor.2:12, we find that one of the messages of the Holy Spirit to us is that we might know the things freely given to us by God. (NKJ)>

    It is difficult for those who want to contribute to their justification, to accept this truth. Furthermore, many think that faith is the qualification for life. It is not. It is the method by which it is given to us. But the qualification as I pointed out already...is humility. This is confirmed by the scripture which tells us through the confession of sin we are forgiven. As you pointed out, it is not the repentance from sin by which we are saved. It is a change of mind, which results in the pattern revealed by Paul in Rom.10:9,10. Salvation comes through the heart's belief (faith) and through confession of the mouth.

    To add strength to your post, I would also share that on the day of Pentecost when they asked Peter what they should do and he told them to repent, there was no mention of sin. The conversation was all about the identity of Jesus and what they did to Him. This cut them to the heart when they realized they had crucified their Messiah. Peter simply said to repent and rather be baptized in His name. He told them to change their mind about Jesus.

    Again, Nice post. Cheers and blessings.
     
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