When did the church start?

[H. Richard]

I did not attack you personally but I did call your OP "nonsense". And it is still nonsense because you do misunderstand and misinterpret Scripture.

Here is what you said: "In other words he considered himself to still be under the Jewish law. No where in his preaching on the day of Pentecost did he indicate that no one was under the Law of Moses. Therefore if the church started with Peter’s preaching on the day of Pentecost, then the church started under the Law of Moses, not grace, and Paul’s gospel was a heresy."

And anyone who has a modicum of knowledge about what happened between the crucifixion of Christ and the day of Pentecost will see that this is TOTAL BALONEY. Absolute rubbish.

Therefore I gave you the truth from Scripture, but you -- like many pthers -- can't handle the truth.

Okay. Then I will do likewise to you. Your reply is complete nonsense, absolute rubbish has no scriptural support since it is a false idea of what the scriptures show us. You are wrong when you think the scriptures do not say what they say.

A religious person has to INTERPRET scriptures to give them meaning. And of course they, like you, can slant it to mean what ever supports your theology.

As you have said to me, I (H Richard) have given you the truth from Scripture, but you -- like many others -- can't handle the truth. So there I have built up my ego based on your ignorance.

 

[Marymog]

Mary,

The Rock has always been Christ. So when Peter told Jesus that he believed that Jesus was the Son of God, Peter was confirming that Christ is the Rock upon which the Church would be built.

1 CORINTHIANS 10
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Thanks Enoch. That is an interesting post Reformation teaching that you have taken on as your own personal doctrine. I prefer the 2,000 year teaching of The Church.

Christ called Peter a rock. You don't.

I believe Christ.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Mary,

The Rock has always been Christ. So when Peter told Jesus that he believed that Jesus was the Son of God, Peter was confirming that Christ is the Rock upon which the Church would be built.

1 CORINTHIANS 10
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

Your reply, which has nothing to do with Matthew 16:18, is complete nonsense, absolute rubbish has no scriptural support since it is a false idea of what the scriptures show us.

Mary

 

[marksman]

Jesus said he will build his church upon a rock. He said that rock is Peter. It was after the death of Jesus that Peter became the leader of The Church that Jesus built.

Mary

As I understand it the church was built on Christ the author and finisher of our faith.

 

[Jon Mathews]

Why is it important to know when the church for this age of grace started?

If we think that the church for this age started with Peter on the day of Pentecost then we must consider that Peter was still a Jew, speaking to Jews, going to the Jewish Temple to worship and that he still wanted to keep the Law of Moses when he told God he did not want to eat anything unclean and that his going to the house of a Gentile would make him unclean.. (see supporting scriptures below)

In other words he considered himself to still be under the Jewish law. No where in his preaching on the day of Pentecost did he indicate that no one was under the Law of Moses. Therefore if the church started with Peter’s preaching on the day of Pentecost, then the church started under the Law of Moses, not grace, and Paul’s gospel was a heresy.

In addition, the scriptures state the gospel of grace that was given to Paul had been hidden in God and was now revealed to Paul. Therefore, the gospel of grace was not given to mankind until Paul preached it.

Therefore a person has to choose whether he is in a church started under the law of Moses or a church that started under grace the day Paul, preached the gospel of grace. You can’t have it both ways. You can’t mix law and grace without destroying them both and, in my opinion, that is just what most of the churches of today are doing.

According to the scriptures the world will be judged according to Paul’s gospel (not Peter‘s). That is why it is important to know when your church started.

Written by H Richard

Supporting scripture:

Acts 2:46
46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,
NKJV

Acts 3:1
3 Now Peter and John went up together to the temple at the hour of prayer, the ninth hour.
NKJV

Acts 3:6 8
6 Then Peter said, "Silver and gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk."
7 And he took him by the right hand and lifted him up, and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
8 So he, leaping up, stood and walked and entered the temple with them — walking, leaping, and praising God.
NKJV

Acts 5:25
25 So one came and told them, saying, "Look, the men whom you put in prison are standing in the temple and teaching the people!"
NKJV

Acts 5:41 42
41 So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name.
42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
NKJV

Depends what you mean by "Church". Since Christ is the head of the Church, Christ has always existed, so you can say the Church has always existed. If you mean people who have the Spirit of Christ (besides Jesus), then it started with Adam. If you are speaking of New Covenant believers filled with the Holy Spirit then it started when Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on them and said "Receive ye the Holy Spirit" in John 20:22. If you are speaking of when the Holy Spirit was poured down on many people and when the numbers of believers were added to greatly, it started at Pentecost. I see the Church as all those who have the Spirit of God. That includes all the Righteous people who ever lived, from Adam to Abraham to David to Jesus Christ to Peter and Paul to myself, etc.