Luke 14
[sup]27[/sup] And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
What do you think?
[sup]27[/sup] And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
What do you think?
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No more than this passage...Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.
(Luk 12:33)
This is a command of Jesus to his little flock. Are you doing it Prentis?? ...different dispensation.
Prentis perhaps someday you will find yourself in the age of grace where Paul reveals to the Church/Christ's Body such gems as...
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
(Col 2:9-10)
With all this freely given, what treasure compares? We sacrifice out of love not in order to merit.
Can we have the treasure in heaven without laying our riches there? Can we have the heavenly kingdom without leaving behind what we have on this earth?
As I am saying, Christ in us is the Great treasure Who is all in all in which the fulness of the Godhead dwelleth bodily. THIS, every believer has...an unspeakable gift. If you think there is something greater outside of Christ...go for it!
To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
(Col 1:27)
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in Him, which is the head of all principality and power:
(Col 2:9-10)
And if we are complete in Him what treasure more are you speaking of?
Paul's emphasis was for Christ to be all in all .Your emphasis, Prentis is on the word 'YOU'. Read your last line which is typical..."
You made a first step to follow? Good for you... What are you doing today? What are you doing NOW to give yourself to the service of the Lord?"
Paul most definitely states that the believer already has Christ living in him ...and more than a 'seed' as you say, but as a living dynamic sanctifying Savior.
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.(Gal 2:20) and
Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
(2Co 4:10-11)
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
(Rom 8:11)
Did Jesus tell the rich young ruler "I will leave everything I have and come and save you" or does he tell him 'YOU come and follow me'?
The focus IS on the YOU, because God will hold his end, but you must hold yours. There is no question as to whether God will give himself to save us, but the question is will we give ourselves that he might save us?
Paul speaks of the life of Christ in him, yes... And this life he has received by lip service? I don't think he did, or would agree. Paul died that Christ might live...
What I understand from what you're saying is that we get a freebie and we can live without having to go through the death. Rather through our death, we receive the life that Christ paid for by his death. Man can only operate on one nature... For the new to be fully functioning, the old has to die. A woman is only free of duty to her husband after he dies, and the believer is free from the power of the old nature when it dies... In this life! Then it becomes PRACTICALLY true that 'it is no longer I who lives, but Christ lives in me.
Basically it comes down to this; if we don't want to deny the power of the gospel, we must agree that then our being crucified with Christ must have the effect it had for Christ; newness of life, walking in new power. Otherwise we are saying on the one hand that we are crucified with Christ and on the other that we really aren't.
Prentise, I am going to post a scripture that I think you are familiar with and ask for a simple answer.
4 But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much,5 that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!)6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus.7 So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God.9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it.10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.
Eph 2:4-10 (NLT)
With exception to verse ten, in this context of scripture is Paul speaking in present tense or past tense?
To be honest, I feel like your springing a trap. You already know what you're going to try and say with this scripture... And I get the impression you want me to nod, 'yes, past tense' so that you can prove it. Am I not getting what your doing, maybe?
Yes, it is past tense.
And the people are abiding. God saved them from the current corruption, that they might walk in newness of life... Now they must be faithful to the end... As it says, "he who perseveres to the end, he shall be saved"... And if they do, they will spend eternity ruling and reigning with Christ.
Otherwise why does it say 'to he who overcomes...'? Overcomes what, since some say there is nothing to do on our part?
Did Jesus tell the rich young ruler "I will leave everything I have and come and save you" or does he tell him 'YOU come and follow me'?
The focus IS on the YOU, because God will hold his end, but you must hold yours. There is no question as to whether God will give himself to save us, but the question is will we give ourselves that he might save us?
Paul speaks of the life of Christ in him, yes... And this life he has received by lip service? I don't think he did, or would agree. Paul died that Christ might live...
What I understand from what you're saying is that we get a freebie and we can live without having to go through the death. Rather through our death, we receive the life that Christ paid for by his death. Man can only operate on one nature... For the new to be fully functioning, the old has to die. A woman is only free of duty to her husband after he dies, and the believer is free from the power of the old nature when it dies... In this life! Then it becomes PRACTICALLY true that 'it is no longer I who lives, but Christ lives in me.
Basically it comes down to this; if we don't want to deny the power of the gospel, we must agree that then our being crucified with Christ must have the effect it had for Christ; newness of life, walking in new power. Otherwise we are saying on the one hand that we are crucified with Christ and on the other that we really aren't.
Are you seated with Christ now?
This isn't another masked debate between the principles of Socialism and Imperialism-Capitalism or the idea of nations, is it?
Paul's Epistles are clear that those in Christ's Church have the duty of charity, but selling all one has there is no such requirement in order to fulfill bearing one's cross to follow Christ Jesus. If this were not so Christ Jesus and His Apostles wouldn't have founded His literal Church on this earth, nor with that foundation being started in the Christian west among nations.
It is not about a rule, not all sell all.... We are not all carnally the same... But we are all spiritually the same, ie, we must all GIVE UP everything, holding on to nothing, being willing...
For one, that means leave everything he can't bring with him to go live with the brethren... For another, it means to open up his house to the brethren. The common denominator is that those who are Christ's all give up their old life driven by their own desires to a communal life driven by the presence of God among them.