When is the last time you told a lie?

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TLHKAJ

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You think that wise? And you become immediately suspicious to the Gestapo raiding your house?
You are putting the Jews lives in danger.
It depends on how God leads. God is able to work miracles and doesn't really need us to lie in order to move on our behalf.

I'm not saying I've never lied. But I don't go out of my way to tell an untruth. I take God's Word seriously.
 
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amadeus

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Also, Abraham lied when he said Sarah was his sister. King David lied to Ahimelech. But, they were also human and, did what they thought prudent at the time. Not sure I'd say they did not have faith in God but just...took an action for the better good?
Our intentions and our actual knowledge do make a difference. This is again why final judgement does belong to God. Who else is a competent judge for every case?
 

Nancy

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Our intentions and our actual knowledge do make a difference. This is again why final judgement does belong to God. Who else is a competent judge for every case?

"Who else is a competent judge for every case?"
I wouldn't want it any other way brother, true justice, amen!
 

amadeus

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The person could have held their tongue. Their home would be searched regardless. But in cases such as that, a person's automatic response might be to lie. I don't think that is a case of habitual and willful sinning.
Yes, but consider the case of Corrie Ten Boom and her sister Betsy during WWII. Corrie did lie to protect the Jews or her family, but Betsy would not. The tongue... hmmm? Who controls our tongue?

Corrie was a great woman of God, but she learned a whole lot from her sister's example before Betsy died in the concentration camp where they both were imprisoned. Corrie always prayed for the mistreated prisoners, but Betsy also prayed for the guards who mistreated them. That was a hard thing for Corrie to learn...
 

Josho

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Also, Abraham lied when he said Sarah was his sister. King David lied to Ahimelech. But, they were also human and, did what they thought prudent at the time. Not sure I'd say they did not have faith in God but just...took an action for the better good?

I was also thinking about Abraham, when reading through this thread.

I think probably everyone has lied at some point in their life, some with the intention of protecting others, some with the intention of protecting themselves, some with the intention of saving their jobs, then there are those that unknowingly lie and then there are of course totally bad lies.

It goes to show us that we are all still not perfect, even David and Abraham weren't perfect, it doesn't mean we should lie though, we hear of some courageous Christians in the violently persecuted nations who are not afraid to proclaim Jesus in front of Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu extremists threatening to send Christians to jail or even kill Christians and in Iran I have also heard of Christian women and yes there are even Christian men being threatened with rape, if they don't renounce their faith in Jesus.

Sometimes it takes a lot of courage to tell the truth.
 

DuckieLady

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I told my Dad he was looking sharp the other day. I wanted to cheer him up. He had been a little sad recently. Struggles at work apparently. He's a good man but gets down sometimes.
He didn't really look sharp but I wanted to give him a boost. He looked ok. Nothing special.
You thinks lies like this are evil? I believe lies help life run more smoothly. And can even cheer others up. The lies have to have some truth though. To be believable.

I don't remember. I know one that we're all probably guilty of is "I'm okay" or "I'm fine" when we're really not. I downplay things at times. I think lying is not okay, and we usually consider that to be scripturally correct and limit it to that. However, I think in the instance of protecting life, acting in accordance with faith in God to protect his purpose, then it is acceptable.

We see this in Joshua 2. The two spies sent by Joshua attend the house of a prostitute named Rahab. In faith and fear of God, she takes them under her wing and hides the men at her home. The king says basically, these spies are there, go get them. Rahab is questioned about the men.

This is her response:

Verse 4.“Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, they left. I don’t know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them.” 6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.)

Rahab is later mentioned as an example her faith in Hebrews 11 and how it saved her life. "By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient."
 

saintiaint

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I don't remember. I know one that we're all probably guilty of is "I'm okay" or "I'm fine" when we're really not. I downplay things at times. I think lying is not okay, and we usually consider that to be scripturally correct and limit it to that. However, I think in the instance of protecting life, acting in accordance with faith in God to protect his purpose, then it is acceptable.

We see this in Joshua 2. The two spies sent by Joshua attend the house of a prostitute named Rahab. In faith and fear of God, she takes them under her wing and hides the men at her home. The king says basically, these spies are there, go get them. Rahab is questioned about the men.

This is her response:

Verse 4.“Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. 5 At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, they left. I don’t know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them.” 6 (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.)

Rahab is later mentioned as an example her faith in Hebrews 11 and how it saved her life. "By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient."
I vaguely remember this story about Rahab . Thanks
 
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Nancy

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I was also thinking about Abraham, when reading through this thread.

I think probably everyone has lied at some point in their life, some with the intention of protecting others, some with the intention of protecting themselves, some with the intention of saving their jobs, then there are those that unknowingly lie and then there are of course totally bad lies.

It goes to show us that we are all still not perfect, even David and Abraham weren't perfect, it doesn't mean we should lie though, we hear of some courageous Christians in the violently persecuted nations who are not afraid to proclaim Jesus in front of Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu extremists threatening to send Christians to jail or even kill Christians and in Iran I have also heard of Christian women and yes there are even Christian men being threatened with rape, if they don't renounce their faith in Jesus.

Sometimes it takes a lot of courage to tell the truth.

Hi Josho, nice to see you on. No, of course we are not to lie : "God hates lying". And agreed, it does take a lot of courage to tell the truth, especially if trying to avoid embarrassment or to avoid hurting someone.
A couple weeks ago, a friend got a haircut. I thought it looked horrid :eek: and what I said to her was, "Oh you got your haircut! You must feel like a new person, doesn't it feel good?" So, maybe that was a lie of omission but, c'mon, didn't want to be mean and tell her how bad it looked...fine line I think. :)
 

Nancy

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Yes, but consider the case of Corrie Ten Boom and her sister Betsy during WWII. Corrie did lie to protect the Jews or her family, but Betsy would not. The tongue... hmmm? Who controls our tongue?

Corrie was a great woman of God, but she learned a whole lot from her sister's example before Betsy died in the concentration camp where they both were imprisoned. Corrie always prayed for the mistreated prisoners, but Betsy also prayed for the guards who mistreated them. That was a hard thing for Corrie to learn...

One of those things we can never forget. What a heartrending book that was, but also a book of great faith and courage, amen!
 

April_Rose

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I don't remember. I know one that we're all probably guilty of is "I'm okay" or "I'm fine" when we're really not. I downplay things at times. I think lying is not okay, and we usually consider that to be scripturally correct and limit it to that. However, I think in the instance of protecting life, acting in accordance with faith in God to protect his purpose, then it is acceptable.




Yeah well in cases like that it's because we don't want people to make big fusses over us if something is wrong.
 

DNB

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I told my Dad he was looking sharp the other day. I wanted to cheer him up. He had been a little sad recently. Struggles at work apparently. He's a good man but gets down sometimes.
He didn't really look sharp but I wanted to give him a boost. He looked ok. Nothing special.
You thinks lies like this are evil? I believe lies help life run more smoothly. And can even cheer others up. The lies have to have some truth though. To be believable.
Although you meant well, you would've done better addressing the real issue with him, to show that you're authentically willing to get your hands dirty and help him out. Otherwise, your feigned compliment could be construed as patronizing.
I don't believe that telling lies can solve an issue any better than wisely and diplomatically speaking the truth. Although, in our short-sightedness, a white lie appears as beneficial at the time, I'm rather confident that with a bit more thought, something more truthful will produce much better results.

For, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive, ...what if your father asked you 'how so?'.
 
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quietthinker

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I told my Dad he was looking sharp the other day. I wanted to cheer him up. He had been a little sad recently. Struggles at work apparently. He's a good man but gets down sometimes.
He didn't really look sharp but I wanted to give him a boost. He looked ok. Nothing special.
You thinks lies like this are evil? I believe lies help life run more smoothly. And can even cheer others up. The lies have to have some truth though. To be believable.
All who believe in Jesus are to be resolved in putting away sin. Purity is the objective. God's people are to reflect the image of their Redeemer. It starts with the strong desire for righteousness.....and God will bring it to fruition. The scripture uses language like holy, harmless and undefiled and without spot and wrinkle. Any justification for sin ensures a crack in the armour and if maintained will ensure a downfall.
 

saintiaint

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Whilst I respect hardline "never tell a lie " views, I think , as I said before intention is the key.
To be totally transparent in a world that seeks to take advantage of weakness, is naive.
Not saying anything is tantamount to lying, if we know the truth.
Doctors used to not tell their patients they had terminal cancer. The intention was noble. For them not to become overly stressed or reactive. And other reasons of course.
Jesus knows our heart. If he knows we are lying for the wrong reason, we will suffer for it, sooner or later.
 

DuckieLady

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You know what I have realized after thinking about this, I didn't think I lied a lot because with usual relationships I really don't unless it's downplaying something to other people, but in an abusive relationship I have lied A LOT from everything to "Yes I can absolutely can make raita with vanilla yogurt" or "Yes I did do X and didn't forget" and I have ZERO remorse for it. I understood the consequences and I had to choose between walking on eggshells and lying or being honest and broken down to the point of losing my sanity.

You have to walk on eggshells a lot and you have to be extremely careful and abuse is worse to me than lying. So I don't feel bad. Like at all. I'm not sorry.
 

DNB

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You know what I have realized after thinking about this, I didn't think I lied a lot because with usual relationships I really don't unless it's downplaying something to other people, but in an abusive relationship I have lied A LOT from everything to "Yes I can absolutely can make raita with vanilla yogurt" or "Yes I did do X and didn't forget" and I have ZERO remorse for it. I understood the consequences and I had to choose between walking on eggshells and lying or being honest and broken down to the point of losing my sanity.

You have to walk on eggshells a lot and you have to be extremely careful and abuse is worse to me than lying. So I don't feel bad. Like at all. I'm not sorry.
I understand, likewise, ...my only contention would be, to what you had said, and to myself, is that there's probably a better way to have handled such confrontation. It doesn't take much thought, depending on the recipient of the lie, to see how such a fabricated resolve can escalate the issue if the recipient dares to press your response any further?
Meaning, whatever we are trying to achieve with a lie , no matter how benign or self-preserving that it may be, I imagine that with a little more thought, a more sincere and comprehensive solution can be achieved (potentially less consequential all around).
 

amigo de christo

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"Who else is a competent judge for every case?"
I wouldn't want it any other way brother, true justice, amen!
Technically abraham did not lie . She was his sister . he just didnt tell the whole truth that she was also his wife .
 
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saintiaint

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We do lie more than we realise. Just we don't monitor ourselves enough. We strive to make a good impression.
Can you say with all conviction, that your resumes, current or past, are/were absolute truth? Dates, ...or perhaps what you didn't say. That you were on really bad terms with two previous bosses.
If your job is politician or sales, lying is part of your job description. Exaggeration and conflating your own good points. Minimising your faults. That's deception.
No one can really say they are totally free of deception. It helps us survive.
 

DuckieLady

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I understand, likewise, ...my only contention would be, to what you had said, and to myself, is that there's probably a better way to have handled such confrontation. It doesn't take much thought, depending on the recipient of the lie, to see how such a fabricated resolve can escalate the issue if the recipient dares to press your response any further?
Meaning, whatever we are trying to achieve with a lie , no matter how benign or self-preserving that it may be, I imagine that with a little more thought, a more sincere and comprehensive solution can be achieved (potentially less consequential all around).
I would have to say there are no right answers with narcissists anyway but as far as severity, they don't have a meter to regulate how to react, they just react without a filter. so you have the option of no reaction and a reaction regardless
 

DNB

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I would have to say there are no right answers with narcissists anyway but as far as severity, they don't have a meter to regulate how to react, they just react without a filter. so you have the option of no reaction and a reaction regardless
Yes, certain people are impossible to deal with - they're not looking for peace or mutual benefits, but entirely self gratification. ...but, that alone is their Achilles heel. I'm not saying that, for the most part, I've handled situations successfully in the past, but only that when I resorted to methods that lacked integrity, I looked back and thought of ways that would've been more effective, both for myself and the culprit.
BTW, sorry to hear about the bad relationship that you suffered, again, some people cannot be given the benefit of the doubt and one must resort to either unconventional, or very extreme measures when dealing with them. Glad that you got rid of him, some people are unworthy to be in relationships.
 
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quietthinker

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You know what I have realized after thinking about this, I didn't think I lied a lot because with usual relationships I really don't unless it's downplaying something to other people, but in an abusive relationship I have lied A LOT from everything to "Yes I can absolutely can make raita with vanilla yogurt" or "Yes I did do X and didn't forget" and I have ZERO remorse for it. I understood the consequences and I had to choose between walking on eggshells and lying or being honest and broken down to the point of losing my sanity.

You have to walk on eggshells a lot and you have to be extremely careful and abuse is worse to me than lying. So I don't feel bad. Like at all. I'm not sorry.
No doubt many have wondered about this including myself. It is easier to lie when we think it is convenient. Problem is, we don't see the whole picture. We only see and think of our own suffering or perceived suffering. Behind the scenes the Devil goads God; ha, he says, so you call these your people? they are nothing but self centred maggots who are willing to willingly lie and justify it at the first sign of pressure...they are pathetic and everyone knows it.
.....and God suffers also because we dishonour him....we who claim to trust him; sing his praises loudly and boast how much we believe....spitting out the truck loads of righter than thou theology.

We forget that the lion's mouth was shut for Daniel and the flames were harmless to his three mates who went into the furnace.

On thinking about these things I cringe with embarrassment about my own record but also resolve within myself that no justification for lying is to enter my heart; that I will walk a straight path in and with the strength of my Redeemer.
 
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