When is the last time you told a lie?

[lforrest]

I thought it better to die than to lie. Until my grandmother had dementia and kept asking to see her parents or little boy, whom had already died an old man.

How would it feel to be told everyone you loved, and that you still remember is dead? Or to let them assume they've been abandoned. And to relive that turmoil anew every five minutes?

 

[April_Rose]

I thought it better to die than to lie. Until my grandmother had dementia and kept asking to see her parents or little boy, whom had already died an old man.

How would it feel to be told everyone you loved, and that you still remember is dead? Or to let them assume they've been abandoned. And to relive that turmoil anew every five minutes?

Wow, that's sad.

 

[quietthinker]

I don't know such a person. I have only talked to Messianic Jews, but not about that topic specifically.

The long and short of it is they don't believe in a devil. They believe God orchestrates everything good and bad. The understanding of this gives a new perspective to some of the statements in the Old Testament.

Going to a synagogue and speaking with a Rabbi re this would be an interesting experience.

 

[marks]

I thought it better to die than to lie. Until my grandmother had dementia and kept asking to see her parents or little boy, whom had already died an old man.

How would it feel to be told everyone you loved, and that you still remember is dead? Or to let them assume they've been abandoned. And to relive that turmoil anew every five minutes?

When my mother in law had a stroke, she forgot that her other daughter had died from cancer 7 years before. We quickly learned that mentioning Karen's death would cause that fresh grief! Realizing the anguish she was experiencing even caused me to wonder if that wasn't cruel! But the truth was that she had never recovered from Karen's death, and her stroke has wiped it away from her mind.

But what to tell her? We got creative. "She couldn't be here today." "I couldn't get in touch with her, but I'll be seeing her later." Like that.

Much love!

 

[April_Rose]

When my mother in law had a stroke, she forgot that her other daughter had died from cancer 7 years before. We quickly learned that mentioning Karen's death would cause that fresh grief! Realizing the anguish she was experiencing even caused me to wonder if that wasn't cruel! But the truth was that she had never recovered from Karen's death, and her stroke has wiped it away from her mind.

But what to tell her? We got creative. "She couldn't be here today." "I couldn't get in touch with her, but I'll be seeing her later." Like that.

Much love!

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[saintiaint]

I thought it better to die than to lie. Until my grandmother had dementia and kept asking to see her parents or little boy, whom had already died an old man.

How would it feel to be told everyone you loved, and that you still remember is dead? Or to let them assume they've been abandoned. And to relive that turmoil anew every five minutes?

Sometimes the game of life requires us to stretch the truth. For the benefit of someone like your grandmother. It's an act of kindness, not a violation of God's laws.

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus seems to [Matthew 4:1-11, also Luke 4:1-13].

yeah...Jesus broke the mould. It wasn't until Jesus that we learn't who this underhanded figure is.....he identifies the dark side contrary to what the Jews believed.

 

[quietthinker]

yeah...Jesus broke the mould. It wasn't until Jesus that we learn't who this underhanded figure is.....he identifies the dark side contrary to what the Jews believed.

Do you understand what the implications of this is Sabertooth?

 

[quietthinker]

@ Sabertooth, Well it basically means that the references in the OT that make it appear that God is behind certain killing is the the reflection of the view that the Hebrews had ie, that God is responsible for both the good and the bad....even the prophets held this view. When Jesus turned up he had views which were unprecedented. Regarding the matter of good and evil he identified Satan as the originator of evil.

In the story of Job, Job didn't know that it was Satan who was afflicting him.....neither did his friends. There are other references also which show the same principle.

Finally, there are many more things that can be said about this but they beg enquiry for without it any answers given are pointless.

 

[quietthinker]

Are you trying to make the case that His views were incorrect?

No, I'm saying one needs to understand how the Jews saw the element of evil if one is to get a handle on how the scripture writes on this stuff.

 

[amadeus]

The long and short of it is they don't believe in a devil. They believe God orchestrates everything good and bad. The understanding of this gives a new perspective to some of the statements in the Old Testament.

Going to a synagogue and speaking with a Rabbi re this would be an interesting experience.

Satan, the adversary or simply... the left hand of God!

 

[amadeus]

Do you believe that, or are you just boiling down the other poster's statement?

What do I believe? I believe that every man born of woman throughout his course [his lifetime] works either "for" God or "with" God to accomplish men's part in God's overall plan. Those working "with" God should be the ones paying close attention to God's perfect will for a situation. This should include anyone who really has been "born again" (born from above). [I purposely used the word, should, because of what I see in that respect.]

The ones not working "with" Him are working "for" God anyway, many times [or always?] accomplishing the curses which people have brought upon themselves according to God's Word. These would be working in or as the Left Hand of God or for Satan:

"And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah." II Sam 24:1

"And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel." I Chron 21:1

 

[amigo de christo]

What defiles a man proceeds out from the heart. He who is truly born anew, speaks from the new heart. Not a stretch, all within His promises. A Christian is not one who practices, but simply is. It is the old man that is a lier, a killer, and a thief, for he follows his master and speaks the things of his master.
That is why we are to put him to death. Give him a burrial, put him 6 feet down, and celebrate the Goodness of The Lord.

Yes indeed . let us have no conversation with our old man . Rather , let us mortify the deeds of the flesh by the POWER of the SPIRIT .
Praise the glorious Lord . Be ye holy for I am Holy .

 

[quietthinker]

Satan, the adversary or simply... the left hand of God!

Satan was see like we might seen the public prosecutor.....the accuser.

 

[amadeus]

So, do you see Satan as a willful tool of God or an unwitting one?

Or perhaps some man in that role named as Satan as Peter was named Satan by Jesus? Which one is worse in the eyes of God, the unbeliever who performs or instigates the curses, or the believer in a lapse who does the same?

"Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" Matt 18:7

And then the measuring is to be done as per...

"But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more." Luke 12:48

 

[quietthinker]

Jesus wasn't addressing Peter. He was addressing Satan who was manipulating Peter, an unwitting participant.

If that were true, God wouldn't have created Hell just for him.
Jesus said,
"Depart from Me, you cursed,
into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:..." Matthew 25:41 NKJV

Hell is a whole other subject to explore. Consider this, If God is consistent ie, as in the revealing of himself in Jesus then 'Hell' as it is understood as a place of torment for eternity doesn't fit into the equation.

 

[Sabertooth]

(You realize that the argument that the Devil does not exist or that he is God's "sock puppet" is way off-topic for a thread that is intended to question the ethics of lying, don't you?)

Moved topic to Which Team Is The Devil Playing For...?

 

[amadeus]

Jesus wasn't addressing Peter. He was addressing Satan who was manipulating Peter, an unwitting participant.

Is that the belief or knowledge you received through the Holy Spirit?

Do you always know correctly every interpretation of every verse of written scripture? If your answer is, no, then what if you are wrong in this one? If, however, your answer is, yes, should everyone who disagrees back away from the discussion?

Of course there is also the possibility that you don't know if your answer is, no or yes. I don't believe you are going that way. Am I wrong?

 

[Sabertooth]

Is that the belief or knowledge you received through the Holy Spirit?

This derail topic has been moved to Which Team Is The Devil Playing For...?

 

[Sabertooth]

Remember, this is the OP topic of this thread,

I told my Dad he was looking sharp the other day. I wanted to cheer him up. He had been a little sad recently. Struggles at work apparently. He's a good man but gets down sometimes.
He didn't really look sharp but I wanted to give him a boost. He looked ok. Nothing special.
You thinks lies like this are evil? I believe lies help life run more smoothly. And can even cheer others up. The lies have to have some truth though. To be believable.