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Featured What to do when you are beyond repentance?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by batheltler01, May 9, 2019.

  1. batheltler01

    batheltler01 New Member

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    I find that I have deep feelings of apathy towards prayer. Do you think devoting myself towards prayer and fasting would grant me some encouragement to hear from the Lord or remove some of this resistance? I just need to gain some encouragement to keep fighting.
     
  2. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Since you have been taken in by sins of the flesh, it follows that denial of the flesh, through fasting, would be part of the cure for the spiritual disease that appears to have you in its grip. It is a very good place to start.
     
  3. batheltler01

    batheltler01 New Member

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    These last few days have caused me to doubt whether it is possible that could be in Christ or return.

    I spoke with some brothers over the weekend that assured me that they believe that I am a believer and that there is no loss of salvation. However, I've found that when I feel confident in my salvation, I no longer seem to have any interest at all in the things of the Lord. Everything seems fine. No anxiety or fear. No sense of the reality of my need for Christ. No desire to pursue Christ. Just a desire to relax and have fun.

    I've found myself feeling resistant from the heart to the Lord for the few days. Gritting my teeth at him. With a rage in my heart. I did a reading through Matthew last night with some people from church and found myself becoming angry as I was reading. My heart resisting the Scriptures and a rage against the Lord lighting in me.

    It has progressively gotten worse especially today. I've had an anger today that has screamed, "I don't believe any of this. I should just leave. (the faith)" It hasn't bothered me on a deep level like it has in the past. I feel like I'm gripping onto no leaving with all my might but the Lord is not meeting me there.

    Is this spiritual warfare or have I fallen away?
     
  4. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    I have a question, if you were ran over by a greyhound bus today and died, to find yourself face to face with a Holy God, and he said what have you done that I should allow you in to my heaven, what would your answer be? @batheltler01
     
  5. batheltler01

    batheltler01 New Member

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    I know the answer. There's no reason that I should be allowed into the presence of God. The only way I could be is by the blood of Christ covering me. But the question is, does it? And what confidence could I have that it does based on the condition of my heart and what I'm feeling?
     
  6. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    The just walk by faith
     
  7. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    If you believe you’ll stand before God based on your merit, then you’ll have to explain his cross to me
     
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  8. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Your position in Christ is secure; because you place your only hope in the Cross of Christ.

    But your relationship with Him is not in a good place because of your response to His Lordship over your behaviour.

    As long as you place your trust in what He did for you on the Cross, you are saved.

    Of course, obedience is a foundation for the house you are building and if you do not have Jesus as your Lord, your house will eventually fall when the storms of life do come. In other words, if obedience isn't there, your trust in the finished work of Christ will not stand when it is put to the test.
     
  9. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Faith builds obedience and obedience builds more faith. Have you been practicing obedience, Batheltler? You cannot earn your salvation--we all know that. But you can put yourself into a position of faith-building by practicing obedience. Please read Acts 5:32 and Hebrews 5:9. Your problem appears to be that you don't WANT to be obedient and resent God for requiring it. It possibly has something to do with your church upbringing? Have you done a spiritual fast yet?
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  10. illini1959

    illini1959 Active Member

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    Hello :)

    I'm new to this forum but not to Christ,having been saved for almost 50 years.

    May I ask you a question? Could you share when/how you received Christ? Your testimony?

    If you've already shared this somewhere, please feel free to direct me and I'll go read.

    Thank you!
     
  11. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Here is a link where all the testimonies should be found:

    Testimonies
     
  12. illini1959

    illini1959 Active Member

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    I see 6...? He's only been here a couple of weeks so shouldn't be hard to find. If he didn't post there could he still tell it here?

    Even if not a full on testimony, I'd like to know more about his faith before I comment on it. If possible....

    Thank you!
     
  13. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it would probably good if @batheltler01 gave his testimony of how he became a believer in the first place. It might give us a better perspective on what he is going through now.
     
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  14. illini1959

    illini1959 Active Member

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    Actually only one of those is labeled as "will not be forgiven" - #1.

    Receiving the mark is unforgivable in the sense that people, just as they do now will, reject Christ. So, the reason it's 'unforgivable' is actually because they rejected Christ.

    1 Corinthian 3:16-17 says Do you not know that you are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

    The word "you" in these verses is plural and temple refers to the collective church - not one person. The church will not be destroyed by the death of one person.

    The word "temple" in vs 16 means:

    Strong's Concordance
    naos: a temple
    Original Word: ναός, οῦ, ὁ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
    Transliteration: naos
    Phonetic Spelling: (nah-os')
    Definition: a temple
    Usage: a temple, a shrine, that part of the temple where God himself resides.

    metaphorically, of a company of Christians, a Christian church, as dwelt in by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 3:16

    Romans 8:38-39 tells us nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ. Nothing.

    "For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."
     
  15. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I believe there's a difference between outright rejection of the claims of Christ and those who are ignorant of Him or have not formed an opinion about Him. There is a certain hardness that one sees in those who have outright rejected Christ.
     
  16. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Every individual believer in Christ is each, individually, the temple of the Holy Ghost.

    1Co 6:17, But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

    Eph 3:19, And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  17. batheltler01

    batheltler01 New Member

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    It's actually quite strange. When this started 2 years ago and I felt the Spirit leave, I immediately forgot almost everything about my life with Christ and who God was. All my spiritual knowledge and experiences with the Lord out the window in a moment. All I can remember is bits of conversations I had with lost people and false converts in college where I was sharing my testimony. I'll try to remember as much as I can but it's like trying to remember a dream.

    I grew up in a Christian household. One day when I was around 5 we got home from church one day and my dad took me in his room and asked me if I had ever asked Jesus into my heart. I responded with a no. I wasn't aware that I needed to. My dad, in a round-about way, communicated that if I didn't I would go to hell and be separated from God as well as them. So as any 5 year old would do in that situation, I agreed to accept Jesus and prayed a prayer with my dad. Went before the church and got baptized. Thought I was all set. Except that there was no life change. No change in heart or desire. No hatred of sin and yearning to know Christ more.

    A few years later we moved to a new city and a new church. When I was 10 I went to a youth conference with the youth group. It was a few days long, I recall. I remember the next to last day the speaker came out and said something to the effect of, "I had a sermon planned out but I feel the Spirit leading me to read out of Matthew." So he read out of Matthew and talked about what he was reading. He spoke specifically about the crucifixion, as I recall. I remember the Lord convicting me of sin in that moment. It became real. But I was confused because I fully believed that I was already a Christian. I remember having a deep sense of the reality that I did not actually know God at that time and that I needed to respond by going up front during the invitation. That invitation seemed to go on foreeeeeever. Eventually I decided to respond but it was difficult to even get up. Like my body was heavy. Like there were bricks on me. Eventually, I stood up, the weight dissipated and I went up front and spoke to some guy about becoming a Christian.

    And that was that. Nothing flashy or emotional. But I'm confided I was a believer because there was a clear change in my life and desires afterwards. I really did want to know Christ more deeply after that. I really hated sin and experienced conviction. I desired to submit my life to Christ and serve him. And even through the backsliding that occurred throughout my childhood, teen years and college years, the Lord always brought me back to him through repentance and I found new growth and a restored relationship. So that's it.

    Unfortunately, that is not longer the case for me. I have reverted back to a state of lostness. If you are interested in reading that account, I'll leave a link below to it.

    Loss of Salvation? : TrueChristian
     
  18. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    Having read everything, my impression is that you are trying too hard to become the Christian you think you ought to be. That is one of the problems with Reformed theology. For those so inclined, it makes the adherent obsessive in "proving" that he/she is indeed one of the chosen. The other major problem with Reformed theology is that the adherent says, "I'm one of the chosen, and I can't lose my salvation, so why should I be concerned about sin?" You sound like you have bounced from one to the other and back again--and then bounced some more. Neither of those two extremes is Biblical. We obey because we are saved. Can you resist your habitual sin on one hand, and also rest in the truth that Jesus paid it ALL? There is nothing which can remove you from His hand. I hope you can believe it--because it is true. The enemy of your soul is telling you lies. Do you rebuke him in Jesus' name. He must flee if you do that. He isn't omniscient so he can only guess at your thoughts, but if you address the evil one aloud, he must go. Tell him to never return--again, in Jesus name. He won't return and then you can continue to rebuild your life as the Holy Spirit rebuilds your faith. Jesus observed that some demons only go away through fasting and prayer. (Matthew 17:21 and Mark 9:29) Your body will become less demanding and your spirit will soar.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2019
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  19. batheltler01

    batheltler01 New Member

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    Unfortunately, everything I've experienced has shown the exact opposite. I've seen and experienced an un-renewal in my mind and heart. A complete evaporation of my faith. A knowledge of the truth but not a heart that believes or desires. I truly hope that this is simply deep spiritual warfare, but from the symptoms of my heart and the deep, sudden change in my spiritual state and state of faith, I can't help but conclude, from my state, that salvation is loseble and that it has occurred. My will to care is failing. I don't know how to believe anymore. I cannot spend time in the word or time in prayer. Sin urges are overwhelming and I am not able to combat sin in the Spirit any longer. I don't see what else I can do in my flesh apart from the Spirit's empowerment. Perhaps nothing can pluck us out of his hand, but we can leave, even if inadvertently.
     
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    @batheltler01,

    I think that your aim here is to set yourself forth as an example of one who has fallen away, in order to combat the doctrine that we cannot fall away if we have a living and saving faith in Jesus Christ.

    I did this at one time in my life. I thought that OSAS was so deplorable that I was willing to lose my salvation (in the public sense, although not in reality) in order to prove that it was false.

    Fact of the matter is, that if your conversion was genuine, your salvation is secure no matter what you are feeling.

    If you end up actually departing from the Lord in a concise way so that there is a clear and evident separation from the faith spoken of in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; if you depart from the faith entirely; then I would say that you never were a true believer but maybe only thought you were.

    But from your testimony I would say that it seems to me that you have been a genuine believer.

    Therefore I would say that you are simply experiencing a season of being in the wilderness as a believer.
     
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