Whatever Happened To Honesty with The Politics?

[WalterandDebbie]

Whatever Happened To Honesty with The Politics ?
Could the reason be as to both parties wanting more power?
How in the world can these 4 factors: 1. Economy, 2. Morals, 3. Terrorism, And 4. War in Iraq to be stopped
Can Clinton or Trump cause the above factors to become better?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2007/10/whatever-happened-to-the-politics-of-003582

 

[StanJ]

I am 62 years old, and for the most part although I've seen some honest politicians, I really never seen honest politics! It's filled with equivocation and deflection despite the fact that many politicians will say 'let me be clear' or 'I say this unequivocally'.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

http://biblehub.com/1_timothy/2-1.htm

 

[Dcopymope]

Whatever Happened To Honesty with The Politics ?
Could the reason be as to both parties wanting more power?
How in the world can these 4 factors: 1. Economy, 2. Morals, 3. Terrorism, And 4. War in Iraq to be stopped
Can Clinton or Trump cause the above factors to become better?

http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2007/10/whatever-happened-to-the-politics-of-003582

Yeah, what Stan said. I'm only 29 years old, and I have yet to see honesty in politics, especially at the federal level. The last election for Mayor of Detroit was the closest I ever got and probably ever will get to voting, because it at least sounded like Mike Duggan had a real plan, and he actually sounded like he knew what the hell he was talking about. Thankfully, end times prophecy cannot be thwarted regardless of how we vote, because I want this circus show over with, so the Lord can return to curb stomp this world into mush.

 

[StanJ]

Yeah, what Stan said. I'm only 29 years old, and I have yet to see honesty in politics, especially at the federal level. The last election for Mayor of Detroit was the closest I ever got and probably ever will get to voting, because it at least sounded like Mike Duggan had a real plan, and he actually sounded like he knew what the hell he was talking about. Thankfully, end times prophecy cannot be thwarted regardless of how we vote, because I want this circus show over with, so the Lord can return to curb stomp this world into mush.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel.

 

[Dcopymope]

Why don't you tell us how you really feel.

Feel about what? Politics? I believe that there are only two real ways to make change, and that's a complete nonparticipation in the entire system and an armed revolution, neither of which will ever happen. For me to participate in this sham called elections, lots will have to change. For one, said electives cannot have any connections to groups whose purpose is the destruction of the sovereignty of nations, like they are 99% of the time. Beyond this, the Bible makes it very clear the the real power structure behind all governments is spiritual, which is why the further up the pyramid you go, the more obscure it gets as to who is ultimately in control.

 

[StanJ]

Feel about what? Politics? I believe that there are only two real ways to make change, and that's a complete nonparticipation in the entire system and an armed revolution, neither of which will ever happen. For me to participate in this sham called elections, lots will have to change. For one, said electives cannot have any connections to groups whose purpose is the destruction of the sovereignty of nations, like they are 99% of the time. Beyond this, the Bible makes it very clear the the real power structure behind all governments is spiritual, which is why the further up the pyramid you go, the more obscure it gets as to who is ultimately in control.

Well I was just teasing you but as an afterthought read Romans 13:1-3

 

[Dcopymope]

Well I was just teasing you but as an afterthought read Romans 13:1-3

That's a good verse, but here is an even better one.

(Ephesians 6:12) "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Like I said, this is the reason why it is impossible to pinpoint exactly who the all seeing eye is supposed to be at the top of the Pyramid. The power structure only gets more obscure the higher up you go, which shouldn't be the case if the buck only stopped with flesh and blood. Everything has a spirit behind it, even your money.

 

[StanJ]

That's a good verse, but here is an even better one.
Like I said, this is the reason why it is impossible to pinpoint exactly who the all seeing eye is supposed to be at the top of the Pyramid. The power structure only gets more obscure the higher up you go, which shouldn't be the case if the buck only stopped with flesh and blood. Everything has a spirit behind it, even your money.

The Bible doesn't work that way. There's not good, better or best. What I gave you from Paul had to do with government. What you quoted has to do with principalities and powers of darkness, which is indeed the spiritual realm and what we indeed do wrestle against but by its very context, it eliminates governments because they are not of the spiritual realm, otherwise Paul would have said that we wrestle not against flesh and blood.
No I have no intention of getting into conspiracies and who controls the government and all the rest of that stuff because it serves no useful purpose. God's word tells us that he is in control and as such I believe his word and I think you ought to as well.

 

[Dcopymope]

The Bible doesn't work that way. There's not good, better or best. What I gave you from Paul had to do with government. What you quoted has to do with principalities and powers of darkness, which is indeed the spiritual realm and what we indeed do wrestle against but by its very context, it eliminates governments because they are not of the spiritual realm, otherwise Paul would have said that we wrestle not against flesh and blood.
No I have no intention of getting into conspiracies and who controls the government and all the rest of that stuff because it serves no useful purpose. God's word tells us that he is in control and as such I believe his word and I think you ought to as well.

I think the two verses compliment each other very well as to the point I was trying to make, in that elections are a complete waste of time. One cannot address the physical without accounting for the role of the supernatural. When you realize what is actually behind the throne of governments, "God" or not, then you'll realize how much of a joke politics and the idea of so called elected governments really are.

 

[StanJ]

I think the two verses compliment each other very well as to the point I was trying to make, in that elections are a complete waste of time. One cannot address the physical without accounting for the role of the supernatural. When you realize what is actually behind the throne of governments, "God" or not, then you'll realize how much of a joke politics and the idea of so called elected governments really are.

And if that is your point of view then you are totally discounting what Paul has to say in Romans 13:1-3, which in essence means you're not agreeing with God.

 

[Dcopymope]

And if that is your point of view then you are totally discounting what Paul has to say in Romans 13:1-3, which in essence means you're not agreeing with God.

So what is your point? Are you saying that I should participate in the sham? Do you vote? Because that in essence would count as subjecting yourself to authority. I'm pretty sure those "higher powers" God commands us to subject ourselves to doesn't include un-elected private non-governmental organizations who are in themselves fronts for secret societies, that were set up to subvert the very integrity of so called "elected" governments. Lets get this one thing straight, government in itself exists on OUR sufferance, not the other way around. It wouldn't even exist without it sucking us dry of our hard earned money. Government, isn't going to do a damn thing for me and never has. I don't ever hear a word from government unless they want my money. I don't owe my allegiance to any man made system, but to God.

 

[lforrest]

So long as you live in this land you are under the authority of this government. That is true regardless of if you vote or not.

The bible says something to the effect that there can be no law against doing good. I take this to mean God doesn't recognize the authority of government to make laws that prohibit good works.

 

[StanJ]

So what is your point? Are you saying that I should participate in the sham? Do you vote? Because that in essence would count as subjecting yourself to authority. I'm pretty sure those "higher powers" God commands us to subject ourselves to doesn't include un-elected private non-governmental organizations who are in themselves fronts for secret societies, that were set up to subvert the very integrity of so called "elected" governments. Lets get this one thing straight, government in itself exists on OUR sufferance, not the other way around. It wouldn't even exist without it sucking us dry of our hard earned money. Government, isn't going to do a damn thing for me and never has. I don't ever hear a word from government unless they want my money. I don't owe my allegiance to any man made system, but to God.

I made my point. If you're not following Paul's admonition then you're disagreeing with God and if you're disagreeing with God then that's between you and God, I'm just pointing it out.
Yes I vote because it is my duty as a citizen of my country to vote and I vote my conscience. I don't vote with my faith because for the most part I have no idea if the people that are running or Christian or not. I suggest you read Romans 13:4-7 to get your answer as to God's will. It is definitely not telling you to vilify governments, it is telling you to submit to their authority. Let's try to stay on top and cannot deflect to other non-issues.
Your rebellious attitude here is not Christ-like fatally, and is definitely not according to scripture. We're told to submit yourselves one to another and submit ourselves to the governing authority. No where in scripture are we admonished to be anarchistic in nature.

 

[Dcopymope]

I made my point. If you're not following Paul's admonition then you're disagreeing with God and if you're disagreeing with God then that's between you and God, I'm just pointing it out.
Yes I vote because it is my duty as a citizen of my country to vote and I vote my conscience. I don't vote with my faith because for the most part I have no idea if the people that are running or Christian or not. I suggest you read Romans 13:4-7 to get your answer as to God's will. It is definitely not telling you to vilify governments, it is telling you to submit to their authority. Let's try to stay on top and cannot deflect to other non-issues.
Your rebellious attitude here is not Christ-like fatally, and is definitely not according to scripture. We're told to submit yourselves one to another and submit ourselves to the governing authority. No where in scripture are we admonished to be anarchistic in nature.

Who said anything about being an anarchist? I am not an anarchist. Anarchy will get us no where. I'm saying that if I'm going to put my name down on some piece of paper for somebody to rule over me, then there needs to be some law for there entire life bordering on the very personal to be on record for all to see, in fact, the Constitution itself needs to be amended for it. I want to know all of his affiliations, who funds them and where he came from. If I had my way, no one belonging to groups sworn to secrecy, or to some group set up to subvert governments would get far into his campaign in one piece, because their whole life will be picked apart with a fine tooth pick by everyone.

 

[StanJ]

Who said anything about being an anarchist? I am not an anarchist. Anarchy will get us no where. I'm saying that if I'm going to put my name down on some piece of paper for somebody to rule over me, then there needs to be some law for there entire life bordering on the very personal to be on record for all to see, in fact, the Constitution itself needs to be amended for it. I want to know all of his affiliations, who funds them and where he came from. If I had my way, no one belonging to groups sworn to secrecy, or to some group set up to subvert governments would get far into his campaign in one piece, because their whole life will be picked apart with a fine tooth pick by everyone.

It doesn't really matter how many ways you state it, the bottom line is you're not trusting God and that's exactly what Paul is admonishing us to do in Romans 13. If you want to feel good about the people you vote for then there's one way to do that, pray for them on a daily basis.

 

[Dcopymope]

It doesn't really matter how many ways you state it, the bottom line is you're not trusting God and that's exactly what Paul is admonishing us to do in Romans 13. If you want to feel good about the people you vote for then there's one way to do that, pray for them on a daily basis.

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I don't trust anybody but God. Unless the holy spirit descends upon me and tells me to vote for some guy, or some two bit whore like Hillary, then it ain't happening unless I know everything that is necessary to know about them.

 

[StanJ]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. I don't trust anybody but God. Unless the holy spirit descends upon me and tells me to vote for some guy, or some two bit whore like Hillary, then it ain't happening unless I know everything that is necessary to know about them.

How exactly can God tell you anything given your predisposition and bias? Calling Hillary Clinton a whore on a public forum pretty much guarantees how biased you are and NOT how Christ like you are. You sound like a typical redneck Republican to me.

 

[Dcopymope]

How exactly can God tell you anything given your predisposition and bias? Calling Hillary Clinton a whore on a public forum pretty much guarantees how biased you are and NOT how Christ like you are. You sound like a typical redneck Republican to me.

I call a spade a spade. And I don't identify with any party, politician, or 'redneck'.

 

[JPPT1974]

I love politics but it is getting to being very dishonest indeed.