When do you "expect" Jesus to return?

[-Phil]

Matthew 24:44​

Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.​

When most "expect"--is wrong. Since Jesus put it in those terms--do you believe Him? Do those terms disqualify what you believe about when He returns?

During these times of when we are also supposed to be lead "unto all truth" by the Holy Spirit, just how are we to rationalize (or reconcile) both of these biblical facts as both being true, and what are we to do with the idea that what we "expect" is most likely wrong?

I suggest asking "When did what I believe about Jesus' return begin to be believed and taught among the Church?" Did it begin during the time when Peter warned about "false teachers" coming into the church, which he identified the time as the times of those he was speaking to, saying "among you?" Or did it begin during the time of when Paul warned of those who "believe a lie" leading to "strong delusion?" Did it begin anywhere in between--and therefore, there is no such time in all of church history that what "you expect" is to be considered reliable?

If so...who is it that has been leading you?

The point is, we all know what most "expect"...and that is not what we should believe.

It’s actually the “you” of ”you do not expect” which is the key.
How long could an eternal being believe in time?
Which thoughts would infinite intelligence believe?

 

[Marvelloustime]

SOON .

Yep. The Lord’s return sure does draw nigh.
Everyone has just been prayed for.

 

[ScottA]

Just simply fact sir. If you quote the Bible as you quoted 2 Pet 1:21, that is fact, but if you add words from your mouth to it, it becomes opinion, just simple truth Scott.

No, but only if it is my opinion, is it my opinion.

But you know the scriptures and know better, that it is not those who are sent who speak, but the Holy Spirit. So, no, I have not added, but you have taken away insisting that it is opinion.

 

[MatthewG]

The biggest concern is the additional for telling of the "watch and wait until the coming of Christ", to a physical real life group of people.

Why would it be a lie, or relatable to an future event if it was given to a specific group of people in time?

That is what is confusing to me, however as it is, people believe what they will believe. Even if it is an traditional stance, with John having wrote in 96AD ( I believe he wrote closer to 67-69AD), rather than before the temple destruction.

With the advancement in technology there is now advertisements about "One for Israel", and a lot of it is just based as though God himself is working in and through a material group now today I suppose?

That is far away from the truth if you ask me, as God doesn't deal with the material nation of Israel anymore, and personally, after 70AD, there was no more genealogy for people to claim to be from any specific tribe as on that day when the wrath of God fell, there was 1,100,000 Jewish people that died, along with the materials they had collected over time all being burnt up.

As per 2 Peter talks about the "Elements of the heavens being burnt up", their heaven and earth the Jewish people understood was done completely away with.

God deals with people on a spiritual level now, and no longer materially.

The reason Jesus had to come back psychically in that day in age was to "Show the people that their sins had been forgiven" or "the sin offering was accepted"- just as in back in the day they would sacrifice once a year and a person would go into the holy of holies, Jesus had to present himself as well, and I believe that all happen when the wrath of God had fallen upon Jerusalem for killing the Son, and the Son came back and saved the bride, and it is all in faith I believe this personally, though there is no documentation.

So the end question is this - Do you believe in the Totality of the Lord Jesus Christ and his victory in that day in age for all the world? Or do you not believe it?

That choice is totally between you, yourself, and God. Not between you and others who may see different or expect a different result.

What Does the Bible Say About The Second Coming Of Jesus?

Bible verses about The Second Coming Of Jesus

www.openbible.info

 

[MatthewG]

When comes to the hour and day is not know; I simple equate that with death.

Through out all the world, no one has ever been able to guess when they would die, though they could get close to as though "they believe they may not make it very much longer", as a person I once knew had told another service member at the desk one day after having not been feeling so well, dying a week later before his birthday had come about.

No one in the world, can guess or know exactly when they are going to die - and that is when a new transition from this earthly place to a new heavenly realm takes place with judgement, I assume right there at death, quickly. With two places which a person can go, either outside the Kingdom, or Inside of the Kingdom.

They were also on watch, and waiting to see the Lord Return in that day in age, and that is simply something that will never happen again as it was only a one time deal in that day in age, and thus we have death to wait for, and we leave this earthly existence and go on to the heavenly - perhaps people will have their "Jesus Returns experience" in that realm.

I do not think or believe it will be walking around now today, and see the Lord return because you will have to go over to Jerusalem for that. (If it is going to happen for you in the future materially now today - I do not subscribe to that as the letters are specially written to group of people who were heavily persecuted and killed for their faith in Christ).

However people are allowed to freely believe, and have their opinions, of what they believe will happen in their own future.

You will never know the hour or day of your own death though.

 

[Robert Gwin]

No, but only if it is my opinion, is it my opinion.

But you know the scriptures and know better, that it is not those who are sent who speak, but the Holy Spirit. So, no, I have not added, but you have taken away insisting that it is opinion.

Youre not God Scott, Jesus said it was His word that was truth. Any time you speak a falsehood about God's word, it is not been through God's holy spirit sir. To prove the point, we Christians have been assigned to teach the good news of the Kingdom of God, so what is the Kingdom Scott? Here is your opportunity to obey Jesus in our assignment, bear testimony to me.

 

[Rockerduck]

I'm not going to worry about a thing. I'm sitting here in my office listening to gospel music and waiting for the Lord's return.

 

[MatthewG]

Good deal @Rockerduck

 

[ScottA]

Youre not God Scott, Jesus said it was His word that was truth. Any time you speak a falsehood about God's word, it is not been through God's holy spirit sir. To prove the point, we Christians have been assigned to teach the good news of the Kingdom of God, so what is the Kingdom Scott? Here is your opportunity to obey Jesus in our assignment, bear testimony to me.

No, that is a dodge by changing the subject.

But again, those who are sent are indeed not God, but rather it is the Holy Spirit (God) who speaks through them. Your argument is not valid, for that is not at all how these things work. It is written rather that even "Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men"; and Paul (not God) claimed also, "For to me, to live is Christ", not speaking what was his own, but what was Jesus' according to what Christ stated of the Holy Spirit, saying, "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you." In other words, from the top down, this is exactly how the revelation of foretold "all truth" is finished since Christ.

So, no, I am not God, but from God to Christ, and the Father via Christ and the Holy Spirit, men to whom it is given speak what is not theirs, but God's. And this is the biblical precedence by which I have been speaking with you.

 

[Robert Gwin]

No, that is a dodge by changing the subject.

But again, those who are sent are indeed not God, but rather it is the Holy Spirit (God) who speaks through them. Your argument is not valid, for that is not at all how these things work. It is written rather that even "Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men"; and Paul (not God) claimed also, "For to me, to live is Christ", not speaking what was his own, but what was Jesus' according to what Christ stated of the Holy Spirit, saying, "He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you." In other words, from the top down, this is exactly how the revelation of foretold "all truth" is finished since Christ.

So, no, I am not God, but from God to Christ, and the Father via Christ and the Holy Spirit, men to whom it is given speak what is not theirs, but God's. And this is the biblical precedence by which I have been speaking with you.

A corrupted translation is not evidence Scott, the truth is either the Word is God, or he was with God, Jesus point blank stated he is not equal to God Jn 14:28 and I believe him sir. You might state that was because he was flesh, ok, after his return to heaven he is not recorded as being equal to God either 1 Cor 11:3. You can believe it or not, but when he returned to heaven he sat at God's right hand, that is a position Scott. Jesus is #2 subjected only to Jehovah.

God's own people misunderstood Jesus once thinking he was trying to make himself equal to God, in fact God Himself, and were going to stone him. Did you not listen to what he said to them sir?

Joh 10:33	The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34	Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35	If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot * be broken;
Joh 10:36	Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world *, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

 

[MatthewG]

Have you ever considered that Jesus Christ, became one with His Father, and sat on the throne with his Father as the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lords?

That is what is explained in Revelation Chapter 4, which is 11 verses.

It seems that the Lord God Almighty, was claimed to have created all things, and if that is the case, it would reside with John 1:1-18.

John 1​

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New International Version​

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The Word Became Flesh​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.​

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.​

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.​

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.​

15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[b] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.​

The Word of God, Yahweh's Word, became one with God again after becoming the only begotten of the Father which is after Jesus Christ was raised again from the Dead. According to the Apostle John, Jesus was the very Word of God, that was born in the flesh, who was the glory which the Apostles seen the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Though for some reason many people do not understand that Jesus was known as the Word in the beginning, and he was not created until being born in the flesh then named Jesus Christ. Then he becomes one with his Father, once all things are placed beneath his feet.

1 Corinthians 15:​

The Order of Resurrection​

…26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.…​

See here, how once death and all the enemies of the Son had been put under him, that the Son himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all. I believe that is where Jesus becomes one with his Father known as the Lord God Almighty, who created all things, and without him nothing was made, and that is what seems to be pulled from the scriptures as seeing the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Lord God Almighty, which was the place where he was before having come down and lead a life of obedience to Yahweh, dying for all sin, getting rid of the devil, saving people from sheol, along with their judgement, allows for Jesus Christ, to be able to have fulfilled all things promised in the Old Testament, and leave us to a new covenant where God writes his laws on the hearts and minds of people seeking him out in faith by and through the spirit which is given according to Paul, in Romans.

Peace and Hope​

5 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we[a] have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we[b] boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us.​

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6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die.8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.​

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9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wraththrough him! 10 For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.​

Then you have this said in Revelation 4:

Revelation 4:1-11​

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It seems that the Father, and the Son had became one together sitting on the throne, as the twenty-four elders cast their crowns before the throne, and worship him who lives forever and ever the Lord God Almighty, which was said before, including worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they existed and were created - by his will and his Word.

Then again could be wrong, still interesting to look at, you can go further in Revelation 5 and read more.

 

[ScottA]

A corrupted translation is not evidence Scott, the truth is either the Word is God, or he was with God, Jesus point blank stated he is not equal to God Jn 14:28 and I believe him sir. You might state that was because he was flesh, ok, after his return to heaven he is not recorded as being equal to God either 1 Cor 11:3. You can believe it or not, but when he returned to heaven he sat at God's right hand, that is a position Scott. Jesus is #2 subjected only to Jehovah.

God's own people misunderstood Jesus once thinking he was trying to make himself equal to God, in fact God Himself, and were going to stone him. Did you not listen to what he said to them sir?

Joh 10:33	The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Joh 10:34	Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Joh 10:35	If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot * be broken;
Joh 10:36	Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world *, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

So...this is the rub: That you do not believe Jesus to be God.

If that is true (that you do not believe Him to be God), then what you have said regarding translations being corrupted, would apply to you, for it is you who are relying upon a translation.

But I am not. What I have been telling you is by no translation but from God. If I have used the scriptures, it is not that I have only used them, but rather that I might reason with you who refer to them. In which case you should also question what you think you know to be true, because you have identified the possibility of corruption having only relied on that source.

If you do not want to hear what is not given by God that has been subject to corruption, just say so.

 

[Robert Gwin]

So...this is the rub: That you do not believe Jesus to be God.

If that is true (that you do not believe Him to be God), then what you have said regarding translations being corrupted, would apply to you, for it is you who are relying upon a translation.

But I am not. What I have been telling you is by no translation but from God. If I have used the scriptures, it is not that I have only used them, but rather that I might reason with you who refer to them. In which case you should also question what you think you know to be true, because you have identified the possibility of corruption having only relied on that source.

If you do not want to hear what is not given by God that has been subject to corruption, just say so.

You are absolutely correct if Jesus is God, that would put the NWT as altered. So the relevant question is, is Jesus God? What does the Bible say sir: Jer 10:10 But Jehovah is the true God, he is the living God,
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven. ASV

So Scott you do not believe my words, which of course is fine, but I would recommend you believe God's words, I know I do for sure. Acts 17:11

 

[ScottA]

You are absolutely correct if Jesus is God, that would put the NWT as altered. So the relevant question is, is Jesus God? What does the Bible say sir: Jer 10:10 But Jehovah is the true God, he is the living God,
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father who is in heaven. ASV

So Scott you do not believe my words, which of course is fine, but I would recommend you believe God's words, I know I do for sure. Acts 17:11

I do believe the scriptures, but what is in error is not the words that are written, but what you and many have believed the words mean. This is why I have said repeatedly that you do not understand. In which case, I will ask you: Have you not perceived that down through the ages what is written has not been fully understood until the truth of it has been revealed by those who are sent, which is by the Holy Spirit...and that it has continued from the beginning and will continue until "all truth" comes as sent by Jesus--just as it is written?

Knowing therefore that what was once not fully understood is to be revealed in the fulness of time, why have you closed that open door only to hold fast to what you have come to know before all truth is revealed? And, when I have told you that I am not telling you what is corrupted by men, but what God has given me, why are you not expecting that these things should come?

So, I will ask you again...do you not want to hear it?

 

[Hippie]

We should never expect the time when Jesus will return. If we knew the approximate time when Jesus will turn. People would most likely wait till that certain time to turn their lives over to Christ. So many people or groups of people predicted the time when Jesus would return and they were all proven wrong. Yes we were told about the signs in Matthew 24:29-31. Look at Revelations and look at all the signs and things we have to go through in there before he returns. The apostles asked him when. He said it's not for us to know the times that the Father has set. Jesus said he doesn't know either. Remember with God a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. God operates outside of time. It is man that created time. We just need to live our daily walk with Jesus and be prepared for when he returns.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I do believe the scriptures, but what is in error is not the words that are written, but what you and many have believed the words mean. This is why I have said repeatedly that you do not understand. In which case, I will ask you: Have you not perceived that down through the ages what is written has not been fully understood until the truth of it has been revealed by those who are sent, which is by the Holy Spirit...and that it has continued from the beginning and will continue until "all truth" comes as sent by Jesus--just as it is written?

Knowing therefore that what was once not fully understood is to be revealed in the fulness of time, why have you closed that open door only to hold fast to what you have come to know before all truth is revealed? And, when I have told you that I am not telling you what is corrupted by men, but what God has given me, why are you not expecting that these things should come?

So, I will ask you again...do you not want to hear it?

Scott: I do believe the scriptures, but what is in error is not the words that are written, but what you and many have believed the words mean. This is why I have said repeatedly that you do not understand. In which case, I will ask you: Have you not perceived that down through the ages what is written has not been fully understood until the truth of it has been revealed by those who are sent, which is by the Holy Spirit...and that it has continued from the beginning and will continue until "all truth" comes as sent by Jesus--just as it is written?

Me: Yes sir I do, although I do not believe we have absolute truth yet, Jehovah progressively reveals things Pro 4:18; Dan 12:4. We believe these truths come through the faithful slave Jesus assigned to feed his sheep. Mat 24:45-47.

Scott: Knowing therefore that what was once not fully understood is to be revealed in the fulness of time, why have you closed that open door only to hold fast to what you have come to know before all truth is revealed? And, when I have told you that I am not telling you what is corrupted by men, but what God has given me, why are you not expecting that these things should come?

Me: With the scene of this world changing so rapidly, we are constantly receiving new understanding sir, in fact that is one of the complaints against us from many, how we change our viewpoints so often. I guess you had never heard that prior, but I can attest to it. You have stated many things that I disagree with, therefore I do not believe you have been given insight by God, no offense, but we disagree on some easily understood things Scott, that are clearly identified in Scripture.

 

[atpollard]

Scott: I do believe the scriptures, but what is in error is not the words that are written, but what you and many have believed the words mean.

John 20:28-29 [NKJV]

And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" ​

Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed [are] those who have not seen and [yet] have believed."​

Are these words ambiguous (κύριός μου καὶ ὁ θεός μου)?

 

[ScottA]

We should never expect the time when Jesus will return. If we knew the approximate time when Jesus will turn. People would most likely wait till that certain time to turn their lives over to Christ. So many people or groups of people predicted the time when Jesus would return and they were all proven wrong. Yes we were told about the signs in Matthew 24:29-31. Look at Revelations and look at all the signs and things we have to go through in there before he returns. The apostles asked him when. He said it's not for us to know the times that the Father has set. Jesus said he doesn't know either. Remember with God a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is like a day. God operates outside of time. It is man that created time. We just need to live our daily walk with Jesus and be prepared for when he returns.

If we are to watch and be ready, we should be seeking the kingdom of God and His righteousness. Having been told of great apostacy and foretold false teachers spreading lies among the church and times of strong delusion, it should be understood that what is expected is not to be believed. We should therefore, be looking at things differently, asking ourselves and God..."What if these things that are expected are wrong and full of false teaching?", "What if we have been looking at things all wrong?" and "What is it that I have missed?"

As it is, I see much of what you have said fits in that common, "expected" format. So, I would recommend you reconsider it all, not leaving anything out. For instance, most have left out the fact that Jesus gave every indication that He was speaking to people at that time who would see all that He foretold "shortly take place", saying "you will see." He even said that before returning He was going to the Father (whom is spirit) and that He again would share that glory with Him--which was "perfect" and "spirit", yet most "expect" Him to return in the flesh, which to the contrary, He gave to the church that we should be His body. These things do not describe the common "expected" belief of Him coming in His own body in the flesh...unless...it is just as He said, saying "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me." Which He could not do except in spirit...which began to occur at Pentecost...which is indeed "at an hour you do not expect.”

 

[amigo de christo]

By the signs of the times ....................SOON and quite sooner than most think too .
Be watching and be ready for ye know not the hour the son of man cometh .

 

[ScottA]

therefore I do not believe you have been given insight by God, no offense, but we disagree on some easily understood things Scott, that are clearly identified in Scripture.

Name one. Which I say again with the chance that you might possibly be holding the door open. Because you said you did not "believe" me, but what you do believe you say "we believe." To the contrary, "I say to you, we speak what we know and testify what we have seen, and you do not receive our witness."