When did Daniel 7:13-14 happen?

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Truth7t7

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God`s purpose is for Israel to rule over the nations of the world. He promised them this future and God will fulfill it.
No place in scripture does it teach a National Ethnic Israel will rule anywhere on earth

Sounds like Dispensationalism's Zionist (Dual Covenant Theology) to me

God has one covenant with man "One" and that's the shed blood upon Calvary, a salvation "Period"
 
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covenantee

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God is saying what He will do in Israel`s future however BUT......BUT be glad....saying this is what He is doing BEFORE the NHNE.

Notice that the wolf, lion etc will not hurt ONLY `in all my holy mountain, ` NOT the whole world. (Isa. 65: 25)

Hi Marilyn,

Isaiah 35:9
No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

How will the lion eat straw like the ox, and the wolf and lamb feed together, and the leopard lie down with the kid...

if no lion or ravenous beast shall be there or go up thereon?
 

Marilyn C

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No place in scripture does it teach a National Ethnic Israel will rule anywhere on earth

Sounds like Dispensationalism's Zionist (Dual Covenant Theology) to me

God has one covenant with man "One" and that's the shed blood upon Calvary, a salvation "Period"

yes one covenant but different inheritance for different groups.

`Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord`s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; ...` (Micah 4: 1)
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn,

Isaiah 35:9
No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

How will the lion eat straw like the ox, and the wolf and lamb feed together, and the leopard lie down with the kid...

if no lion or ravenous beast shall be there or go up thereon?

The glory of the Lord will be over Mount Zion, (His holy hill) & Jerusalem.

`For Zion`s sake I will not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem`s sake I will not rest, until her righteousness goes forth as brightness, and her salvation as a lamp that burns. The Gentiles shall see your righteousness and all kings your glory.` (Isa. 62: 1 & 2)

`And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east. His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.` ((Ez. 43: 2)
 

covenantee

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The glory of the Lord will be over Mount Zion, (His holy hill) & Jerusalem.

`For Zion`s sake I will not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem`s sake I will not rest, until her righteousness goes forth as brightness, and her salvation as a lamp that burns. The Gentiles shall see your righteousness and all kings your glory.` (Isa. 62: 1 & 2)

`And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east. His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory.` ((Ez. 43: 2)

The power of the Gospel can tame and cast out every wild spirit within the heart of man.
 

Truth7t7

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yes one covenant but different inheritance for different groups.

`Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the Lord`s house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; ...` (Micah 4: 1)
Micha 4:1 has no relationship to your claim that a National Ethnic Israel will rule the world, "none"

New Jerusalem will be established on Mount Zion, in the New Heaven and Earth As Seen In Micah cgapter 4, that is repeating Isaiah chapter 2 in parallel teachings, (The Day Of The Lord)

Lifting Up a National Ethnic People "Race"?

Zionist (Dual Covenant Theology) Dispensationalism, John N. Darby 1830's & C.I Scofield Reference Bible 1909

Below, The Eternal Kingdom (After The Day Of The Lord)

Isaiah 2:2-4KJV
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Below, The Eternal Kingdom (After The Day Of The Lord)

Micah 4:1-3KJV
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
3 And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
He was given all authority over heaven and earth, but His Kingdom is presently only spiritual. His earthly kingdom has not yet happened. "All nations and peoples of every language"DO NOT WORSHIP HIM YET. That will come when He returns and rids the planet of unbelievers!
Some Christians think that this is in our future but I believe that the bible shows us that it happened on the day of Jesus accention and it was the same time as Revelation 12:5-10
Rev.12 is a glimpse of both the past and future. It discribes Jesus' birth and there escape to the wilderness. That is what Gabriel told Joseph to do, go to Egypt and remain there - that Herod is trying to kill Jesus. Likely they were there 3 1/2 years and then were told to return. This was historical, but was also prophetic. Many scholars claim that Israel is the woman who will flee into the wilderness when all nations come against her and be protected for 3 1/2 years during the Great Tribualtion. So it has multiple meanings. Still others claim this was a sign in the heavens, an astronomical constelation of Virgo, clothed by the Sun and the Moon at her feet, while the constelation Leo and other planets formed a crown around her head. This constelation appeared Sept. 11 3 BC ( likely His birth) and recently, 9-23-2017, as a sign of His coming. In Genesis we are told the the sun, moon and stars are not only for times and seasons, but are signs as well.
 

Truth7t7

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He was given all authority over heaven and earth, but His Kingdom is presently only spiritual. His earthly kingdom has not yet happened. "All nations and peoples of every language"DO NOT WORSHIP HIM YET. That will come when He returns and rids the planet of unbelievers!

Rev.12 is a glimpse of both the past and future. It discribes Jesus' birth and there escape to the wilderness. That is what Gabriel told Joseph to do, go to Egypt and remain there - that Herod is trying to kill Jesus. Likely they were there 3 1/2 years and then were told to return. This was historical, but was also prophetic. Many scholars claim that Israel is the woman who will flee into the wilderness when all nations come against her and be protected for 3 1/2 years during the Great Tribualtion. So it has multiple meanings. Still others claim this was a sign in the heavens, an astronomical constelation of Virgo, clothed by the Sun and the Moon at her feet, while the constelation Leo and other planets formed a crown around her head. This constelation appeared Sept. 11 3 BC ( likely His birth) and recently, 9-23-2017, as a sign of His coming. In Genesis we are told the the sun, moon and stars are not only for times and seasons, but are signs as well.
The Lords Kingdom Will Never Be Of This World, Or On This Earth As You Believe And Teach

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)


2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Yes God says that He will make a NHNE (Isa. 65: 17, 66: 22) God is telling Israel of the future, but before that God will make Jerusalem a rejoicing. And that is in the millennium. We can see from the context following those scriptures that it is still the old earth.
No, those passages are describing the NHNE. But in a way that people back then could understand. They were not ready yet to grasp the concept of eternity at that time, so that's why it was written in such a way that people could understand.

Look at this passage:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

This passage relates to the day that Christ returns. We know that because in verse 13 it says "in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth". Which promise is that referring to? The promise of Christ's second coming which Peter first referenced in verse 4, again in verse 9, and then yet again in verse 13. That relates the timing of the ushering in of the NHNE to the day Christ returns. Peter clearly knew nothing of this post-return of Christ millennium that you believe in.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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mmmm `For a child shall DIE one hundred years old....` (Isa. 65: 20 b)

You may want to think again.
Isaiah 65:17-25 is clearly about the new heavens and new earth. Only doctrinal bias can cause someone to deny that. We know that Revelation 21:4 clearly indicates that there will be no more death when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in, so we have to keep that in mind when interpreting Isaiah 65:20. Isaiah described the new heavens and new earth and eternity in a way that his readers at the time could understand.

Yes, that verse (Isaiah 65:20) can give the impression that people will die at that time, but that is not the message Isaiah was meaning to convey. He was trying to describe eternity in a way people could understand by showing that even at 100 years old someone would still be considered a child. That's a figurative way of describing eternity. No one will age in eternity. People didn't have any concept of eternity back then like we have in New Testament times, so he wrote to them accordingly. Whereas John, in Revelation 21:1-5, was more straightforward about the new heavens and new earth, making it clear that "no more death" would occur when the NHNE were ushered in.
 

Marilyn C

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No, those passages are describing the NHNE. But in a way that people back then could understand. They were not ready yet to grasp the concept of eternity at that time, so that's why it was written in such a way that people could understand.

Look at this passage:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

This passage relates to the day that Christ returns. We know that because in verse 13 it says "in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth". Which promise is that referring to? The promise of Christ's second coming which Peter first referenced in verse 4, again in verse 9, and then yet again in verse 13. That relates the timing of the ushering in of the NHNE to the day Christ returns. Peter clearly knew nothing of this post-return of Christ millennium that you believe in.

`The Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, IN WHICH the heavens will pass away with a great noise...` (2 Peter 3: 10)

God`s 3 Days..jpg
 

Marilyn C

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Isaiah 65:17-25 is clearly about the new heavens and new earth. Only doctrinal bias can cause someone to deny that. We know that Revelation 21:4 clearly indicates that there will be no more death when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in, so we have to keep that in mind when interpreting Isaiah 65:20. Isaiah described the new heavens and new earth and eternity in a way that his readers at the time could understand.

Yes, that verse (Isaiah 65:20) can give the impression that people will die at that time, but that is not the message Isaiah was meaning to convey. He was trying to describe eternity in a way people could understand by showing that even at 100 years old someone would still be considered a child. That's a figurative way of describing eternity. No one will age in eternity. People didn't have any concept of eternity back then like we have in New Testament times, so he wrote to them accordingly. Whereas John, in Revelation 21:1-5, was more straightforward about the new heavens and new earth, making it clear that "no more death" would occur when the NHNE were ushered in.

God wrote His Word and He is quite capable to write clearly and TRUTHFULLY. It is the Holy Spirit that reveals His word and NOT the natural mind.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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God wrote His Word and He is quite capable to write clearly and TRUTHFULLY.
Did I say otherwise? No, I did not. But, not everything in His word is written clearly. That's why Paul said we need spiritual discernment to understand it (see 1 Corinthians 2:9-16).

It is the Holy Spirit that reveals His word and NOT the natural mind.
Of course. How does this line up with your other comment? First, you seem to be saying that God makes everything clear (i.e. literal and straightforward?) but then you acknowledge rightfully that "the Holy Spirit reveals His word and NOT the natural mind". So, using spiritual discernment, along with looking at other scripture, we can determine that Isaiah was speaking figuratively about the new heavens and new earth in a way that could be understood back then while John very straightforwardly said that there will be no more death when the new heavens and new earth are ushered in. They both wrote about the new heavens and new earth, so we need to interpret each passage in such a way that our interpretation of one doesn't contradict the other.