What triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord ?

[Douggg]

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

Context is the second coming.

First let me say that you did a nice job in color coding the text and your comments.

Those passages are not a second coming reference, but a reference to what Jesus said in John 14:2-4 for the purpose of taking Christians to heaven.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. ( the way to heaven)

The way to heaven is by believing upon the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified, buried, and rose again on the third day.

 

[Douggg]

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


Obviously this is the same context and so the reference to the day of the Lord here is the second coming when the resurrection and rapture take place and the wrath of God.

The sudden destruction coming on them saying peace and safety at the time is that the great tribulation will soon begin.
During the great tribulation, God's wrath will be poured out in the vials. And also Satan will be taking out his wrath on the inhabiters of the earth because he will know that his time is short.

You are placing the rapture/resurrection on the day that Jesus returns. But Jesus says no man knows the day, nor hour.

 

[ewq1938]

First let me say that you did a nice job in color coding the text and your comments.

Thank you. Unfortunately the best wording and colored/highlighted is not enough to convince people it is correct no matter how correct it may be.

Those passages are not a second coming reference, but a reference to what Jesus said in John 14:2-4 for the purpose of taking Christians to heaven.

There are 3 second coming references. You deny this because you believe in two comings, one at the rapture and a final one for wrath etc.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. ( the way to heaven)

The way to heaven is by believing upon the Lord Jesus Christ and Him crucified and rose on the third day.

There is nothing there about taking anyone to heaven. He clearly speaks of returning to Earth (I will come again) and says, "where I am, there ye may be also". Where he is would be Earth so where we would be would be Earth as well.

 

[ewq1938]

The sudden destruction coming on them saying peace and safety at the time is that the great tribulation will soon begin.

No, it speaks of the end of the GT. Peace and safety is the GT for them. Sudden destruction is when the GT ends and Christ returns in the wrath of God.

During the great tribulation, God's wrath will be poured out in the vials.

Nope. They are poured after the GT is over.

And also Satan will be taking out his wrath on the inhabiters of the earth because he will know that his time is short.

You are placing the rapture/resurrection on the day that Jesus returns. But Jesus says no man knows the day, nor hour.

He said that before the NT was written and before visions such as Revelation and before his ascension back to heaven. He knows when it is now, and has given signs that will tell us when it is very near.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

[Douggg]

There is nothing there about taking anyone to heaven. He clearly speaks of returning to Earth (I will come again) and says, "where I am, there ye may be also". Where he is would be Earth so where we would be would be Earth as well.

No, it is not speaking about returning to earth in John 14:2-4. When Jesus returns to earth, He will stand on the Mt. of Olives in Zechariah 14.

In verses 2-4, Jesus says He is going to heaven. And when he comes to receive Christians to Himself, it will be to the place that He said He was going to - heaven.

2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
4 And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. ( the way to heaven)

 

[Douggg]

No, it speaks of the end of the GT. Peace and safety is the GT for them. Sudden destruction is when the GT ends and Christ returns in the wrath of God.

No one is going to be saying peace and safety during the great tribulation.

When Jesus returns, that day will be when the wrath of the Lamb takes place on the wicked who will have been martyring and persecuting the saints during the great tribulation.

Jesus returns to end the great tribulation.

Nope. They are poured after the GT is over.

There are 7 vials of God's wrath. Those are spread out during the great tribulation, evident by the descriptions in Revelation 16.

He said that before the NT was written and before visions such as Revelation and before his ascension back to heaven. He knows when it is now, and has given signs that will tell us when it is very near.

Jesus said that we should know the season, but not the day nor hour. The season is given by the parable of the fig tree generation. As that generation is now shortly closing, so too is the nearest of the rapture/resurrection.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, I have no wish to cause offence, please take my comments as brotherly advice, as I'm sure its better for you to ne admonished my me, than for God to ask you why you messed around with the Book of Revelation.

keras, I did not mean to imply that you are the only one with the innuendo remark. This forum is saturated with innuendo remarks.

I am saying to everyone - to stop with the innuendo's and instead present your rationale and reasoning in instances when you disagree with another poster's position.

 

[Davidpt]

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days[BEGIN] (or Trump 2 the IMPACT) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light(Via Trump 4), and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken(Satan is CAST DOWN at the midpoint):

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Point out which word means 'begin' in this verse so I can check Strong's to see if you are correct or not.

Clearly, you added to the text by placing 'begin' in the text unless you can prove from the Greek that 'begin' is meant.

This is what the text says---Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened

Not this instead---Immediately after the tribulation of those days begin shall the sun be darkened

 

[ScottA]

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF LORD ?

The Lamb of God being slain before the foundation of the world.

Thus, all things have been made manifest, as revelation and evidence before the Judgement.

 

[dismas]

I am... locked into what the Bible Scripture ACTUALLY SAYS AS WRITTEN, so you don't do well by saying keeping to God's Word as written is doing falseness.

ONLY... the latter half of the Daniel 9:27 "one week" represents the time of "great tribulation", and Jesus Himself revealed that in Matthew 24, a chapter the deceived who trust in men's false Pre-trib Rapture who falsely claim is not written for Christ's Church. And here is how we KNOW the "great tribulation" is ONLY about the latter half of the "one week"...

Dan 9:27
27 The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."
New Living Translation

After the first HALF of the "one week" (7 years), that false one will end the daily sacrifices and offerings, and instead will place the "abomination that maketh desolate" of Daniel 11:31, and which Jesus warned with quoting in Matthew 24:15.

That MEANS the Matthew 24:15 verse represents the HALF POINT of Daniel's symbolic "one week"...

Matt 24:15-21
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

Then all those above events that happen right after verse 15 represent the "great tribulation" timing. That means that IS... the LATTER HALF of the Daniel 9:27 "one week", and it equals 1260 days simply because HALF of the "one week", or 7 years or 2520 days... means 1260 days, the SAME timing that God's "two witnesses" will be given to prophesy in Jerusalem against the beast as written in Revelation 11!

This is SO... EASY... even a little child can grasp it!

lol
You make it out like I haven't heard this a million times before. I have heard it - and disagree.

The 'abomination of desolation' is in the 'holy place' let the reader understand.

The reader is supposed to understand something hidden here! The current holy place is the Christian church not a literal temple. This is the first abomination event and is Dan 9:26, the 'people of the prince to come destroy the city and sanctuary.'

That is why at Rev 17:10, there is the 'one that is' Mystery Babylon (which is to say, #6 head, our current Babylon system). The current Babylon has to be destroyed to bring in the 7th head of Babylon. Once the current Babylon is gone (defiled by an abomination) then the #7 head can come and confirm the covenant and then break that covenant which would give us our 2nd abomination at the 7th Trumpet.

At the 7th Trumpet (the 2nd abomination), this is probably a literal temple.

It is Daniel 9:26 and Daniel 9:27.

And here would be where you say, but 9:26 was in 70AD! and I would respond, If you want to willfully misunderstand it, I can't stop you.

Dan 8's 2300 days means:

150 (5 months) + 396.5 (365.25 + 30 + 1 + hour) + 1260 + 3.5 + [490] (70 weeks) = 2300 days

That is 5 months of locusts (Rev 9:5) + 'hour, day, month, year' (Rev 9:15) + 1260 days of 2 witnesses (Rev 11:3) + 3.5 (Rev 11:11) + an implied 70 weeks to 'finish the transgression' = 2300 days

The 2nd section is cut short from 396.5 to 30 days (Matt 24:22) because the locusts cut off the daily grain & wine offerings at the start of the 6th Trumpet (Joel 1:9) (thus 30 days + 1260 days of the 2 witnesses = 1290 days). The abomination at the 7th Trumpet goes from 42 months to 70 weeks.

At the 1st abomination event, it is broken on a Feast of Tabernacles (Tishri 15) (the middle of the 7) ('7' was the original name of the month 'Tishri').

 

[Ronald D Milam]

So you are claiming to be a prophet ?

You call it what you will, I do not do tags. My calling is unto understanding Prophecy, but I had a vision in 1986 where I was running with small kids from some very evil dudes, as I hid behind a bush by a house, a BOOMING voice from the heavens stated that "The Man of Sin is Here" short and sweet, but a very, very important gift from God unto me. Then a bit later, maybe a year, I was shown something I knew was meant to reaffirm the first vision was true., as young Christians sometimes get off tracked easily. In saw Jimmy Swaggart in a HUGE AUDITORIUM, preaching to maybe 10 people, within 2 weeks he had fallen from grace because of his seeing a prostitute in a hotel room. I was like, Wow, my first ever vision was not just in my head. From tat point on I knew my calling overall was preaching with a bent toward prophecy.

Now, what are the Gifts of the Spirit?

1 Cor. 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

So, we all have gifts given unto us by God. We are not in Old Testament times where God called single men or a few men out at times, God has given us the Holy Spirit and each person special gifts, I hope you do not deny God gives His church these gifts.

So, you are referring to the sixth seal event ?

Of course. Which is a Prophetic Utterance, not a real time event. The Fourth Trump is when the Joel 2:31 AND 6th Seal Prophesy's both come to pass.

I have shown a timeline. You have not.

Just adding the various timeframes values together mathematically is not sufficient. The order that timeframes take place relevant to each other is necessary. i.e. a timeline is necessary.

Try reading, its there.

 

[Davy]

lol
You make it out like I haven't heard this a million times before. I have heard it - and disagree.

Then you might want to think about your education maybe having some twists in it. And remember per Apostle Peter, God's Word is of no 'private interpretation'. But it does require God's help by The Holy Spirit to properly understand it. That means Atheists and the unbelieving do not count in that.

The 'abomination of desolation' is in the 'holy place' let the reader understand.

The reader is supposed to understand something hidden here! The current holy place is the Christian church not a literal temple. This is the first abomination event and is Dan 9:26, the 'people of the prince to come destroy the city and sanctuary.'

Nope! The "temple of God" that Apostle Paul mentioned in 2 Thess.2:3-4 which the "man of sin" is coming to sit in and play God, is about a literal... stone... temple... built in Jerusalem for the end. The reason why Paul used that "temple of God" phrase was because he was pointing to the 'traditional' stone temple of the Jews in Jerusalem, something he was well familiar with in his day.

Furthermore, those who don't properly understand the Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31 events reveal their education had to have had twists in it. Reason is because that prophecy involves a STANDING STONE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM for that "abomination that maketh desolate", and for those sacrifices to end.

Now it was about 200 years AFTER... Antiochus had already been dead when Lord Jesus quoted from that Daniel 11:31 verse about the "abomination of desolation" event, which means He placed that event for the very END of this world.

And per the Matthew 24:15-29 Scripture, He linked the future "great tribulation" event with it.

 

[ewq1938]

No one is going to be saying peace and safety during the great tribulation.

Scripture literally says they do.


1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Peace and safety is said before the second coming which brings wrath.

When Jesus returns, that day will be when the wrath of the Lamb takes place on the wicked who will have been martyring and persecuting the saints during the great tribulation.

Jesus returns to end the great tribulation.

Which proves the GT is peace and safety for the unsaved.

There are 7 vials of God's wrath. Those are spread out during the great tribulation, evident by the descriptions in Revelation 16.

No, those come with Christ, "When Jesus returns, that day will be when the wrath of the Lamb takes place". That is when the vials of God wrath start, not within the previous 42 months.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Point out which word means 'begin' in this verse so I can check Strong's to see if you are correct or not.

When dealing with prophecy where you will never get full throated dissertations on the prophesy being spoken about, but only glimpses, you have to search deeper for these understanding, God so desires that, that is why Jesus told the disciples he spoke unto them in parables, so only they could hear and see, and the world would not grasp it. Likewise, why via all the prophesies could no one understand when the Messiah was going to be born? God gives glimpses, like he's born in Bethlehem, but God also stated he would come out of Egypt, we now understand both, but it confused the Pharisees and scribes no doubt. But if they had thought it through, like I am demonstrating needs to be done with prophesy, they would have understood, he has to be born of a virgin, in Bethlehem, thus in order to come out of Egypt he must move there sometime after his birth then return. The three wise men figured it out, the old man in the temple saw Jesus and knew who he was !!

So, instead of clinging to ONE WORD that has been translated from Greek, to Latin to English, why not research the DOTL and understand how long God's wrath lasts? The Sun and Moon goes dark at the fourth Trumpet Judgment, which is the middle trumpet !! So, three trumpets are left (3 woes). The 6th Seal is not a real time event, it is a prophecy just like Joel 2:31, both come to pass at the fourth trump.

Joel 2 shows the DOTL, its not a one day event, its the earth being judged by fire, Jesus returns at the 7th Vial, which emits from the 7th Trump, and the 3rd woe = All 7 Vials.

Clearly, you added to the text by placing 'begin' in the text unless you can prove from the Greek that 'begin' is meant.

Not so, you not understanding that it does not say Jesus will show up IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation does not say after they end either. It is speaking of the Sun & Moon going dark after the Asteroid hits and brings God's Wrath. Why would the Sun and Moon go dark AFTER the Wrath of God, it makes no sense.

Yes, immediately after the asteroid strike that begins the troubles, now do what I suggested, use common sense research. Rev. 8 brings God's Wrath, The Fourth Trump brings bring the Sun and Moon going dim, there are three Trumps left, it does not take scientific genius to understand that the sun and moon can't not go dark after the troubles of those days end because there are three more trumps to go. You guys JUMP to conclusions then you get a tunnel vision. God tells me I am wrong all the time, once a man can not hear YOU ARE IN ERROR, he can never learn God's deep truths because God repudiates our ideas all of the time.

This is what the text says---Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened

Not this instead---Immediately after the tribulation of those days begin shall the sun be darkened

You completely dodged my Zech. 14:1-2 points that that is the DOTL and then ONE VERSE LATER in Zechariah 14:3-4 its Jesus returning and fighting Israel's foes.

Jesus returns in Matt. 24:30 after the Beasts 1260 day rule, the Sun and Moon goes dark right after the tribulation starts, read Rev. 8, its the Fourth Trump, not the 7th Trump. As a matter of fact the5th Woe lasts for 5 months. So, you were in error, after the Fourth Trump we see the 5th Trump lasts 5 months, and we still have the 6th Trump and 7th Trump yet to go.

 

[covenantee]

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Point out which word means 'begin' in this verse so I can check Strong's to see if you are correct or not.

Clearly, you added to the text by placing 'begin' in the text unless you can prove from the Greek that 'begin' is meant.

This is what the text says---Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened

Not this instead---Immediately after the tribulation of those days begin shall the sun be darkened

Obvious typical dispensational mutilation of the inspired text in an attempt to enforce conformity with futurism's ideologies of fantasy and fallacy.

There is no "begin" in the text, in Hebrew or Greek or Aramaic or Latin or English or any other tongue.

 

[Douggg]

Which proves the GT is peace and safety for the unsaved.

No, the great tribulation will be a time of testing for all upon the earth. No one is going to be saying "peace and safety" during that time.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


The scroll that Jesus removed the seals showed a red horse, a black horse, and a pale horse. Which depict the conditions in the world at that time, following the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist.

The saying peace and safety will be during the false messianic age of the Antichrist.

 

[Douggg]

You call it what you will, I do not do tags. My calling is unto understanding Prophecy, but I had a vision in 1986 where I was running with small kids from some very evil dudes, as I hid behind a bush by a house, a BOOMING voice from the heavens stated that "The Man of Sin is Here" short and sweet, but a very, very important gift from God unto me. Then a bit later, maybe a year, I was shown something I knew was meant to reaffirm the first vision was true., as young Christians sometimes get off tracked easily. In saw Jimmy Swaggart in a HUGE AUDITORIUM, preaching to maybe 10 people, within 2 weeks he had fallen from grace because of his seeing a prostitute in a hotel room. I was like, Wow, my first ever vision was not just in my head. From tat point on I knew my calling overall was preaching with a bent toward prophecy.

I don't get it. How did the vision you had, have anything to do with Jimmy Swaggart ?

Try reading, its there.

You did not make timeline chart. Take some time and effort to learn how to use a graphics program to make a timeline chart(s) of events. Or you can do what I suggested in my post #27.

 

[Douggg]

It is a PROPHETIC UTTERANCE by Jesus

How is the content of Revelation 6:12-17 what you are calling "a PROPHETIC UTTERANCE" ? John wrote what he saw.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

I don't get it. How did the vision you had, have anything to do with Jimmy Swaggart ?

The 2nd Vision was about Jimmy Swaggart preaching in a very large auditorium, but he only had like 10 people there listening, so God was showing me he was about to lose his audience or that his influence would wane. Then two weeks later h stepped aside at his ministry, he was never a world wide figure again imho, his influence waned, he used to be on CNN and other shows, he lost viewership etc. etc.

So, why did Gid show me that? My point was, as soon as I saw that vision, I understood my other vision was 100 percent true, not just me thinking I saw something. So, from that point on I knew 100 % that the coming Anti-Christ was already alive and in the world. So, it was TWO VISIONS, I said one was a year or so later (maybe 9 months)

You did not make timeline chart. Take some time and effort to learn how to use a graphics program to make a timeline chart(s) of events. Or you can do what I suggested in my post #27.

As long as you can read English I do not have to simplify it.

How is the content of Revelation 6:12-17 what you are calling "a PROPHETIC UTTERANCE" ? John wrote what he saw.

And Joel no doubt wrote what he saw........as I stated, the Angels SOUNDED the Trump and the Vials were POURED OUT. Here John saw VISIONS, which pointed to future events. Until you can grasp that a Seal SEALS UP the message you will not be able to grasp it.

 

[ewq1938]

No, the great tribulation will be a time of testing for all upon the earth. No one is going to be saying "peace and safety" during that time.

Scripture disagrees. I have already shown that for those serving the beast, the trib will be peace and safety which ends when Christ returns.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


The scroll that Jesus removed the seals showed a red horse, a black horse, and a pale horse. Which depict the conditions in the world at that time, following the transgression of desolation act by the Antichrist.

The saying peace and safety will be during the false messianic age of the Antichrist.

Which is the GT, exactly as I have shown from scripture.

Peace and safety THEN sudden destruction is clearly the GT then the second coming.