1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured What Was Israel Ordained For?

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Davy, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,590
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    And again, I'd ask the same question, is that so?

    But, is giving personal commentary on a man you've never even met appropriate? Isn't this yet one more example of derailing a discussion by making disparaging personal remarks?

    Much love!
     
  2. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,695
    Likes Received:
    858
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yes , they were to be a a Holy Priesthood, a Nation of priests to the world.

    Exodus 19:6 "5 Now if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, you will be My treasured possession out of all the nations—for the whole earth is Mine. 6 And unto Me you shall be a Kingdom of priests and a Holy nation.' These are the words that you are to speak to the Israelies."

    1 Peter 2:9
    "But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light."
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
    Reggie Belafonte and CoreIssue like this.
  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,590
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    No, you are correct, I have not, nor am I planning to at this point. And I'm not saying that is can't have more than one meaning, just that this promised land is a portion of the earth, not the entire earth, as is borne out by many passages, some that don't even use that word, but tell us the same in other ways.

    As you've alluded to, this is not our only discussion, you and I have discussed much. And we have such different ways of seeing things, well, to me it seems like trying to describe blue to someone who sees green.

    Unless one of us dramatically changes their hermeneutic, we're not going to agree on these things.

    But are you wondering if I'm like the ones who killed the prophets?

    Please note . . . this isn't "defending" myself. But I'm asking the question, is this what you are saying?

    Much love!
    Mark
     
  4. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    353
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Perhaps, if the shoe fits, I will let you wear it.

    Shalom
     
  5. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,590
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I'm just realizing, as is so often the case in this sort of thing, you never did answer my objection.

    You asked if I had looked at your webpage list.
    You opined that if a context is wrong, then your theology is flawed.
    You gave an alternative choice of either "God's spiritual promise" or a "logical man made concept". (Actual wording above)
    You ascribed to me the confirmation of a sad truth, even the elect will be deceived.

    But you never answered my objection.

    Such is the way with so many on this, and other forums. I see this so much of the time. Peruse these pages yourself, take note of all the post of these so many 1000's that are non-responsive, just like this one.

    I don't need to characterize this post for anyone to see what is being said. I think that's plain enough.

    But what's not being said is an actual reply. This has been ignored.

    "Abraham was already on the earth, he wouldn't have had to go anywhere. But God called Abram to go to a land (earth, if you will) that God would show him. So I'm thinking that since he had to go somewhere else, it wasn't where he was."

    I can clarify by adding God even told Abram to leave were he was. Leave the planet? No, God led Abram to the Promised Land, He set Abram down in the Land, and told him to walk around, and the places were he walked were his. This, and so much else, speaks to the common understanding that Israel, the promised land, is from the wadi of Egypt to the great river. You can look at a map of Solomon's rule, and if I remember correct, if you use "his sphere of influence", that's the area.


    Much love!
     
  6. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,590
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You will, how nice!

    Jay, why is that necessary?

    Much love!
    Mark
     
  7. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,814
    Likes Received:
    353
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Mark, does the shoe fit you or are you so sensitive that you see what is written is only directed at you and is not a generalised observation on my part. Are my comments all about YOU? I do not believe so, but
    it appears
    that is how you see it.

    You have provided a flawed "logical" argument to justify your response. You then made fun by saying that I am wanting Abraham to leave the planet. You then go on to support my argument that the land promised in Gen.15:17-21, often referred to as the promised land, was the land that King Solomon enjoyed as part of his realm.

    Then because they were rife with idolatrous practices and worship, God removed them and scattered them throughout the whole earth for a period of around 2,000 years, during which time God turned His back, so to speak, towards Israel, after which God said that He will gather them to Himself once more, where they will be living at that time, and redeem them and plant them in fertile soil so that they can grow in the understanding of God as God teachs them about the fundamental foundational truth of Who He is and His Glory.

    At this point in the story of Israel, the Promised Land of Gen.15 is not in view, except some of Abraham's descendants are trying to make it so with little success. An attempt to rebuild the Temple will also be made, but Israel will not have the means or ability to complete that task and will look foolish to the rest of the world. They will also see Jesus shortly after this dealing with the Kings of the World and they will seek out His terms of peace at this time.{Luke. 14:28-32} Shortly after this they will respond stating that they no longer want Satan to be a King over them. {Luke.19:14}

    But this is getting a little too deep perhaps at this present time in the discussion on the OP about what Israel was ordained for.

    It seems to me that you have a focus on the "Promised Land," whereas I have a focus on Israel's future purpose in ministering to people to show them the way into a relationship with God on His terms with the promise that all of the Saints will inherit the whole earth. The earth made righteous that God said that He would show to Abraham at the right time.

    Shalom
     
  8. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    If we understand that the Church is Israel, God ordained Israel to bless the nations with the promise he made to Abraham. Which is what we do, preaching the gospel to the whole would.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  9. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,284
    Likes Received:
    737
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I am well awear of the history of Israel. I repeat my question.
    You are saying that Jesus will call the Jews whether from the 10 extinct tribes or not out of the nations.

    Is this because they are faithful Jews still practising the OT rites, or because they are arabs with a Jewish ancestor or because they are Christian.
     
  10. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,590
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Is this what this is about, you feel I was making fun of you? In my mind I was following the argument where it led when I look at the Scriptures. I apologize if it came across any differently.

    Much love!
    Mark
     
  11. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,995
    Likes Received:
    1,990
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Bible never says that.

    Besides, you do not believe in repentance by free will. You believe it is preordained by God, thus preaching is a waste of effort.
     
  12. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    What does the church do? Does it fulfill the promise to Abraham? Is the church blessing the whole world as God promised his seed would do? How about the State of Israel? Nothing to show for any of the Promise.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  13. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,995
    Likes Received:
    1,990
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    You avoided my point that you addressed in this response.

     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    If the church acts like Israel, it probably is. If the other Israel doesn't, it probably isn't.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  15. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,695
    Likes Received:
    858
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    That is quite a foolish way to determine what scripture is saying, but it explains a lot.
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    Think about the promise to Abraham, and ask yourself, how does the Church (real Israel) fulfill it? It's quite obvious.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  17. tzcho2

    tzcho2 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,695
    Likes Received:
    858
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It it through scripture we know the Truth, not by thinking and deciding for ourselves.
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    You are not evaluating Abraham's promise and seeing the fulfillment in Jesus and the Church.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  19. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,995
    Likes Received:
    1,990
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Now you're pushing replacement theology.
     
  20. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,995
    Likes Received:
    1,990
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Which promise? There was more than one.
     
  21. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    Look at it objectively. Who fulfills the promise to Abraham? The Church (Israel) or secular Israel?
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
Loading...