What required for going to Heaven?

[Nomad]

The Hebrew letters Yod Hey Vav Hey are properly transliterated as YHWH but never pronounced.

Again, this is a superstition that developed over time. There's no command to refrain from pronouncing God's name. As a matter of fact, Moses was commanded to speak it to the children of Israel.

Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

 

[StanJ]

Again, this is a superstition that developed over time. There's no command to refrain from pronouncing God's name. As a matter of fact, Moses was commanded to speak it to the children of Israel.

Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

He wasn't commanded to speak it, he was instructed to tell them. Of course I AM is not Jehovah is it? It was NOT superstition, it was reverence, but the issue being discussed is the name Jehovah.

 

[Nomad]

He wasn't commanded to speak it, he was instructed to tell them.

Talk about equivocation! Let's see here... "instruct" versus "command" and "tell" versus "say." Yeah, that's a distinction without a difference. Once again:

Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

This would require Moses to pronounce God's name. Notice, he's not told to hold up a placard and be silent. WOW!

Of course I AM is not Jehovah is it?

I never said that it was. I'll refer you to a previous post. http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19501-what-required-for-going-to-heaven/page-10#entry232232

It was NOT superstition, it was reverence, but the issue being discussed is the name Jehovah.

The Jews were never told to do it and the result was the name "Jehovah." So yep, I'm right on topic. Again...

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19501-what-required-for-going-to-heaven/page-10#entry232232

 

[StanJ]

Talk about equivocation! Let's see here... "instruct" versus "command" and "tell" versus "say." Yeah, that's a distinction without a difference. Once again:
Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
This would require Moses to pronounce God's name. Notice, he's not told to hold up a placard and be silent. WOW!

I never said that it was. I'll refer you to a previous post. http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19501-what-required-for-going-to-heaven/page-10#entry232232

The Jews were never told to do it and the result was the name "Jehovah." So yep, I'm right on topic. Again...

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19501-what-required-for-going-to-heaven/page-10#entry232232

For someone who purports to know words and the importance of their meaning, this is just plain prevarication to take this route. You KNOW the difference. Command is NOT the same, and God did NOT say my name is I AM. He said tell them I AM has sent you. That was His title.
God also told instructed Moses in v15,
“Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’

“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation."


You can find this name throughout the OT, and also in Matthew 22:32 and Mark 12:26.

Good, so you acknowledge that "I AM" is not Jehovah and yet you continue to argue about something I said to you that is correct? Me think you just don't plain like me or what I stand for? That would not be surprising as many Calvinists seem to vehemently oppose me at EVERY turn.

No, the OP is about what's required to go to heaven. You just managed to keep this off topic for longer than it should have, to a discussion I was having with Guestman.

 

[Nomad]

God did NOT say my name is I AM. He said tell them I AM has sent you. That was His title.
God also told instructed Moses in v15,
“Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’

“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation."

There's nothing in the text that declares "I AM" to be God's "title." This is just another distinction without a difference. Now, since you don't like verse 14 we can deal with 15. YHWH translated "Lord" in verse 15 is a cognate of the word translated "I AM" in verse 14. All you need is a Strongs Concordance to see this. Look up H3068 (Lord, v15) and you will see that it is related to H1961 (I AM, v14). YHWH does not mean "Lord." The only reason that it's translated that way is to accommodate Jewish superstition. One more time...

Exo 3:15 God also said to Moses, "SAY this to the people of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

Whether we're talking about verse 14 or verse 15, my point stands. Moses was told to SAY what you claim should not be said.

Good, so you acknowledge that "I AM" is not Jehovah and yet you continue to argue about something I said to you that is correct?

This isn't a confusing issue Stan. When the vowels from "adonai" (lord) were eventually incorporated into YHWH it became a word that led to the Latinized form "Jehovah." I'm not sure what part of this you don't get. I explained it 3 times now. Had it not been for a practice that was never commanded, the name "Jehovah" would have never come into existence. That's what I mean by I AM is not "Jehovah."

No, the OP is about what's required to go to heaven. You just managed to keep this off topic for longer than it should have, to a discussion I was having with Guestman.

This is laughable. You are the one who started the "Jehovah" discussion by taking exception to Guestman's use of it. Do I really need to point out the post?

 

[StanJ]

There's nothing in the text that declares "I AM" to be God's "title." This is just another distinction without a difference. Now, since you don't like verse 14 we can deal with 15. YHWH translated "Lord" in verse 15 is a cognate of the word translated "I AM" in verse 14. All you need is a Strongs Concordance to see this. Look up H3068 (Lord, v15) and you will see that it is related to H1961 (I AM, v14). YHWH does not mean "Lord." The only reason that it's translated that way is to accommodate Jewish superstition. One more time...

Exo 3:15 God also said to Moses, "SAY this to the people of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations.

Whether we're talking about verse 14 or verse 15, my point stands. Moses was told to SAY what you claim should not be said.

This isn't a confusing issue Stan. When the vowels from "adonai" (lord) were eventually incorporated into YHWH it became a word that led to the Latinized form "Jehovah." I'm not sure what part of this you don't get. I explained it 3 times now. Had it not been for a practice that was never commanded, the name "Jehovah" would have never come into existence. That's what I mean by I AM is not "Jehovah."

This is laughable. You are the one who started the "Jehovah" discussion by taking exception to Guestman's use of it. Do I really need to point out the post?

Well as He said His name forever is; the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, then obviously it was His title as He did NOT say tell them my NAME is I AM.
What was at issue, before your attempt at misdirection, was the word YHWH and how it is NOT properly translated or rendered as Jehovah.
Apparently it is confusing for you because you are not getting it straight. Adonai was used INSTEAD of YHWH, and Jehovah wasn't the Latinized word it was the incorrect rendering of trying to convert YHWH to an English word by putting vowels as there are in Adonai that were NOT there to begin with.
It doesn't really matter how many times you explain it, if it is wrong, it is wrong.
Sad you find it funny, and I wasn't talking to you was I? I didn't take exception, that is what you do. I corrected his misuse of the word.
What you need to do is stop wasting our time with incorrect assertions.

 

[Nomad]

You have got to be the most thoroughly confused individual I have ever met. How you could read my post and make the following comments is simply mind boggling.

Apparently it is confusing for you because you are not getting it straight. Adonai was used INSTEAD of YHWH,

That's exactly what I said in my last post. Go read it.

...and Jehovah wasn't the Latinized word it was the incorrect rendering of trying to convert YHWH to an English word by putting vowels as there are in Adonai that were NOT there to begin with.

Again, I mentioned the incorporation of the vowels from "adonai" into the tetragrammaton and I mentioned how that word eventually became "Jehovah" in my last post.

I didn't take exception, that is what you do. I corrected his misuse of the word.

Again, another distinction without a difference.

 

[shturt678]

Well as He said His name forever is; the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, then obviously it was His title as He did NOT say tell them my NAME is I AM.
What was at issue, before your attempt at misdirection, was the word YHWH and how it is NOT properly translated or rendered as Jehovah.
Apparently it is confusing for you because you are not getting it straight. Adonai was used INSTEAD of YHWH, and Jehovah wasn't the Latinized word it was the incorrect rendering of trying to convert YHWH to an English word by putting vowels as there are in Adonai that were NOT there to begin with.
It doesn't really matter how many times you explain it, if it is wrong, it is wrong.
Sad you find it funny, and I wasn't talking to you was I? I didn't take exception, that is what you do. I corrected his misuse of the word.
What you need to do is stop wasting our time with incorrect assertions.

Stan the man, throw out a lifeline my brother, RANDOR and myself available!

Old Jack

 

[StanJ]

Stan the man, throw out a lifeline my brother, RANDOR and myself available!

Old Jack

It's OK brother.... Jesus will always keep me afloat. Come on in, the water's fine.

You have got to be the most thoroughly confused individual I have ever met. How you could read my post and make the following comments is simply mind boggling.
That's exactly what I said in my last post. Go read it.
Again, I mentioned the incorporation of the vowels from "adonai" into the tetragrammaton and I mentioned how that word eventually became "Jehovah" in my last post.
Again, another distinction without a difference.

Nomad, your vacillating is quite frustrating but not unexpected, given where you come from. The point is to WRITE what you actually mean and not back peddle through equivocation afterwards. I think I've made it quite clear you OPINIONS don't really carry ANY weight with me. Facts and scripture do.

 

[Nomad]

Nomad, your vacillating is quite frustrating but not unexpected, given where you come from. The point is to WRITE what you actually mean and not back peddle through equivocation afterwards.

There has been no vacillating on my part. Here is the link to my first post on this topic. I've been saying the same thing from day one.

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19501-what-required-for-going-to-heaven/page-10#entry232232

 

[StanJ]

There has been no vacillating on my part. Here is the link to my first post on this topic. I've been saying the same thing from day one.

http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19501-what-required-for-going-to-heaven/page-10#entry232232

and that post was wrong which is why I addressed it. Now let's move along shall we.

 

[Nomad]

and that post was wrong which is why I addressed it. Now let's move along shall we.

Show me where it was wrong.

 

[StanJ]

Show me where it was wrong.

Why? You can read the last sentence yourself and you won't acknowledge it as such, so it's a waste of my time to have to reiterate everything again.

 

[Tex]

Jesus is Savior. What is required? Jesus. And that's all. I do not recieve salvation because I know something, do something, or have any sort of merit to me. I recieve salvation because of God's grace through Jesus Christ. Anyone who pretends otherwise does not understand how unworthy we are and how great God is.

Now, in response to this grace recieved by God, I am to be perfect as my Father in heaven is perfect. This would include those Old Testament laws that have not been fulfilled by the Christ as well as the fullness of "love" that is not written except in the hearts of man.

 

[aspen]

Salvation is not a substance - it is a state of perfection

 

[StanJ]

Salvation is not a substance - it is a state of perfection

I know it's a state of forgiveness, I'm not sure how it becomes a state of perfection?

 

[aspen]

Well salvation is the result of justification and a life time of sanctification, which produces a perfect lover of God and neighbor - restoring us to a pre-fall state. I believe God forgave us the instant we sinned in the Garden, but we were unable to get past our guilt and shame to accept His forgiveness - He actually had to die for us in order for us to get how much He loves and forgives us. Therefore salvation is the state of forgiveness and the result of perfection. When we are saved we are perfect lovers and will be in a state of being that will allow us to walk in intimacy with God forever.

 

[StanJ]

Well salvation is the result of justification and a life time of sanctification, which produces a perfect lover of God and neighbor - restoring us to a pre-fall state. I believe God forgave us the instant we sinned in the Garden, but we were unable to get past our guilt and shame to accept His forgiveness - He actually had to die for us in order for us to get how much He loves and forgives us. Therefore salvation is the state of forgiveness and the result of perfection. When we are saved we are perfect lovers and will be in a state of being that will allow us to walk in intimacy with God forever.

Ok well THAT POV is not supported in the Bible, and salvation comes first. The process is shown in Rom 10:9-11
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
and in Rom 8:28-30
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

 

[shturt678]

Ok well THAT POV is not supported in the Bible, and salvation comes first. The process is shown in Rom 10:9-11
If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.”
and in Rom 8:28-30
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

Thank you for caring again!

Only a head's up. Rom.10:9, 10 comes after one underwent a born again experience...the ol' donkey before the cart routine.

Old 'born anew' declaring Jack

 

[StanJ]

Thank you for caring again!

Only a head's up. Rom.10:9, 10 comes after one underwent a born again experience...the ol' donkey before the cart routine.

Old 'born anew' declaring Jack

No, it IS the way to be saved.