1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured When is 'Speaking in Tongues', true versus false.

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Hobie, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Hobie

    Hobie Member

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    We find that the scripture shows us that it did occur, but how can a Christian tell if 'Speaking in Tongues' is being given by the Holy Spirit or it has come by a false spirit. Just because a person starts to mutter, mumble or shout unknown 'words' doesn't necessarily mean that they are being given them by the Holy Spirit. People with dementia, or drunks and the insane mumble and shout unknown words, are they being given spiritual gifts of speaking in tongues. Of course not, so how can one tell if the source is from the Holy Spirit, or from another origin.

    There are many references to speaking in tongues in the Bible, and we find the most about tongues are Acts 2 and I Corinthians 12-14. Now, you have to understand that at the time there were Jews and non-Jews who came to Jerusalem and from nearby regions who spoke another languages. To communicate with others with different languages, the early Christians needed to have been given a gift so they could understand the Gospel, and the scripture clearly shows that happening. There are many times being able to speak to others in their own tongue or language was very important as we see in the instance when Paul addressed the Jews to give them a understanding of who he was.

    Acts 22
    1 Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.
    2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)
    3 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.

    Now in Acts 2 when the Apostles speak in tongues it makes if very clear why and what they were speaking.

    Acts 2
    1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

    The key part here is there were coming to Jerusalem, 'Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.' We clearly see the purpose and the actual use of speaking in tongues, it was not just babbling or muttering of foolish nonsense, it had a specific purpose and directed for the understanding of those from other languages and lands, as they heard 'speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.'

    6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
    7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
    8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
    9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
    10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
    11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

    So speaking nonsensical words and utterances with no one to understand or for no practical reason, is it spiritually the same as the speaking in tongues given to the apostles and the early church.

    Keep in mind it happened in the early church, the deception of Montanism known by its adherents as the 'New Prophecy', and its followers claimed the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. They spoke in ecstatic visions and utterances and claimed they received the prophetic gift from the prophets. It originated in Phrygia, and spread rapidly to other regions in the Roman Empire and persisted in some isolated places into the 6th century. It was a false speaking in tongues, and was recognized as such, yet spread everywhere and fooled many Christians till it was stamped out.
     
  2. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    734
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Tongues are true when the person has been born again of the Spirit of Christ. IOW been baptized in the Spirit. One key prerequisite is repentance from all sin.

    Tongues are false when the person has never repented of all sin, and thus has not received the Holy Spirit in the first place. For me I can tell when someone is speaking in copied-what-they've-heard tongues that are not true.

    The New Covenant of the first century is still going strong, and will not end until the maker of the covenant comes again and after we've received the new heaven and new earth and we are living in His presence.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
    Pearl, "ByGrace" and 101G like this.
  3. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    734
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Sorry, but you don't know what you are talking about, and neither did MacArthur when he taught it. Your interpretation of Acts 2 flies directing in contradiction to 1 Corinthians 14:2. The devout Jews heard supernaturally what was being said, just as what happens with the gift of interpretation of tongues, which is what they received. Read it again and focus on the "hearing." Each devout Jew of different languages HEARD the disciples (all of them) speaking in their own different tongue. To the mockers it just sounded like gibberish, and ungodly mockers today disgrace themselves with their blasphemy against a gift of God.
     
  4. Hobie

    Hobie Member

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    But the problem is, who makes that determination. Scripture, on the other hand, is sure and teaches us that tongues are genuine languages. They are not meaningless sounds, or ecstatic gibberish. Look at what scripture says.

    1 Corinthians 14:26-27
    26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
    27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

    You see what it says, 'Let all things be done unto edifying.... and let one interpret'. As anyone can 'claim' they are speaking in tongues, but if it is not to edify and for understanding, then it can be false or of a unholy source....

    And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God
     
    bbyrd009 likes this.
  5. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    734
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Don't you see that the languages cannot be understood WITHOUT the supernatural gift of interpretation of tongues. Verse 2 tells us why? "NO MAN CAN UNDERSTAND THEM," besides the fact that they are not for preaching to man, but speaking to God. Your tone in the OP is a prime example of why in verse 22 tongues are a "sign to the unbeliever." It is not a positive sign, but as shown in verse 21 it is a negative judgment. You are saying they are understood. But then why in verse 23 would they think you were crazy, or drunk as the mockers of Acts 2. They couldn't understand them, and they were unbelievers so not gifted. Verse 23 also specifies two different groups. Outright unsaved unbelievers, and just uninformed. The uninformed are like you; they are Christians, but have listened to too much cessationist false doctrine that are clueless as to the rules of covenants. Nothing inside a covenant ends or ceases forever until the covenant, itself, ends. Are you part of the New Covenant of Christ or not?
     
  6. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    734
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What has never occurred to you is that 1 Corinthians 14 shows the difference between the SIGN of tongues, and the GIFT of diverse kinds of tongues. Both are called speaking in tongues, but one is appropriate for use in the congregation, and the other isn't, but only for prayer and praise privately.

    The gift of diverse kinds of tongues is what the verse you are talking about is referring to. It must be interpreted for edification, and limited to only 2-3. It is the "prayer and praise language" to God, that is not for use in the congregation because it doesn't require interpretation because God understands it. It is not for man. That is not to say that someone with the gift of interpretation of tongues couldn't interpret them if they heard someone speaking the sign of tongues. On the Day of Pentecost, 120 were speaking in the sign of tongues - to God - praise, and only the devout Jews who already belonged to God were given the understanding. Also there was no limitation as to the number of speakers as there are with the gift. In church, and only at special times when everyone present is a believer can there be a time for everyone in the room to lift up praise God in tongues as a choir as directed by the pastor, everyone focusing on God and not each other. It is only for a few minutes and does not interfere with any other part of the service.

    1 Corinthians 12:30 shows that the gift of tongues is not given to everyone, nor is the gift of interpretation of tongues. They are like offices to the church. However Mark 16:16-18 shows that the sign of our personal prayer and praise language is given to ALL WHO BELIEVE, and are baptized. That is to every believer, whereas the gift is not.

    Paul is not talking about true tongues verses false tongues like you and MacArthur think. That is false, and verging on blasphemy. The gift of tongues with interpretation is equal to prophecy and is for the Church. Seeing as the sign of our prayer language is given to ALL, that is why 1 Corinthians 14:23 says, if ALL speak in tongues and an unsaved person or an uninformed believer comes in, they are going to think you are crazy. That is what the Corinthians were doing. Everyone was speaking in the sign of tongues all together and not letting the higher gifts be heard. There must be order and edification. And the person KNOWN to have the office/gift of interpretation of tongues must be present that day; otherwise the one with a word from God in tongues must keep silent. BTW, verse 6 shows what the interpretation of the gift of diverse kinds of tongues is saying.

    Mark 16:16-18 - SIGN - prayer and praise TO God - given to all who believe
    1 Cor. 12 - GIFT - messages FROM God - given to a few who have been given the gift of diverse kinds of tongues - and MUST be interpreted.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
    Heart2Soul and "ByGrace" like this.
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    Tongues today are not even close to the originals. If they were genuine, the whole church would speak in them, not just a couple of sects with questionable origins. Moreover, today's tongues are learned and coached. The originals were spontaneous and came only through an apostle's hands, or through the two outpourings. Also, first century tongue speakers were edified because they knew what they were saying. Today's tongue speakers do not know what they are saying.
     
  8. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    734
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Another post from the "uninformed."
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    Nancy likes this.
  10. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    734
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Satan counterfeits the real, not three dollar bills, and many making the comparison fall into his trap being uninformed.
     
  11. Hobie

    Hobie Member

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Very true, and not only are they 'questionable' if they are being learned/coached, then I think it shows the source, and its not from God.
     
    bbyrd009 and Dave L like this.
  12. Hobie

    Hobie Member

    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    38
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Now if we look back at the 'questionable' sources, we see the false kind by those who were led by Montanus who was a just recent convert into the early church when he first began speaking in tongues and 'prophesying'. He had two female colleagues, Prisca and Maximilla, who likewise claimed the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. They spoke in ecstatic visions and claimed they received the prophetic gift from the prophets and to have been part of a line of prophetic succession stretching all the way back to Agabus and the daughters of Philip the Evangelist. In time, the it spread from Montanus' native Phrygia across the Christian world.[exc..Tabbernee, William. Prophets and Gravestones: An Imaginative History of Montanists and Other Early Christians. pp. 37, 40-41, 89.]

    Now this speaking in tongue by the Montanist in the early church was quickly seen for what it was...

    "Some of those who heard his spurious utterances at that time were indignant, and they rebuked him as one that was possessed, and that was under the control of a demon, and was led by a deceitful spirit, and was distracting the multitude; and they forbade him to talk, remembering the distinction drawn by the Lord and his warning to guard watchfully against the coming of false prophets....Thus by artifice, or rather by such a system of wicked craft, the devil, devising destruction for the disobedient, and being unworthily honored by them, secretly excited and inflamed their understandings which had already become estranged from the true faith. And he stirred up besides two women, and filled them with the false spirit, so that they talked wildly and unreasonably and strangely, like the person already mentioned. And the spirit pronounced them blessed as they rejoiced and gloried in him, and puffed them up by the magnitude of his promises.... For the faithful in Asia met often in many places throughout Asia to consider this matter, and examined the novel utterances and pronounced them profane, and rejected the heresy, and thus these persons were expelled from the Church and debarred from communion"...Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Second Series: Volume I, Oak Harbor, WA: Logos, 1997, Book V. Chapter XVI.

    So there was a tremendous example of the wrong kind of speaking in tongues so that it disappeared from the early church as they saw what kind of spirit was directing these people, so we need to see how it was identified and understood for what it was, and then ask how has it got back into the church?

    And this commandment have we from
     
  13. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

    Messages:
    24,659
    Likes Received:
    7,931
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States Minor Outlying Islands
    Imo the same way "I'm saved, and going up to heaven when I die to become an immortal" did, by making nahash into pastors and reading Scripture in archaic languages, mostly
    Xenoglossy is alive and well though, happens all the time imo
     
  14. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    734
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    That is blasphemy, and you keep doing it. Where in the Bible does Paul compare false tongues to true tongues? Nowhere if you know what he is saying. But you pretend to know and so does MacArthur.

    Did you even read my post to you? If you had you may have learned something and gotten out of the "uninformed" category.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
  15. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    924
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    But the Holy Spirit also said through Paul, that those who speak in tongues should speak one at a time and if there is no interpreter present, the one who speaks in tongues should be silent. (1 Cor. 14:28)
     
    Hobie likes this.
  16. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    924
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    1 Corinthians 14 also recommends prophecy over tongues. There is only ONE gift--it is the granting of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit. But there are different manifestations that show His presence. Tongues is wrongly termed "the gift of tongues". The ability of prophesying is also a manifestation of the Holy Spirit from within a believer. And it is one manifestation that attracts many more unbelievers to the flame than tongues, which Paul characterizes as a strengthener for the one who speaks in tongues but is not worth much to the Body unless there is an interpreter present.(1 Corinthians 14:5) On the other hand, prophecy in the Church leads to understanding. One great tragedy is that, because of petty squabbling and rivalry (which was already occurring in Paul's time) that particular manifestation of the Holy Spirit was being squashed--thus greatly grieving the Spirit of God. I'm fairly certain that is why the Holy Spirit moved Paul to write 1 Corinthians 13 (the "love chapter") and why he starts the 14th chapter with the admonition, "Let love be your highest goal!"
     
  17. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,930
    Likes Received:
    924
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada

    One Bible teacher has likened the manifestations of the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit to the gift of a Swiss Army knife. There is ONE gift--the Swiss Army knife--BUT the manifestations of that gift can be seen as a small screwdriver, a large screwdriver, a bottle opener, a toothpick, etc.
     
  18. Anthony D'Arienzo

    Anthony D'Arienzo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    915
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Hobie,
    No one speaks in tongues today,nobody.
    Tongues were languages, not rhyming sounds.
    Some mumble noises today making believe they are speaking something supernatural.
    This is a poor attempt to gain an assurance of salvation, and is used by people who are too lazy to study scripture and actually live and work for God.
    It is similar to a religious person praying a rosary bead to Mary...it is fruitless religion
     
    Dave L likes this.
  19. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,913
    Likes Received:
    1,479
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Addressing the OP only. tongues that is of God is one tongue, be it unknow, another/other tongue, or a new tongue, but the same tongue or spirit who give it.

    true or false tongue?
    A. unknown tongue. 1 Corinthians 14:2 "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries". this is a private setting and not in the Congergation.
    1 Corinthians 14:4 "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

    if one is prompted in the congergation, then, 1 Corinthians 14:13 "Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret". 1 Corinthians 14:19 "Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue".

    1 Corinthians 14:27 "If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
    1 Corinthians 14:28 "But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

    B. Other/Another Tongue. there is no need for an interpreter here, for the Spirit will interpret to the hearer, as was on the day of Pentecost. it was the Spirit who spoke and interpreted. Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance".
    Acts 2:7 "And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? let's see how, Acts 2:11 "Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God".
    if they heard they in their own tongues, then then there was no need for any interpertation. for God said that he will speak, Isaiah 28:11 "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people".

    C. New tongue. scripture, Mark 16:17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues". no interpreter here is need in sound of understanding, but yes, in Spiritual understanding. the tongue is any language, english, french, german, arabic, hebrew or greek ... ect. but the same tongue, (of God), as in the other two, but we have aspect, or attributes of the same tongue, but with diffrent results. a new tongue is the same language, but with new revelation. hence the teacher/pastor or lay person of a church/flock, can speak knowledge and understanding from God. supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 12:7 "But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
    1 Corinthians 12:8 "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit". word of Wisdom, "understanding", and the word of Knowledge. knowledge and understanding is what a pastor do in the Church, Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding". for there is only one Pastor in the Church ... and that's the Lord Jesus.

    one can read a scripture for years, and someone say one thing on the scripture, a whole new revelation is now known of that one scripture. so a new tongue brings new revelation by knowledge and understanding of the scriptures, by the Spirit.

    it's the same tongue, (the Spirit), but with diffrent aspect, or attributes.

    Just as there is one body, but many members. but one Spirit who is all in all.

    PICJAG.
     
  20. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    734
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Like him, I would like you to read the answer to your question that I already wrote - #6. Hope it helps.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019
Loading...