When is 'Speaking in Tongues', true versus false.

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Dave L

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may i ask how you can be a christian and not have the holy spirit? since it is a spiritual birth
Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit one must have before they can discern and believe in Christ. The Baptism comes through repentance.
 

amadeus

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If it doesn't come from God according to scripture, where does it come from?
Of course, I disagree with you but we have been through this previously. It does come from God according to scripture as I have been given to understand it...[but it seems to me that you have not].

If both of us are really following God and paying attention our disagreements will be resolved by Him.

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building." I Cor 3:5-9
 
D

Dave L

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Of course, I disagree with you but we have been through this previously. It does come from God according to scripture as I have been given to understand it...[but it seems to me that you have not].

If both of us are really following God and paying attention our disagreements will be resolved by Him.

"Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building." I Cor 3:5-9
Tongues today are not the first century gift for many reasons. 1) they came only through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. 2) the speakers knew exactly what they were saying and were edified. They needed to interpret so others could understand and be edified. 3) Paul said they would cease by the time John wrote Revelation (details available). History shows they expired around that time as foretold. And some other reasons that conflict with the Azusa Street descriptions of their claims.
 

Ezra

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Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit one must have before they can discern and believe in Christ. The Baptism comes through repentance.
i can not agree with this the fruit of the spirit is a by product of the spirit living n us. thus the type fruit we are to have Jesus is the true vine we are the branches which are to bear fruit. jesus said we must be born again born of THE SPIRIT. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. we get the Holy Spirit the moment we are saved . Baptism is a statement of faith AND a answering of good conscience
 
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Dave L

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i can not agree with this the fruit of the spirit is a by product of the spirit living n us. thus the type fruit we are to have Jesus is the true vine we are the branches which are to bear fruit. jesus said we must be born again born of THE SPIRIT. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. we get the Holy Spirit the moment we are saved . Baptism is a statement of faith AND a answering of good conscience
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith [faithfulness],” (Galatians 5:22)
 

amadeus

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Tongues today are not the first century gift for many reasons. 1) they came only through the two outpourings or through an apostle's hands. 2) the speakers knew exactly what they were saying and were edified. They needed to interpret so others could understand and be edified. 3) Paul said they would cease by the time John wrote Revelation (details available). History shows they expired around that time as foretold. And some other reasons that conflict with the Azusa Street descriptions of their claims.
Thank God for history... but more especially for my history that He has clarified for me. When I know what I am saying [God's interpretation in me through the Holy Spirit] I am indeed edified. If it were not so, my overall testimony would be amiss and it most certainly is not.

You would limit God to two occurrences but as we see in the following prophecy the outpouring was not to be limited to only two people. Both the sons and the daughters are in the plural which already makes it not less than 4 but more likely many more than that...

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" Joel 2:28

I, my friend, am one of those sons and I would not be in error to say that other sons and daughters included in Joel's words are present here on this forum as well as in other places today.

As to Azusa Street, don't throw away all of the blessings with the curses you apparently believe you have seen. That too is history and men have rarely been good at recounting histories although sometimes when led by the Spirit of God they have done very well.
Are you qualified to separate the "Good" [God] from the evil and teach us the flawless truth of God to be found in the Azusa Street or the Wales experiences? Were none of the people in those places included in the above cited prophecy of Joel?


Give God the glory!
 
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Dave L

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Thank God for history... but more especially for my history that He has clarified for me. When I know what I am saying [God's interpretation in me through the Holy Spirit] I am indeed edified. If it were not so, my overall testimony would be amiss and it most certainly is not.

You would limit God to two occurrences but as we see in the following prophecy the outpouring was not to be limited to only two people. Both the sons and the daughters are in the plural which already makes it not less than 4 but more likely many more than that...

"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:" Joel 2:28

I, my friend, am one of those sons and I would not be in error to say that other sons and daughters included in Joel's words are present here on this forum as well as in other places today.

As to Azusa Street, don't throw away all of the blessings with the curses you apparently believe you have seen. That too is history and men have rarely been good at recounting histories although sometimes when led by the Spirit of God they have done very well.
Are you qualified to separate the "Good" [God] from the evil and teach us the flawless truth of God to be found in the Azusa Street or the Wales experiences? Were none of the people in those places included in the above cited prophecy of Joel?


Give God the glory!
If tongues were for today, the entire church would experience them spontaneously as they did in Acts. But instead they are coached and learned. And sectarian, having a highly questionable history. Plus the other details I mentioned that prove them false.
 

Pearl

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All this talk of is it right or is it wrong, was it just for then or is it still relevant had me so worried about it for a while that I stopped using the God-given gift of tongues. But I would encourage anybody that still uses tongues in their prayer life to continue and not give up. We must not listen to those who deny the existence of this gift. When I speak in tongues I know it is of God because it brings peace and harmony and leads me into prayer in a way nothing else does.

In the second of the Chronicles of Narnia which is the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, during the battle with the witch and her army, many of Alsan's followers are turned to stone and rendered ineffective by the touch from the witch. They are only set free again when Aslan breathes new life into them. Christians who deny the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit are like this, rendered ineffective and unable to fight the spiritual battles. We used to sing a hymn, 'Breathe on me breath of God, fill me with life anew, that I may love what Thou dost love, and do what Thou wouldst do." With out the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and the daily use of those Spirit gifts the Church will be ineffective in the battles it faces in today's world.
 
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Dave L

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All this talk of is it right or is it wrong, was it just for then or is it still relevant had me so worried about it for a while that I stopped using the God-given gift of tongues. But I would encourage anybody that still uses tongues in their prayer life to continue and not give up. We must not listen to those who deny the existence of this gift. When I speak in tongues I know it is of God because it brings peace and harmony and leads me into prayer in a way nothing else does.

In the second of the Chronicles of Narnia which is the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, during the battle with the witch and her army, many of Alsan's followers are turned to stone and rendered ineffective by the touch from the witch. They are only set free again when Aslan breathes new life into them. Christians who deny the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit are like this, rendered ineffective and unable to fight the spiritual battles. We used to sing a hymn, 'Breathe on me breath of God, fill me with life anew, that I may love what Thou dost love, and do what Thou wouldst do." With out the infilling of the Holy Spirit, and the daily use of those Spirit gifts the Church will be ineffective in the battles it faces in today's world.
Tongues today is human babbling that does nothing more than help alleviate stress.

“O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:” (1 Timothy 6:20)
 

Pearl

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Tongues today is human babbling that does nothing more than help alleviate stress.

“O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:” (1 Timothy 6:20)
Please do not deny my experience.
 
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Nancy

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Please do not deny my experience.

I might not have that gift but, the Word does say "Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues" 1 Corinthians 14:39. This can be a confusing subject. I have always saw the tongues were for the folks who did not speak the same language as those who are spreading the gospel. But, just because I do not understand this "praying" in tongues does not mean I have a right to say it does not exist. I wish I had it! ♥
 
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Dave L

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I might not have that gift but, the Word does say "Therefore, my brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues" 1 Corinthians 14:39. This can be a confusing subject. I have always saw the tongues were for the folks who did not speak the same language as those who are spreading the gospel. But, just because I do not understand this "praying" in tongues does not mean I have a right to say it does not exist. I wish I had it! ♥
Paul said tongues would cease by the time John wrote Revelation, and they did. History proves this.
 

amadeus

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If tongues were for today, the entire church would experience them spontaneously as they did in Acts. But instead they are coached and learned. And sectarian, having a highly questionable history. Plus the other details I mentioned that prove them false.
The "entire church"... that is the entire real Church consists of all the various parts of the Body of Christ [I Cor 12:12]. They when they are where they need to be according to God will directly be subject to the Head which is Jesus rather than any ministers who have strayed from their calling by God or any who presumptuously have taught people in error. Yes, the histories as recorded by men are frequently in error as the interpretations of the scriptures have frequently been in error, but God is not in error and neither is His Son as the Head of the Body. Those truly following God and connected to the Head by the Holy Spirit always are NOT questionable. You speak of the false ones, which exist, but I speak of the true ones who know, that is really know, God: Each part of the "entire Church" [the entire Body of Christ] fitly, that is properly, joined together...

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love" Eph 4:15-16
 
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Dave L

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The "entire church"... that is the entire real Church consists of all the various parts of the Body of Christ [I Cor 12:12]. They when they are where they need to be according to God will directly be subject to the Head which is Jesus rather than any ministers who have strayed from their calling by God or any who presumptuously have taught people in error. Yes, the histories as recorded by men are frequently in error as the interpretations of the scriptures have frequently been in error, but God is not in error and neither is His Son as the Head of the Body. Those truly following God and connected to the Head by the Holy Spirit always are NOT questionable. You speak of the false ones, which exist, but I speak of the true ones who know, that is really know, God: Each part of the "entire Church" [the entire Body of Christ] fitly, that is properly, joined together...

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love" Eph 4:15-16
Nothing in Pentecostalism aligns with Acts. They began with their misunderstanding of tongues and built doctrine around it. Once you understand what the bible says, you can easily spot it. But you will never understand while reading through their framework for interpretation.
 

Ezra

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“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith [faithfulness],” (Galatians 5:22)
produced in us by the spirit given to us when saved
 
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Ezra

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Nothing in Pentecostalism aligns with Acts. They began with their misunderstanding of tongues and built doctrine around it. Once you understand what the bible says, you can easily spot it. But you will never understand while reading through their framework for interpretation.
dont tell them that lol
 
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amadeus

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Nothing in Pentecostalism aligns with Acts. They began with their misunderstanding of tongues and built doctrine around it. Once you understand what the bible says, you can easily spot it. But you will never understand while reading through their framework for interpretation.
Again you are generalizing according to your own established conclusions. You speak of Pentecostalism and while I do understand, I believe, your meaning and your complaint, yet you are again lumping a lot of people together into some shared or common some evil with no inkling of God [no vision] when in fact they are also individuals even as the members of other named physical organizations [Baptist (various), Presbyterian, Methodists, Mormon, JW, Catholic, etc.] are individuals. Some have a real vision although still as through a glass darkly, while others may have no real vision at all. It is not for us to sort them all out.

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

The "then face to face" vision is coming to some as they trust in and lean upon God!

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil." Prov 3:5-7