When did the 2nd temple literally initially cease being the holy place?

[Spiritual Israelite]

The Day Of The Lord Takes Place "Immediately After The Tribulation" Before Your Eyes,

LOL. I never said otherwise. Can you tell me the name of your straw man? But, you have Him returning after the wrong tribulation. He returns after global tribulation that Christians go through, not local tribulation in Judea that relates to God's wrath.

As Your In Denial Of Biblical Truth Presented,

LOL. I deny your false interpretations.

Claiming Jews Will Be Led Captive Into Nations "After" The Tribulation Of Matthew 24:21 100% "False" As The Scripture Below Clearly Proves

Were my questions too difficult for you? Why didn't you answer them? I'll try again.

What do you think, that Jesus will come while they are being taken away captive to all nations before they even arrive on those other nations? Spell this out for me on what your understanding of that is and how long it takes. What is the point of them being taken captive into all nations if they are destroyed while being brought to those other nations or are destroyed shortly after arriving there?

Are you unable to answer these questions? If you want to be taken seriously, then tell me exactly what your understanding is in terms of how the bringing of the Jews captive to all nations and the times of Gentiles fit within the supposed future tribulation of Matthew 24:21.

 

[Truth7t7]

Question for you and @covenantee and @Truth7t7

Jerusalem = How many are spoken of in the Scriptures?

There is a Jerusalem upon this earth, and a New Jerusalem that's eternal, and its not related to a dual prophecy fulfillment

 

[David in NJ]

There is a Jerusalem upon this earth, and a New Jerusalem that's eternal, and its not related to a dual prophecy fulfillment

Pray Read/Study and Pray More and Wait

 

[David in NJ]

Two. Earthly Jerusalem and the new heavenly Jerusalem. Why do you ask? Can you please just get to the point?

I asked you to give another example or two of prophecies that you think have a dual fulfillment. I think that's a reasonable request. So, can you do that, please?

Can you point to any scripture which speaks of the existence of the concept of the dual fulfillment of prophecy?

Sure, but calling it a night.

Talk with you tomorrow.

 

[Truth7t7]

But, you have Him returning after the wrong tribulation. He returns after global tribulation that Christians go through, not local tribulation in Judea that relates to God's wrath.

Your claim is 100% False as you try desperately to separate "the great tribulation" seen in Matthew 24:21 from Matthew 24:29 "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days"

Yes the tribulation referenced in Matthew 24:29 is the very same great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21, it's unbelievable that you have went down the dirt road in denial of a basic biblical fact, in falsely trying to create your preterist man made 2,000 year gap

As previously stated, those teaching of a pre-trib rapture and millennial kingdom on earth have a better argument than your disguised presentation in the man made 2,000 year gap "Sad"!

LOL. I deny your false interpretations.


Were my questions too difficult for you? Why didn't you answer them? I'll try again.

What do you think, that Jesus will come while they are being taken away captive to all nations before they even arrive on those other nations? Spell this out for me on what your understanding of that is and how long it takes. What is the point of them being taken captive into all nations if they are destroyed while being brought to those other nations or are destroyed shortly after arriving there?

Are you unable to answer these questions? If you want to be taken seriously, then tell me exactly what your understanding is in terms of how the bringing of the Jews captive to all nations and the times of Gentiles fit within the supposed future tribulation of Matthew 24:21.

The future tribulation and Jerusalem being trodden down is 42 months or 1260 days just as Revelation 11:2 clearly shows same event as Luke 21:24, the Jews being led away captive takes place during this time frame "Before" the future tribulation ends,

You magically claim that there are two completely different tribulatios seen, Matthew 24:21 "70AD" and Matthew 24:29 "Future" once again your claim is 100% "False"!

Luke 21:24KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

 

[Truth7t7]

Pray Read/Study and Pray More and Wait

Big Smiles, I Pray You Respond Showing Your Claim Of Dual Prophecy Fulfillment That Doesn't Exist In Scripture

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sure, but calling it a night.

Talk with you tomorrow.

Hmm. They were not hard questions and it shouldn't take long to answer, but, sure, we can wait til tomorrow.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your claim is 100% False as you try desperately to separate "the great tribulation" seen in Matthew 24:21 from Matthew 24:29 "Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days"

No, it's not 100% false. I, of course, believe it's 100% true. Your opinion means nothing.

Yes the tribulation referenced in Matthew 24:29 is the very same great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21, it's unbelievable that you have went down the dirt road in denial of a basic biblical fact, in falsely trying to create your preterist man made 2,000 year gap

It's unbelievable that you brush the time periods shown in between (Matthew 24:23-26, Luke 21:24b) under the rug.

As previously stated, those teaching of a pre-trib rapture and millennial kingdom on earth have a better argument than your disguised presentation in the man made 2,000 year gap "Sad"!

LOL. That is just a completely ignorant statement right there. Foolish.

The future tribulation and Jerusalem being trodden down is 42 months or 1260 days just as Revelation 11:2 clearly shows same event as Luke 21:24, the Jews being led away captive takes place during this time frame "Before" the future tribulation ends,

Was that so hard to actually address that? Good grief, trying to get you to address something is like pulling teeth. After requesting that at least 10 times, you finally addressed it. But, where does Revelation 11 say anything about anyone being led away captive to all nations? Where does Revelation 11 say anything about anyone fleeing to the mountains?

And, you didn't answer my questions about at what point does Jesus come while they are being led away captive to all nations? Before they get to those nations or shortly after? What is the point of them being led away captive to all nations if they are just destroyed while being taken there or shortly after, anyway? Why wouldn't God just ensure that they are destroyed while in Judea instead of waiting until they are led away captive first?

Also, Revelation 11:2 refers to the holy city and the temple of God. Why are you taking that literally as if it's talking about earthly Jerusalem and a literal, physical temple? The holy city is the new heavenly Jerusalem (Rev 21:2) and the temple of God is the church (Eph 2:19-22, 2 Cor 6:16). This is a different context from Luke 21:20-24 which refers to earthly Jerusalem and relates to the destruction of the physical temple buildings there.

There's so many things that you have not taken into account here. Now, that is what is sad!

You magically claim that there are two completely different tribulatios seen, Matthew 24:21 "70AD" and Matthew 24:29 "Future" once again your claim is 100% "False"!

Luke 21:24KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

You are trying to relate two unrelated passages there. And earthly Jerusalem and the temple buildings were destroyed in 70 AD, but you inexplicably think that scripture would say nothing about such a significant event as that.

So, your claims are 100% "False"! Sad!

 

[Truth7t7]

No, it's not 100% false. I, of course, believe it's 100% true. Your opinion means nothing.


It's unbelievable that you brush the time periods shown in between (Matthew 24:23-26, Luke 21:24b) under the rug.


LOL. That is just a completely ignorant statement right there. Foolish.


Was that so hard to actually address that? Good grief, trying to get you to address something is like pulling teeth. After requesting that at least 10 times, you finally addressed it. But, where does Revelation 11 say anything about anyone being led away captive to all nations? Where does Revelation 11 say anything about anyone fleeing to the mountains?

And, you didn't answer my questions about at what point does Jesus come while they are being led away captive to all nations? Before they get to those nations or shortly after? What is the point of them being led away captive to all nations if they are just destroyed while being taken there or shortly after, anyway? Why wouldn't God just ensure that they are destroyed while in Judea instead of waiting until they are led away captive first?

Also, Revelation 11:2 refers to the holy city and the temple of God. Why are you taking that literally as if it's talking about earthly Jerusalem and a literal, physical temple? The holy city is the new heavenly Jerusalem (Rev 21:2) and the temple of God is the church (Eph 2:19-22, 2 Cor 6:16). This is a different context from Luke 21:20-24 which refers to earthly Jerusalem and relates to the destruction of the physical temple buildings there.

There's so many things that you have not taken into account here. Now, that is what is sad!


You are trying to relate two unrelated passages there. And earthly Jerusalem and the temple buildings were destroyed in 70 AD, but you inexplicably think that scripture would say nothing about such a significant event as that.

So, your claims are 100% "False"! Sad!

Your preterist eschatology is a man made fable, a complete fabrication in denial of biblical truth

No 2,000 year gap is seen between verses 21 & 29 below as you "Falsely" claim, verse 15 shows Daniel's AOD that causes those to flee Judea into the mountains, this causes the great tribulation in verse 21

Verses 33-34 below silences your false claims with a sledge hammer slammed to the table, the generation that witnesses Daniel's AOD in verse 15 will not pass until (All Is Fulfilled) your claim of a 2,000 year gap is destroyed as you have untold generations that have passed and still waiting for the second coming in fulfillment, before your eyes your claim is destroyed!

Except those days should be shortened no flesh should be saved, and you magically turn this into 2,000 years and waiting, absolutely "Laughable"!

Those falsely teaching of a pre-trib rapture or a millennial kingdom on this earth have a better argument, "Sad"!

(This Generation Shall Not Pass, Till All These Things Be Fulfilled)

Matthew 24:15-22 & 29KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Was the generation of the Apostles the generation that witnessed the day and hour no man knows, were they the generation who witnessed all things fulfilled in Matthew Chapter 24?

"Absolutely Not" it's a future generation that will witness the day and hour no man knows in the future literal second coming of Jesus in the heavens

Will you now break out your preterist symbolic magical wand and start waving it around, Big Smiles!

Matthew 24:33-36KJV
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[Brakelite]

“1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
The fulfilment of Matthew 24 began shortly after Christ's departure. It began at that time because the gospel continued to be preached after He had ascended, but Israel, as a nation, ultimately rejected it through their leadership when they stoned Stephen.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
From verse 4 to 14, is a brief summary of the world's future right to the time of the second coming. However, from verse 15, Jesus begins to give some more detail of the events that would transpired over that time, beginning with...
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
This refers to 70ad. And it is exactly as history played out. Because Jewish zealots had been constantly attacking, and murdering Romans, they had become a right pain in the neck to the Roman administration. So they decided to destroy Jerusalem, and ban the Jewish religion. Titus sieged Jerusalem in the mid 60s, planting the Roman idolatrous banners around about the city, (the AOD) but for some reason abandoned the idea, and went away. The Christians, wanting to flee but being unable, suddenly found their opportunity. While Jewish zealots chased after the Romans and attacked the rear of their columns, the Christians in Jerusalem, all of them, escaped amidst the jeering and celebrating onlookers. That's why Jesus said, don't go down to your house, don't look back, don't hanker for those things you can't carry, or you might end up staying. This is your chance. Take it. And they did. They fled to Antioch, Petra, and cities all around Syria. There are numerous ruins in Syria of churches and cities built by those early Christians. Dome roofed churches that were subsequently copied by the Islamic builders of later years.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

But life for the church in the ensuing years was not all rosy. In fact, that great tribulation began with subsequent Jewish, then Roman persecution, followed by 1260 years of papal dominion during which entire Christian communities throughout Italy, France, Britain and Germany were destroyed over centuries of political and religious bigotry and persecution. But that period was cut short by the grace of God through the Protestant reformation. The Bible, long held in derision and hated by the papal leaders, was translated into the common tongue and the printing press made it available to all the world. Truth became really available and the gospel, and the kingdom of God flourished. However, even though truth was available, Satan wasn't lying around doing nothing...

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
So, the second coming again. But Jesus returns to the past, and adds more detail, beginning from where He left off in verses 21,22.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Those signs were revealed in a small part (letter to be repeated much more intensely but for a shorter period immediately before Jesus comes) in the mid to late 18th and early 19th century new American republic, which God had opened up to His church was a safe haven from European popes and kings who sought their lives. After the tribulation was brought to a halt in the late 18th century, we had the Great Awakening. During that time there were signs that greatly encouraged the church, and gave great impetus to the urgency of their message...a message never before preached by the church... The second coming. Those signs began in1755 with the great Lisbon earthquake that was felt all over the world. Then , on the 19th May,1780, it was just as prophecy said. The sun was darkened in the middle of the day, and the moon failed to give it's light. Reports thought New England testified to the unsettling nature of these phenomenon, with birds returning to their nests at midday, and people unable to see more than a few feet in from of them, and having to carry torches to get about. See also Joel 2:31; Revelation 6:12,13. Look it up. Fascinating. Then, again as prophecy foretold, the "stars" (for an ancient prophet seeing meteors falling across the entire sky at a rate of hundreds every minute, it would have looked like stars falling) fell in the greatest meteor shower ever recorded.


30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. ”
Matthew 24:1-30 KJV

Unfeigned Bible

Unfeigned Bible

www.unfeignedbible.app

 

[Brakelite]

The abomination of desolation, as brought upon God's people in a localised literal sense at70AD, will be repeated on a global scale in a spiritual sense before the second coming. First brought about by the idolatry of pagan Rome in their desecration of holy ground around Jerusalem, but in the future brought about by the idolatry of papal Rome in a global sense by their desecration of the spiritual temple of God, the church.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your preterist eschatology is a man made fable, a complete fabrication in denial of biblical truth

My preterist eschatology? Do preterists believe that Matthew 24:29-31 relates to the future second coming of Christ like I do? No. Do they believe that Matthew 24:9-13 refers to things that happen just before the end of the age when Jesus returns like I do? No. Do they believe that the book of Revelation refers to the future second coming of Christ in Revelation 19 and other ongoing or future things that lead up to the second coming of Christ within Revelation 2-20 like I do? No. So, don't foolishly talk about my supposed "preterist eschatology" just because I agree with them about one passage. That's just ridiculous, childish nonsense on your part.

No 2,000 year gap is seen between verses 21 & 29 below as you "Falsely" claim, verse 15 shows Daniel's AOD that causes those to flee Judea into the mountains, this causes the great tribulation in verse 21

Verses 33-34 below silences your false claims with a sledge hammer slammed to the table, the generation that witnesses Daniel's AOD in verse 15 will not pass until (All Is Fulfilled) your claim of a 2,000 year gap is destroyed as you have untold generations that have passed and still waiting for the second coming in fulfillment, before your eyes your claim is destroyed!

Except those days should be shortened no flesh should be saved, and you magically turn this into 2,000 years and waiting, absolutely "Laughable"!

Those falsely teaching of a pre-trib rapture or a millennial kingdom on this earth have a better argument, "Sad"!

There is something very off about you. You need to get checked out. You've already said these exact words maybe 100 times. I think that's enough. No need for your repeated gibberish.

(This Generation Shall Not Pass, Till All These Things Be Fulfilled)

Matthew 24:15-22 & 29KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Was the generation of the Apostles the generation that witnessed the day and hour no man knows, were they the generation who witnessed all things fulfilled in Matthew Chapter 24?

"Absolutely Not" it's a future generation that will witness the day and hour no man knows in the future literal second coming of Jesus in the heavens

Will you now break out your preterist symbolic magical wand and start waving it around, Big Smiles!

Matthew 24:33-36KJV
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

It says "THIS generation", not "THAT generation". You are trying to change it to fit your ridiculous hyper-futurist beliefs that you share with dispensationalists. He said "THIS generation" so, it has to be something that existed at that time and will still exist when He returns in the future.

The word "generation" there is translated from the Greek word "genea" and it has multiple definitions, one of which is "race" or "a type of people". That's how I understand it. Jesus was saying "THIS generation" or this people group (the Jews) standing before Him would not pass away until all those things were fulfilled. And they will pass away when Jesus comes on that day and at that hour that no one but the Father knows, at which point "heaven and earth shall pass away".

Unlike you, I do not try to change "THIS generation" into "THAT generation" as you do with your hyper-futurist magical wand that you wave around while watching yourself in the mirror. HUGE Smiles!

 

[shepherdsword]

When Christ died and rose? Or in 70 AD when it was fully destroyed? There can only be one answer here.

Why this matters is because of what Matthew 24:15, for one, records.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

If the holy place in this verse is meaning the 2nd temple, that obviously, thus undeniably, means that the 2nd temple did not cease to be the holy place when Christ died and rose, it continued to be the holy place up until it ws destroyed. Which then means since animal sacrificing continued even after Christ died and rose, that because some are interpreting the holy place to be meaning the 2nd temple, their interpretation implies that God was ok with animal sacrificing still continuing, because, after all, per their interpretation, the 2nd temple was the still the holy place until it was destroyed.

Some interpreters seem to speak out of both sides of their mouth. Where on one side of their mouth they insist that the 2nd temple ceased to be the holy place once Christ died and rose, then on the other side of their mouth they insist the 2nd temple was still the holy place until it was destroyed. Don't some interpreters even grasp what a 'contradiction' is? That contradictions clearly lead to lies not the truth?

What does one do then, assuming they are at least humble enough to admit that they are contradicting that they agree Christ's death and resurrection made the 2nd temple no longer the holy place by insisting that the holy place in Matthew 24:15 is meaning the 2nd temple? Do they do like Dispys do, make it be involving a rebuilt temple in the future? Like that is the only option. But if it was the only option, I for sure don't fault them for insisting the holy place is meaning the 2nd temple in that case. Because clearly, a literal rebuilt temple in the future being how one should interpret this, is one of the most far-fetched ideas anyone has ever come up with. And I'm thinking there may have been a time in the past when that was my position as well. And if so, that was then, this is now.

Is there another option? Of course there is. It's involving 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and what all that involves. Except 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is not involving a literal temple, not the 2nd one before it was destroyed nor a rebuilt one in the future. And the funny thing about it, some of these interpreters insisting the holy place meant in Matthew 24:15 is the 2nd temple are on the same page with me concerning 2 Thessalonians 2:4, that it is not involving a literal temple.

Why can't these same interpreters plainly see, that by applying 2 Thessalonians 2:4 to Matthew 24:15 rather than the 2nd temple, now they are no longer speaking out of both sides of their mouth? Now they are no longer contradicting that they agree that the 2nd temple ceased to be the holy place once Christ died and rose, as opposed to it continuing to be the holy place until it was destroyed in 70 AD. But who cares, right? It's way better to contradict something rather than trying to understand something in such a manner where nothing is being contradicted. God forbid, that the latter makes the better sense.

What one should be asking themselves since Jesus was a prophet and knew He was going to the cross, did He too think the 2nd temple remained the holy place until it would be destroyed in 70 AD? After all, keep in mind, Jesus is the one who called the temple in mind the holy place. Would He be so silly to contradict that His death and resurrection would make the 2nd temple no longer the holy place, by then meaning the 2nd temple rather than the 3rd temple, a spiritual temple?

When do some of you think the 3rd temple initially came into affect? In 70 AD when the 2nd temple was destroyed? Surely not. There you go then unless you want to continue speaking out of both sides of your mouth. That the 3rd temple came into affect once Christ died and rose, therefore, causing the 2nd temple to cease being the holy place, yet the holy place meant in Matthew 24:15 is meaning the 2nd temple. What a confused interpreter this person is, spouting nothing other than one contradiction after another.

How do you feel about Paul taking a nazerite vow which had a purification rite that required animal sacrifice? Did he take it in an unholy temple?

Ac 21:23-26
Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purifcation, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How do you feel about Paul taking a nazerite vow which had a purification rite that required animal sacrifice? Did he take it in an unholy temple?

Ac 21:23-26
Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purifcation, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

How could the temple still be considered the holy place after the veil of the temple was torn in two when Jesus died? That signified that people would no longer need to go to Jerusalem and go to the temple to worship God, but that God would come to them wherever they are by way of the Holy Spirit. The holy place became the bodies of believers and the church (the temple of God) at that point.

Paul did not do what he did there because of thinking that the temple was still the holy place and that animal sacrifices were still required of the Jews. No, he did that for the purpose of leading them to salvation.

1 Corinthians 9:19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

Paul could have said "No, I'm not doing that! The old covenant is obsolete and animal sacrifices are no longer required!". But, he didn't because he knew it would take some time for those Jews to understand that the old covenant was obsolete and that they were now under the new covenant established by the blood of Christ. So, he went along with what they wanted at that time in order to lead them to salvation. He knew he could explain to them that the old covenant and its animal sacrifices were made obsolete by Christ's sacrifice at a later time after he had a chance to earn their respect and get to a point where they would be willing to listen to him.

 

[Truth7t7]

My preterist eschatology? Do preterists believe that Matthew 24:29-31 relates to the future second coming of Christ like I do? No. Do they believe that Matthew 24:9-13 refers to things that happen just before the end of the age when Jesus returns like I do? No. Do they believe that the book of Revelation refers to the future second coming of Christ in Revelation 19 and other ongoing or future things that lead up to the second coming of Christ within Revelation 2-20 like I do? No. So, don't foolishly talk about my supposed "preterist eschatology" just because I agree with them about one passage. That's just ridiculous, childish nonsense on your part.

Do preterist believe the great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 took place in 66-70AD "Yes" just as you do

There is something very off about you. You need to get checked out. You've already said these exact words maybe 100 times. I think that's enough. No need for your repeated gibberish.

Because the scripture proves your claims wrong, the generation that witnesses the great tribulation in Matthew 24:21 will also witness the second coming in Matthew 24:30

Your claim the great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 took place in 70AD is a man made preterist fairy tale

(This Generation Shall Not Pass, Till All These Things Be Fulfilled)

Your claim a 2,000 year gap exists between Matthew 24:21 and Matthew 24:29 is 100% a "False Teaching"!

It says "THIS generation", not "THAT generation". You are trying to change it to fit your ridiculous hyper-futurist beliefs that you share with dispensationalists. He said "THIS generation" so, it has to be something that existed at that time and will still exist when He returns in the future.

"This Generation" will be a future generation that will be eyewitnesses of the signs and the Lord's second coming

Did the Apostles generation witness the day and hour no man knows (Second Coming) absolutely not, your claim of 70AD fulfillment of Matthew 24:21 the great tribulation is a farce

Was the generation of the Apostles the generation that witnessed the day and hour no man knows, were they the generation who witnessed all things fulfilled in Matthew Chapter 24?

"Absolutely Not" it's a future generation that will witness the day and hour no man knows in the future literal second coming of Jesus in the heavens

Will you now break out your preterist symbolic magical wand and start waving it around, Big Smiles!

Matthew 24:33-36KJV
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

 

[covenantee]

Do preterist believe the great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 took place in 66-70AD "Yes" just as you do


Because the scripture proves your claims wrong, the generation that witnesses the great tribulation in Matthew 24:21 will also witness the second coming in Matthew 24:30

Your claim the great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 took place in 70AD is a man made preterist fairy tale

(This Generation Shall Not Pass, Till All These Things Be Fulfilled)

Your claim a 2,000 year gap exists between Matthew 24:21 and Matthew 24:29 is 100% a "False Teaching"!


"This Generation" will be a future generation that will be eyewitnesses of the signs and the Lord's second coming

Did the Apostles generation witness the day and hour no man knows (Second Coming) absolutely not, your claim of 70AD fulfillment of Matthew 24:21 the great tribulation is a farce

Was the generation of the Apostles the generation that witnessed the day and hour no man knows, were they the generation who witnessed all things fulfilled in Matthew Chapter 24?

"Absolutely Not" it's a future generation that will witness the day and hour no man knows in the future literal second coming of Jesus in the heavens

Will you now break out your preterist symbolic magical wand and start waving it around, Big Smiles!

Matthew 24:33-36KJV
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Jesus was the greatest preterist Who ever lived.

He fulfilled every one of the scores of OT prophecies about Himself (Luke 24:44), decades before 70 AD.

When will you stop maligning Jesus?

 

[covenantee]

Covenantee posts 343 & 363 were directly responded to, your suggestion they weren't is false

They weren't.

You haven't told us what the Judaean Christians told you when you declared them to be "future unfulfilled".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Do preterist believe the great tribulation seen in Matthew 24:21 took place in 66-70AD "Yes" just as you do

LOL. They also believe Jesus died around 30 AD and rose again around 33 AD just as you do, so I guess you are a preterist, too. You are so incredibly childish. Please grow up.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are so incredibly childish. Please grow up.

The truth has hit a nerve, yes you're a preterist concerning events in the Olivet discourse namely your belief in Matthew 24:21 taking place in 70AD

Your icing on the cake is the false claim a 2,000 year gap is seen between Matthew 24:21 "70AD" and Matthew 24:29 "Future" and waiting, trying to falsely create two different tribulations in propping up your false preterist beliefs in 70AD fulfillment of Matthew 24:21

The only wool pulled over eyes is your own, you have fooled nobody regarding your false preterist teachings and beliefs in 70AD fulfillment

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Dave Watchman]

No such thing as a dual prophecy fulfillment, it's more like fake it till ya make it

Not yet. We were talking about it on another forum. Right now there's only one recorded fulfillment, some of us are just now waiting for His Second fulfilment.

Isaac Newton was the first I know of who ever wrote of it in his Daniel 9 commentary. He got the idea first. That was somewhere in the 1700's. It was where he was considering the reasons why the heptads, the "weeks", were split up as seven, and sixty two. Not just written as 69 weeks. How Daniel 9 must have an application to both comings of Messiah the Prince.

"The former part of the Prophecy related to the first coming of Christ, being dated to his coming as a Prophet; this being dated to his coming to be Prince or King, seems to relate to his second coming. There, the Prophet was consummate, and the most holy anointed: here, he that was anointed comes to be Prince and to reign. For Daniel's Prophecies reach to the end of the world; and there is scarce a Prophecy in the Old Testament concerning Christ, which doth not in something or other relate to his second coming." - Isaac Newton​

Right now you're right, because there's not yet been a second fulfillment. But Daniel 9 is the only place which sets out the timing in great detail for the coming of the Son of Man. And we must be in agreement that Christ is making two visitations. The things Newton suggested we be looking for, appear to be here now. Timed out in 7 and 62 week intervals.

Peaceful Sabbath.