What triggers the beginning of the Day of the Lord ?

[Douggg]

In 1Thessalonians5, the Day of the Lord begins suddenly, like a thief in the night, unexpected, at a time when the world is saying peace and safety.

In 2Thesslaion2:4, the Day of the Lord begins when the son of perdition goes into the temple sits and claims to have achieved God-hood. The transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13-14.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF LORD ?

It will be when the Antichrist, in his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, unexpectedly and without warning stops the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, and goes into the temple, to be built following the Gog/Magog event - and sits in the Holy of Holies chamber - reserved for God - and claims himself to have achieved God-hood.

It will end his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, as he reveals himself to be the "man of sin" and not the messiah as the Jews will have initially thought.

Don't confuse the transgression of desolation act with the abomination of desolation statue image, which happens later - after the person is killed and comes back to life to become the beast-king of Revelation 13.

 

[Davidpt]

In 1Thessalonians5, the Day of the Lord begins suddenly, like a thief in the night, unexpected, at a time when the world is saying peace and safety.

In 2Thesslaion2:4, the Day of the Lord begins when the son of perdition goes into the temple sits and claims to have achieved God-hood. The transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13-14.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF LORD ?

It will be when the Antichrist, in his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, unexpectedly and without warning stops the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, and goes into the temple, to be built following the Gog/Magog event - and sits in the Holy of Holies chamber - reserved for God - and claims himself to have achieved God-hood.

It will end his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, as he reveals himself to be the "man of sin" and not the messiah as the Jews will have initially thought.

Don't confuse the transgression of desolation act with the abomination of desolation statue image, which happens later - after the person is killed and comes back to life to become the beast-king of Revelation 13.

The thing to get right first is where does it fit in relation to great tribulation? The following makes it undeniably clear to some of us where it fits in relation to that. But what you brought up per 2 Thessalonians 2:4 though, that is meaning during great tribulation, thus does not involve the day of the Lord, as everything I submit below plainly shows.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Now compare with the following.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Even though none of these things are meaning in a literal sense, that is beside the point. The point is, what the following is describing---the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven--fit the following to a T---the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

Seriously, if the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven--that equals light rather than darkness? Of course not. It equals darkness, the same thing Amos 5:18 and verse 20 indicates the day of the Lord is, that it is darkness not light. And that Matthew 24:29 plainly, thus undeniably, informs us that the day of the Lord is immediately after great tribulation, not prior to it, nor during it instead.

And now that we have that straight, it is then a matter of what initially triggers the day of the Lord after great tribulation?

This for one, meaning the verse below, where it should be plainly obvious to everyone that it is not meaning before or during great trib, thus this passage below agreeing with Matthew 24:29 that the day of the Lord follows great tribulation.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Which then is meaning this in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


At this point in Matthew 24, great tribulation is already in the past, since it would be ludicrous to apply this to the beginning of great tribulation rather than the beginning of the day of the Lord.

We also need to factor in the following per 1 Thessalonians 5.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


Here is what I propose.

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


This is when they are saying Peace and safety.

But then the following happens soon after.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

And look what verse 18 is involving---and thy wrath is come---exactly what the day of the Lord is involving, His wrath. Then look how this chapter ends--and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail .


Compare that with this in Revelation 16.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great .
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven , every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

 

[Keraz]

The great and terrible Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, will be triggered by Iran attempting to nuke Israel. Psalms 7:12-16 puts it very well. The crazy mullahs of Iran will try to do what they have for years said they would; Wipe Israel off the map.
But at the moment of launching their nuke missiles, the Lord will send a powerful Electro Magnetic Pulse from the sun. It will cause the weapons to explode and destroy them all. Jeremiah 49:35-37

But the following mass ejected from the sun, will affect all the world and set the scene for all the end time things to take place.

 

[Douggg]

The thing to get right first is where does it fit in relation to great tribulation? The following makes it undeniably clear to some of us where it fits in relation to that. But what you brought up per 2 Thessalonians 2:4 though, that is meaning during great tribulation, thus does not involve the day of the Lord, as everything I submit below plainly shows.

Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
Amos 5:20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

Now compare with the following.

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Even though none of these things are meaning in a literal sense, that is beside the point. The point is, what the following is describing---the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven--fit the following to a T---the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

Seriously, if the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven--that equals light rather than darkness? Of course not. It equals darkness, the same thing Amos 5:18 and verse 20 indicates the day of the Lord is, that it is darkness not light. And that Matthew 24:29 plainly, thus undeniably, informs us that the day of the Lord is immediately after great tribulation, not prior to it, nor during it instead.

And now that we have that straight, it is then a matter of what initially triggers the day of the Lord after great tribulation?

This for one, meaning the verse below, where it should be plainly obvious to everyone that it is not meaning before or during great trib, thus this passage below agreeing with Matthew 24:29 that the day of the Lord follows great tribulation.

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.


Which then is meaning this in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.


At this point in Matthew 24, great tribulation is already in the past, since it would be ludicrous to apply this to the beginning of great tribulation rather than the beginning of the day of the Lord.

We also need to factor in the following per 1 Thessalonians 5.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


Here is what I propose.

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


This is when they are saying Peace and safety.

But then the following happens soon after.

Revelation 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

And look what verse 18 is involving---and thy wrath is come---exactly what the day of the Lord is involving, His wrath. Then look how this chapter ends--and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail .


Compare that with this in Revelation 16.

Revelation 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great .
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven , every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Davidpt, I understand the content of your post.

My topic question for this thread deals specifically with the beginning of the Day of the Lord, not the extent of the Day of the Lord - which lasts for eternity.

On my rapture view chart, I do show that extent of the Day of the Lord, regarding the things you were pointing out in your post.

 

[Timtofly]

In 1Thessalonians5, the Day of the Lord begins suddenly, like a thief in the night, unexpected, at a time when the world is saying peace and safety.

In 2Thesslaion2:4, the Day of the Lord begins when the son of perdition goes into the temple sits and claims to have achieved God-hood. The transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13-14.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF LORD ?

God decides when the Day of the Lord starts.

The church being obedient would shorten any pain caused by the coming of the Day of the Lord.

"And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

 

[Davidpt]

Davidpt, I understand the content of your post.

My topic question for this thread deals specifically with the beginning of the Day of the Lord, not the extent of the Day of the Lord - which lasts for eternity.

On my rapture view chart, I do show that extent of the Day of the Lord, regarding the things you were pointing out in your post.




View attachment 43630

Douggg, first of all, and I have been over this with you before on another board, your Anytime Rapture is nothing but a Pretrib rapture with another name. Call it what it is then, Pretrib. You can't have it both ways. Are you perhaps ashamed to be labeled Pretrib, so, in your mind, you came up with another label, except in reality, you're still the same thing you are not wanting to be labeled as, A pretribber?

Your chart clearly shows that it is a Pretrib rapture the fact you have it taking place before you have the beginning of great trib taking place. That equals Pretrib. One would have to lack common sense altogether to not know that any proposed rapture that precedes great tribulation, no matter what one might want to call that view, whether it be Anytime Rapture, or Midtrib Rapture, it is still Pretrib. 'Pre' obviously means prior to something. What is your Anytime Rapture prior to? Is it not prior to the beginning of great tribulation? There you go then, Anytime Rapture equals Pretrib.


If you can't even be honest about that, that your Anytime Rapture is actually Pretrib with another name, what should that tell us about you as a person in general? That you're not trying to deceive the unsuspecting? Or that you are trying to deceive the unsuspecting?

On another note, anyone with reading comprehension is not going to agree with your chart, that the day of the Lord is paralleling great tribulation, when Matthew 24:29, for one, is already proving otherwise. What is that verse involving? It is involving very dark, no light at all. What is the day of Lord involving per Amos 5:18 and verse 20? It is involving very dark, no light at all. There you go then. It can't get any plainer than this, the day of the Lord is after great tribulation.

And look what else your chart would have us believe. That the day of the Lord, though it has a beginning, it has no ending. As if the following can fit all of eternity---the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light(Amos 5:18)

Then you act as if I never even bothered to mention when the beginning of the day of the Lord is and what triggers the beginning of it. When I clearly did.

 

[Zao is life]

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF LORD ?

It will be when the Antichrist, in his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, unexpectedly and without warning stops the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, and goes into the temple, to be built following the Gog/Magog event - and sits in the Holy of Holies chamber - reserved for God - and claims himself to have achieved God-hood.

It will end his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, as he reveals himself to be the "man of sin" and not the messiah as the Jews will have initially thought.

Where does it say in the New Testament that animal sacrifices for sins offered in a building in Jerusalem will be considered the temple of God?

Nowhere. The idea is fantasy.

Where does it say in the Bible that the man of sin will be acknowledged by the Jews as their Messiah?

Nowhere. It's another fantasy.

Don't confuse the transgression of desolation act with the abomination of desolation statue image, which happens later - after the person is killed and comes back to life to become the beast-king of Revelation 13.

Where in the Bible does it say the above?

Nowhere.

More fantasy, IMO.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello

Perhaps the trigger will be something as simple as Israel trying to rebuild the temple in our near future, but not having the means to complete the task quickly without stoppages that then gives time for the gentile kings to gather near Jerusalem to put pressure on Israel to desist progressing the building of the Temple..

 

[Zao is life]

Very good observation below, IMO:

We also need to factor in the following per 1 Thessalonians 5.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Here is what I propose.

Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

This is when they are saying Peace and safety.

I never thought about that before.

 

[CadyandZoe]

In 1Thessalonians5, the Day of the Lord begins suddenly, like a thief in the night, unexpected, at a time when the world is saying peace and safety.

In 2Thesslaion2:4, the Day of the Lord begins when the son of perdition goes into the temple sits and claims to have achieved God-hood. The transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13-14.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF LORD ?

It will be when the Antichrist, in his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, unexpectedly and without warning stops the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, and goes into the temple, to be built following the Gog/Magog event - and sits in the Holy of Holies chamber - reserved for God - and claims himself to have achieved God-hood.

It will end his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, as he reveals himself to be the "man of sin" and not the messiah as the Jews will have initially thought.

Don't confuse the transgression of desolation act with the abomination of desolation statue image, which happens later - after the person is killed and comes back to life to become the beast-king of Revelation 13.

In your view, what get's desolated?

 

[Douggg]

In your view, what get's desolated?

Hi CadyandZoe, what gets desolated will be that the temple will be made desolate of the worship and praise of the One True God by the Jews (the host in Daniel 8:13).

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?

The sanctuary is talking about the temple. The host is talking about the Jews who will be conducting temple related activities and ordinances - until the little horn person (who will be the Antichrist at the time) stops the daily sacrifice and goes into the temple, sits, claiming to have achieve God-hood.

 

[Douggg]

If you can't even be honest about that, that your Anytime Rapture is actually Pretrib with another name, what should that tell us about you as a person in general? That you're not trying to deceive the unsuspecting? Or that you are trying to deceive the unsuspecting?

I am not trying to deceive anyone. The Anytime Rapture view that I came up with is different than the Pretrib rapture view.

The Pretrib rapture view insists that the Rapture takes place before the 70th week begins, i.e before the confirmation of the covenant in Daniel 9:27.... as the Pretib rapture advocates consider the entire 70th week as "tribulation".

The Anytime Rapture view takes into consideration that the Rapture might take place after the 70th week begins , i.e. after the confirmation of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 - but has to take place before the transgression of desolation act.

Here are two charts comparing the Pretrib Rapture View to the Anytime Rapture View.

 

[Douggg]

On another note, anyone with reading comprehension is not going to agree with your chart, that the day of the Lord is paralleling great tribulation, when Matthew 24:29, for one, is already proving otherwise. What is that verse involving? It is involving very dark, no light at all. What is the day of Lord involving per Amos 5:18 and verse 20? It is involving very dark, no light at all. There you go then. It can't get any plainer than this, the day of the Lord is after great tribulation.

Amos 5:18 is not talking about physical darkness, but a time of trouble.

Amos 5 is talking about the Jews back at the time of Amos, and the Jews in the end times when the day of the Lord begins.

The Jews of today, in the end times, are desiring that the day of Lord come because it will be peace on earth, and a time of blessings - i.e. the messianic age.

But what God is telling them in verses 18-20, that it is not going to turn out the way they are hoping for.

That their messiah is going going to be like a serpent that bites them.

Their thought-to-be messiah, the Antichrist, is going to trigger the day of the Lord beginning, which will be a time of darkness, a time of trouble, as indicated in verse 19.

The Antichrist will trigger the day of the Lord beginning by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood

18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

 

[Davidpt]

Amos 5:18 is not talking about physical darkness, but a time of trouble.

Amos 5 is talking about the Jews back at the time of Amos, and the Jews in the end times when the day of the Lord begins.

The Jews of today, in the end times, are desiring that the day of Lord come because it will be peace on earth, and a time of blessings - i.e. the messianic age.

But what God is telling them in verses 18-20, that it is not going to turn out the way they are hoping for.

That their messiah is going going to be like a serpent that bites them.

Their thought-to-be messiah, the Antichrist, is going to trigger the day of the Lord beginning, which will be a time of darkness, a time of trouble, as indicated in verse 19.

The Antichrist will trigger the day of the Lord beginning by going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood

18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.

20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?

I'm not taking Amos 5 to be literally involving physical darkness to begin with. I'm just pointing out that if everything recorded in Matthew 24:29 were to happen in a literal sense, what would that add up to? Exactly what Amos 5 is describing, darkness, very dark, no light at all. Of course though, what is recorded in Matthew 24:29 is not meaning in the literal sense, but that is beside the point. Yet it matches to a T what Amos 5 is describing the day of the Lord to be involving, darkness, in this case. And that Matthew 24:29 informs us that the day of the Lord is immediately after great tribulation. Therefore, the day of Lord can't be meaning prior to great tribulation nor during it if it is immediately after it according to what Jesus said in Matthew 24:29.

 

[dismas]

In 1Thessalonians5, the Day of the Lord begins suddenly, like a thief in the night, unexpected, at a time when the world is saying peace and safety.

In 2Thesslaion2:4, the Day of the Lord begins when the son of perdition goes into the temple sits and claims to have achieved God-hood. The transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13-14.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF LORD ?

It will be when the Antichrist, in his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, unexpectedly and without warning stops the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, and goes into the temple, to be built following the Gog/Magog event - and sits in the Holy of Holies chamber - reserved for God - and claims himself to have achieved God-hood.

It will end his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, as he reveals himself to be the "man of sin" and not the messiah as the Jews will have initially thought.

Don't confuse the transgression of desolation act with the abomination of desolation statue image, which happens later - after the person is killed and comes back to life to become the beast-king of Revelation 13.

It is the Gog attack that triggers the 'day of the Lord'. When Gog attacks, then God's wrath begins: Ezekiel 38:18 = start of the Trumpets and later at the start of the bowls of wrath.

Gog is the 'angel/ prince of Persia'. Gog is the 'chief prince of Meshach and Tubal'. The term 'chief prince' is used for angels -see Dan 10:12-21.

First comes the 'prince (angel) of Persia, then the prince (angel) of Greece will come' (Dan 10:20).

The 'angel of Greece' is the king of Tyre (Ezek 28:14) aka 'Lucifer' from Isa 14. The 'angel of Tyre' is the 'dragon' (angel) spoken of in Rev 12.

Gog (the angel / prince of Persia) is attacking our current Babylon (the 'one that is' which is to say #6 from Rev 17:10).

The 'locusts' of the 1st woe are Gog's locusts = the 'people of the prince to come'. They bring the #7 king (the angel/ prince of Greece) to power. Please see Joel 3:4-6. These 'locusts' cut off the daily bread and wine offerings (Joel 1:9) at the start of the 6th Trumpet.

Rev 9:13-21 is the destruction of Gog. The covenant of Dan 9:27 begins after this destruction of Gog. It is 'Lucifer'/ king of Tyre that is confirming the covenant. Then the 2 witnesses during which is the rule of the King of Tyre, then the start of the 7th Trumpet. Lucifer calls himself God, Michael kills him (Rev 12). The 'dragon' (Lucifer) then gives his throne to the mortally head wounded individual ruling the beast from the sea (Rev 13).

This starts the bowls of wrath & Armageddon which destroys Israel and sends the woman into the wilderness for 1260 days where God will gather her.

 

[Davy]

Douggg, first of all, and I have been over this with you before on another board, your Anytime Rapture is nothing but a Pretrib rapture with another name. Call it what it is then, Pretrib. You can't have it both ways. Are you perhaps ashamed to be labeled Pretrib, so, in your mind, you came up with another label, except in reality, you're still the same thing you are not wanting to be labeled as, A pretribber?

Your chart clearly shows that it is a Pretrib rapture the fact you have it taking place before you have the beginning of great trib taking place. That equals Pretrib. One would have to lack common sense altogether to not know that any proposed rapture that precedes great tribulation, no matter what one might want to call that view, whether it be Anytime Rapture, or Midtrib Rapture, it is still Pretrib. 'Pre' obviously means prior to something. What is your Anytime Rapture prior to? Is it not prior to the beginning of great tribulation? There you go then, Anytime Rapture equals Pretrib.


If you can't even be honest about that, that your Anytime Rapture is actually Pretrib with another name, what should that tell us about you as a person in general? That you're not trying to deceive the unsuspecting? Or that you are trying to deceive the unsuspecting?

On another note, anyone with reading comprehension is not going to agree with your chart, that the day of the Lord is paralleling great tribulation, when Matthew 24:29, for one, is already proving otherwise. What is that verse involving? It is involving very dark, no light at all. What is the day of Lord involving per Amos 5:18 and verse 20? It is involving very dark, no light at all. There you go then. It can't get any plainer than this, the day of the Lord is after great tribulation.

And look what else your chart would have us believe. That the day of the Lord, though it has a beginning, it has no ending. As if the following can fit all of eternity---the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light(Amos 5:18)

Then you act as if I never even bothered to mention when the beginning of the day of the Lord is and what triggers the beginning of it. When I clearly did.

Pretty much what I also surmised with Doug's ideas, i.e., Pre-trib Rapture theory.

I don't know how long ago the Pre-trib school began pushing the idea that the "day of the Lord" is about the "great tribulation" time, but that's one of their false ideas today. It's obvious why they do that, because Christ's future return and gathering of His saints is linked with the "day of the Lord", and Pre-trib tries to move Christ's gathering of His Church back, to prior to the start of the great trib.

 

[Davy]

Rev 9:13-21 is the destruction of Gog. The covenant of Dan 9:27 begins after this destruction of Gog. It is 'Lucifer'/ king of Tyre that is confirming the covenant. Then the 2 witnesses during which is the rule of the King of Tyre, then the start of the 7th Trumpet. Lucifer calls himself God, Michael kills him (Rev 12). The 'dragon' (Lucifer) then gives his throne to the mortally head wounded individual ruling the beast from the sea (Rev 13).

This starts the bowls of wrath & Armageddon which destroys Israel and sends the woman into the wilderness for 1260 days where God will gather her.

Where in the world are you guys (Doug also) getting that erroneous idea that the Gog/Magog battle event of Ezekiel 38 happens PRIOR to the "great tribulation"?

That Ezekiel 38 battle is this same one here...

Zech 14:1-5
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

 

[Douggg]

Where in the world are you guys (Doug also) getting that erroneous idea that the Gog/Magog battle event of Ezekiel 38 happens PRIOR to the "great tribulation"?

That Ezekiel 38 battle is this same one here...

The Zechariah 14 event, at Jesus's return, in Ezekiel 39 is verses 17-20, the Armageddon event.


In Ezekiel 39, the destruction of Gog's army verses 1-6
In Ezekiel 39, then followed by 7 years verses 7-10
In Ezekiel 39, then the Armageddon event verses 17-20
In Ezekiel 39, then Jesus's return to this earth verses 21-29

 

[dismas]

Where in the world are you guys (Doug also) getting that erroneous idea that the Gog/Magog battle event of Ezekiel 38 happens PRIOR to the "great tribulation"?

That Ezekiel 38 battle is this same one here...

Zech 14:1-5
14 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fought in the day of battle.

4 And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with Thee.
KJV

You are locked into the notion that the 2nd half of the '70th week' is the only time of 'great tribulation' which is not true. The 'great tribulation' starts 1st, then the false christ comes.

The 'prince of Persia' (Gog) comes before the 'prince of Greece' (the 'dragon, aka 'Lucifer', aka 'Tyre) in Dan 10.

Matt 24

15So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’a described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. 18And let no one in the field return for his cloak.​

​

19How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! 20Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. 21For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. 22If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be cut short.​

​

23At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible.​

After the 'great tribulation of those days are cut short' THEN the false christ comes who makes the covenant. See it for yourself above.

That is why there are 3 woes: 1st woe is Gog, 2nd woe is the 'hero of the Gog war', the 'dragon, Lucifer, Tyre,' who makes the covenant, 3rd woe is for people who worship the dragon, beast, and FP when the 'dragon' breaks the covenant.

The 'great tribulation' begins at Revelation 7:14 starting at the Trumpets, going through the bowls of wrath.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

In 1Thessalonians5, the Day of the Lord begins suddenly, like a thief in the night, unexpected, at a time when the world is saying peace and safety.

The thief in the night reference is 2000 some odd years before it happens, thus what they put forth they put forth with a vague understanding overall. Yes, some 2000 years later, at the Rapture, the DOTL will be LOCKED IN onto all those who miss the rapture. That is the thief in the night reference, it can not fit the DOTL because that will happen on 1260th day in the middle of the week, it can not happen at the 2nd coming because that comes on day 2520 exactly 1260 days after the DOTL begins and the Beast starts ruling by conquering. So, its not the DOTL per se that begins like a thief, all human eyes will see the Revelation 8 asteroid heading towards the earth.

In 2Thesslaion2:4, the Day of the Lord begins when the son of perdition goes into the temple sits and claims to have achieved God-hood. The transgression of desolation act of Daniel 8:13-14.

This is not true, the AoD comes by way of the False Prophet who places the Beasts i mage in the temple. This happens 30 days before the 1260 middle of the week events at the 1290. When you get to heaven you will scratch your head, this all seems so simple now, the sad thing ole Fisherking tried to tell me this countless times, and I would not heed his points of emphasis.

So WHAT TRIGGERS THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF LORD ?

God's Wrath is pre plane and pre told unto us in many scriptures. In Rev. 8 we see it is one asteroid that is spoken about in four phase. Trump #1 = Fire of the trees. Trump #2 = The Impact. Trump #3 is the Fallout or Wormwood of the fresh waters. Trump #4 is the Sun & Moon diming by 1/3 via all the smoke.

So, an Asteroid triggers the beginning of God's Wrath against mankind.

It will be when the Antichrist, in his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, unexpectedly and without warning stops the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, and goes into the temple, to be built following the Gog/Magog event - and sits in the Holy of Holies chamber - reserved for God - and claims himself to have achieved God-hood.

The A.C. is never accepted as the King of Israel as per their Messiah. Israel joins the E.U. and thus the President of the E.U. will be their President also, because they are in the E.U. in 1900 the President of the USA was not the President of Hawaii, after 1960, the President of the USA was also Hawaii's President because they joined the USA. Its the same thing. John 5:43 was fulfilled in 70 AD, its not about end times.

The Daily that is stopped is Jews worshiping Jesus. Gog and Magog is past by the time the A.C. becomes the Beast. You have mixed it up brother. You can not defile that which has not been cleansed, that means Israel repents before the DOTL falls.

It will end his stage as the King of Israel, thought-to-be messiah by the Jews, as he reveals himself to be the "man of sin" and not the messiah as the Jews will have initially thought.

Don't confuse the transgression of desolation act with the abomination of desolation statue image, which happens later - after the person is killed and comes back to life to become the beast-king of Revelation 13.

You have conflated everything my friend.