When will the "sudden destruction" from which "they will not escape" referenced in 1 Thess 5:2-3 occur and what is the scope of it?

[Spiritual Israelite]

Or, maybe there is?:

The Day Of Christ vs Day of LORD vs Day of God

I read that and don't find your argument to be even slightly convincing. Sorry. I see no basis whatsoever for differentiating between the phrases "the day of the Lord", "the day of Christ" and "the day of God". They are all just slightly different ways of referring to the same thing.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

OF course we can respectfully disagree, or I'm not in the conversation.

You said in your post that you were interested to see if anyone seen it a different way. I'm going to show you that different way. All of us who believe in the rapture see it differently, but we all agree the resurrection/rapture Paul spoke of is a different coming of the Lord that the "Coming as a thief in the night/the Second Coming."

What I said was this:

So, if anyone is reading this and has the view that 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 are not speaking of the same event, I'd like to get your thoughts on what I said in the original post of this thread.

You're not really giving me your thoughts on what I said in the original post, you're just giving me your thoughts on how you understand the term "the day of the Lord" in contrast to "the day of Christ" and "the day of God".

Can you tell me when exactly you believe the sudden destruction that Paul referenced will occur? I believe it will be on the day Christ returns. Do you disagree? If so, I'd like to know why. If you agree, then do you have any mortal unbelievers surviving that in light of what Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:10-12? That's what I'm really getting at. I'd like you to specifically address the points I made in the original post and tell me exactly why you either agree or disagree with them.

 

[Charlie24]

What I said was this:

So, if anyone is reading this and has the view that 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12 are not speaking of the same event, I'd like to get your thoughts on what I said in the original post of this thread.

You're not really giving me your thoughts on what I said in the original post, you're just giving me your thoughts on how you understand the term "the day of the Lord" in contrast to "the day of Christ" and "the day of God".

Can you tell me when exactly you believe the sudden destruction that Paul referenced will occur? I believe it will be on the day Christ returns. Do you disagree? If so, I'd like to know why. If you agree, then do you have any mortal unbelievers surviving that in light of what Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:10-12? That's what I'm really getting at. I'd like you to specifically address the points I made in the original post and tell me exactly why you either agree or disagree with them.

There are things that must be realized in order to understand the events that take place. That is what I'm doing, giving you the background to understand what I believe. I can tell you all day what I believe, but there is much explaining to be done to show you WHY I believe it.

For example, your question as to "the sudden destruction" Paul speaks of. It's not all on the day that Christ returns, that is the explaining I must do for you to understand what I believe.

The sudden destruction" is found in 1 Thes. 5:3

"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

This "sudden destruction" comes to Israel. It takes place at the mid-point of the Great Tribulation when the antichrist sits in the temple and declares himself to be God. This prophecy is directly pointed to Israel, with the characteristics of the unbelieving Gentiles at this time.

Through the signing of a 7 year agreement between Israel and the antichrist, (Dan. 9:27) Israel will dwell in "peace and safety, as Paul said. The "sudden destruction comes at the midpoint of the Tribulation when the anti-christ turns on Israel to destroy them. he breaks his covenant with them and now the antichrist is revealed to the world. His true intentions are now realized.

This is just an example of how prophecy must be seen as relating to Israel, and the rest of the world indirectly.

This "sudden destruction" is the day of Jacob's trouble. It's not just a day. it is a period of time that I told you about, The Day of the Lord. It's the time of the wrath of God poured out directly on Israel to bring them to Christ, and indirectly poured out on unbelieving Gentiles.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

There are things that must be realized in order to understand the events that take place. That is what I'm doing, giving you the background to understand what I believe. I can tell you all day what I believe, but there is much explaining to be done to show you WHY I believe it.

How does this address what I said, though? You don't seem interested in a discussion where we each specifically address what the other says. You only seem interested in sharing what you believe while not specifically addressing any of my points. That's not what I'm looking for in this thread.

For example, your question as to "the sudden destruction" Paul speaks of. It's not all on the day that Christ returns, that is the explaining I must do for you to understand what I believe.

The sudden destruction" is found in 1 Thes. 5:3

"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

This "sudden destruction" comes to Israel. It takes place at the mid-point of the Great Tribulation when the antichrist sits in the temple and declares himself to be God. This prophecy is directly pointed to Israel, with the characteristics of the unbelieving Gentiles at this time.

Through the signing of a 7 year agreement between Israel and the antichrist, (Dan. 9:27) Israel will dwell in "peace and safety, as Paul said. The "sudden destruction comes at the midpoint of the Tribulation when the anti-christ turns on Israel to destroy them. he breaks his covenant with them and now the antichrist is revealed to the world. His true intentions are now realized.

Paul said in relation to the sudden destruction that "they will not escape". What is your understanding of that statement? Do you have anyone in Israel escaping this sudden destruction or do you believe the entire nation will be destroyed? Where did Paul indicate that he was talking about the destruction of Israel there?

This is just an example of how prophecy must be seen as relating to Israel, and the rest of the world indirectly.

Paul was addressing the church in 1 Thess 4-5 and talked about how people in the church are in the spiritual light and everyone else is in spiritual darkness, so how are you concluding that it relates to Israel rather than the church and its enemies?

This "sudden destruction" is the day of Jacob's trouble. It's not just a day. it is a period of time that I told you about, The Day of the Lord. It's the time of the wrath of God poured out directly on Israel to bring them to Christ, and indirectly poured out on unbelieving Gentiles.

How exactly will it bring them to Christ when Paul indicated that "they will not escape"? How can they come to Christ if they can't escape and are all destroyed?

 

[ScottA]

You're ignoring the order that Paul actually stated, which is Christ first (happened long ago, obviously) and next in order are those who belong to Him when He comes again.

The following passage also makes it very clear that all of the dead in Christ will be resurrected AT THE SAME TIME.

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

How do you reconcile your view with what Paul taught here? He indicates here very clearly that one day "the Lord himself will come down from heaven" and then "the dead in Christ will rise first". That means the dead in Christ will be resurrected all at the same time when the Lord descends from heaven. After the dead in Christ rise then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in the air. Very simple.

It is indeed very simple, but you (and 2,000 years of Christendom) have not understood.

Christ Jesus is the apex of all these things, of whom He is "the First and the Last." Thus, just as the scriptures say that we "were" crucified with Christ, thus every part "did" also. Meaning, that likewise in the case of "the dead in Christ", they being those who were given the promise of salvation but died before salvation was attained in Christ-- when He died, they died, and when He resurrected from death, so did they. Therefore, it is written that we, "by no means precede those who are asleep"...even though we too "were" crucified with Him.

It is by this biblical fact that we "were" crucified with Christ that all these things are reconciled..."but each one in his own order."

Granted, by the nature of [this world], those most accustom to all things existing on a timeline, unlike God who "is the same yesterday, today, and forever"--it is very hard to even imagine these things all occurring "in Christ" and "with Christ"...and yet that is what is written. The explanation of which is, that: To those who were before salvation came, these things were anteroactive, while those who come after are retroactive. And it is for this reason that Paul also stressed the need for "rightly dividing the word of truth"--that is, before and after Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is indeed very simple, but you (and 2,000 years of Christendom) have not understood.

Christ Jesus is the apex of all these things, of whom He is "the First and the Last." Thus, just as the scriptures say that we "were" crucified with Christ, thus every part "did" also. In the case of "the dead in Christ", they being those who were given the promise of salvation but died before salvation was attained in Christ-- when He died, they died, and when He resurrected from death, so did they.

But, in 1 Thess 4:14-17 Paul was clearly talking about something that had not yet happened. Why are you acting as if what he wrote there had already happened when that is clearly not the case? He said the Lord Himself will come down from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise first. That's not something he would have said if it had already happened. He was very clearly speaking of a future event there.

Therefore, it is written that we, "by no means precede those who are asleep"...even though we too "were" crucified with Him.

It is by the fact that we "were" crucified with Christ that all these things are reconciled..."but each one in his own order."

Granted, by the nature of [this world], those most accustom to all things existing on a timeline, unlike God who "is the same yesterday, today, and forever"--it is very hard to even imagine these things all occurring "in Christ" and "with Christ"...and yet that is what is written. The explanation of which is, that: To those who were before salvation came, these things were anteroactive, while they are instead retroactive for those after salvation came. And it is for this reason that Paul also stressed the need for "rightly dividing the word of truth"--that is, before and after Christ.

Are you a full preterist? Do you believe in a future bodily coming of Jesus Christ from heaven?

 

[Charlie24]

How does this address what I said, though? You don't seem interested in a discussion where we each specifically address what the other says. You only seem interested in sharing what you believe while not specifically addressing any of my points. That's not what I'm looking for in this thread.



Paul said in relation to the sudden destruction that "they will not escape". What is your understanding of that statement? Do you have anyone in Israel escaping this sudden destruction or do you believe the entire nation will be destroyed? Where did Paul indicate that he was talking about the destruction of Israel there?


Paul was addressing the church in 1 Thess 4-5 and talked about how people in the church are in the spiritual light and everyone else is in spiritual darkness, so how are you concluding that it relates to Israel rather than the church and its enemies?


How exactly will it bring them to Christ when Paul indicated that "they will not escape"? How can they come to Christ if they can't escape and are all destroyed?

Nothing can be accomplished with all these questions thrown at once! I am directly answering your question, if you stick with only solving that question, the rest will come in short order.

But I'm afraid in reality you don't want to understand why I believe what I believe! The reason you will never understand why we believe in the rapture. It's very deep and requires quite a bit of explaining, so if you're not interested, neither am I.

 

[ScottA]

But, in 1 Thess 4:14-17 Paul was clearly talking about something that had not yet happened. Why are you acting as if what he wrote there had already happened when that is clearly not the case? He said the Lord Himself will come down from heaven and the dead in Christ will rise first. That's not something he would have said if it had already happened. He was very clearly speaking of a future event there.


Are you a full preterist? Do you believe in a future bodily coming of Jesus Christ from heaven?

You say "clearly" but you are not clear on it. Saying that it was "something that had not yet happened", is to also deny that we "were" crucified with Christ, having not yet been born.

So...understand rather that theses things are not according to men and their way of thinking, but according rather to God. In which case, it is indeed correctly and clearly stated as "were." Stop thinking as a man.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nothing can be accomplished with all these questions thrown at once! I am directly answering your question, if you stick with only solving that question, the rest will come in short order.

But I'm afraid in reality you don't want to understand why I believe what I believe! The reason you will never understand why we believe in the rapture. It's very deep and requires quite a bit of explaining, so if you're not interested, neither am I.

I am interested in a back and forth discussion where we actually address each other's points. But, if you're not able to do that in a way that isn't convoluted and difficult to follow, then I'm not interested in that. The truth is never so convoluted that only a select few can even understand it. That you are not able to explain what you believe in a more succinct way is quite telling, in my opinion.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Here is the passage I'm referencing with some surrounding verses for context:

No, Paul is telling the Believers in Jesus in Thessalonika that they are not of "The Dark" (Satan) that THAT DAY (DOTL/God's Wrath) should overtake you, because you are children of the Light (Jesus/God).

Meaning we will not be here. but God's Wrath will fall on The Wicked whilst they think they are in a great time of Peace & Safety. Th church will be raptured, that is what it means to not be here in THAT DAY.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You say "clearly" but you are not clear on it.

Yes, I am clear on it. It couldn't be more clear that he was talking about a future event.

Saying that it was "something that had not yet happened", is to also deny that we "were" crucified with Christ, having not yet been born.

You talk like someone who has been brainwashed. You think you're holier than thou and more spiritual than everyone, but you've been duped by false doctrine. Paul saying that Christ will come down from heaven and that the dead in Christ will rise is clearly a statement about the future. Otherwise, he would have said Christ has come down from heaven and the dead in Christ have risen. But, he didn't.

So...understand rather that theses things are not according to men and their way of thinking, but according rather to God. In which case, it is indeed correctly and clearly stated as "were." Stop thinking as a man.

Stop thinking that you are God or that you speak for Him.

 

[Charlie24]

I am interested in a back and forth discussion where we actually address each other's points. But, if you're not able to do that in a way that isn't convoluted and difficult to follow, then I'm not interested in that. The truth is never so convoluted that only a select few can even understand it. That you are not able to explain what you believe in a more succinct way is quite telling, in my opinion.

Did I answer your question on "the sudden destruction" or is there something else I need further explain on that particular question?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No, Paul is telling the Believers in Jesus in Thessalonika that they are not of "The Dark" (Satan) that THAT DAY (DOTL/God's Wrath) should overtake you, because you are children of the Light (Jesus/God).

Meaning we will not be here. but God's Wrath will fall on The Wicked whilst they think they are in a great time of Peace & Safety. Th church will be raptured, that is what it means to not be here in THAT DAY.

Yes, of course God's wrath will fall on the wicked and not on believers, but what is your understanding of THAT DAY exactly? When taking 2 Peter 3:10-12 into account as well, we can see that scripture teaches that the church will be caught up to meet the Lord on the day Christ returns while the wicked will all be destroyed. If you disagree with that, then please tell me how you interpret 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Did I answer your question on "the sudden destruction" or is there something else I need further explain on that particular question?

Not really. But, you made it clear that you can only answer one question at a time. Which isn't very efficient, but so be it. I'll go along with that. So, the question I would like you to answer at this point is where does Paul indicate in 1 Thess 5 that he is talking about the destruction of Israel? Is he not contrasting believers (those in spiritual light) and unbelievers (those in spiritual darkness) there? I know that was two questions, so feel free to just answer the first one. But, I asked the other one as something to consider when interpreting 1st Thessalonians 5.

 

[Charlie24]

Not really. But, you made it clear that you can only answer one question at a time. Which isn't very efficient, but so be it. I'll go along with that. So, the question I would like you to answer at this point is where does Paul indicate in 1 Thess 5 that he is talking about the destruction of Israel? Is he not contrasting believers (those in spiritual light) and unbelievers (those in spiritual darkness) there? I know that was two questions, so feel free to just answer the first one. But, I asked the other one as something to consider when interpreting 1st Thessalonians 5.

I was taught to find the answer to one question at a time, and then put the results together from the Scripture. Attempting to answer several questions at once only creates confusion and misunderstanding.

To answer your question on the peace and safety.

Ezekiel 38:8

"After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them."

Ezekiel 38-39 is well known as the explanation of the Battle of Armageddon. This is the "time of Jacobs Trouble" which is the latter half (3 1/2) years of the Tribulation.

When the antichrist gathers his armies to invade Israel, Israel "will dwell safely, all of them."

They dwell safely because of the peace treaty made with the antichrist, as I have shown you.

 

[Charlie24]

I was taught to find the answer to one question at a time, and then put the results together from the Scripture. Attempting to answer several questions at once only creates confusion and misunderstanding.

To answer your question on the peace and safety.

Ezekiel 38:8

"After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them."

Ezekiel 38-39 is well known as the explanation of the Battle of Armageddon. This is the "time of Jacobs Trouble" which is the latter half (3 1/2) years of the Tribulation.

When the antichrist gathers his armies to invade Israel, Israel "will dwell safely, all of them."

They dwell safely because of the peace treaty made with the antichrist, as I have shown you.

@Spiritual Israelite

Let me show you one other thing to confirm that Paul was speaking of Israel in the "sudden destruction" in 1 Thes. 5:3.

It took me a while to find this Scripture, I wasn't sure if Paul took this from Ezekiel, Isaiah, or Jeramiah., It was Jeremiah.

Jer. 30:6-8

"Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:"

Can you see the similarities of what I have told you in this verse? Most importantly Paul mentioning "as travail upon a woman with child.?

Paul took his words from 1 Thes. 5:3, "as a woman in travail" "peace and safety" "sudden destruction" from a combination of OT prophecy. He took it from the prophesies of Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Zechariah, and even Christ Himself in Matt. 24.

 

[David in NJ]

Here is the passage I'm referencing with some surrounding verses for context:

1 Thess 4:14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words. 5:1 Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. 8 But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. 9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

So, Paul was writing about the second coming of Christ here and he first focused on what will happen to believers when Christ returns. The dead in Christ will be resurrected and those who are still alive at the time will be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air.

Then Paul shifts the focus to what will happen to unbelievers at that point. He talks about how they are in spiritual darkness, unlike believers who "are all children of the light". And he indicates that the day of the Lord, which is the day Christ returns, will come like a thief in the night (Jesus Himself said this as well - Matthew 24:42-44, Revelation 16:15). Which means He will come suddenly and unexpectedly, which is what Jesus Himself indicated when He said that no one knows the day or hour of His second coming (Matt 24:36,42-44; Matthew 25:13). And destruction will come upon believers at that time and it will be such that "they will not escape" it. And, based on 1 Thess 5:9, we can deduce that this destruction Paul was talking about is a result of God's wrath that believers, of course, will not have to experience.

So, it should be clear that 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 is talking about something that will happen on the day Christ returns. I think most of us here agree with that, whether we are pre-trib or post-trib and whether we are premil or amil. But, we don't all agree on what exactly Paul is saying in that passage in terms of who exactly will be experiencing the destruction resulting from God's wrath that he references there.

And this leads me to the main point that I'm intending to make in this thread. Those of us who are Amillennialists (except for some partial preterists who relate 1 Thess 4-5 to what happened in 70 AD) believe that the sudden and unexpected destruction that Paul wrote about will come upon all unbelievers in the world. That is why he said "they will not escape". None of them will. If any of them could escape it, then I don't believe he would have said "they will not escape". But, does it say that no unbelievers can escape it specifically? No. Is there any other scripture we can use to support that claim? Yes, there is.

Keep in mind that Paul is writing about the day of the Lord coming like a thief in 1 Thess 5:2-3. If the following isn't speaking of the same event, then I don't know how two scriptures can ever be related together. It's clear to me that Peter wrote about the same event here:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare. 11 Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12 as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13 But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

When I read 2 Peter 3:10-13 and then I read 1 Thess 5:2-3, it occurs to me that it's no wonder that Paul said "they will not escape". How could anyone escape fire coming down upon the entire earth? Obviously, they couldn't. Only believers who will be changed and have immortal bodies could survive that.

So, with all of this in mind, how exactly is it possible that anyone could survive the sudden destruction resulting from God's wrath that will come down on the earth when Christ returns? Jesus Himself indicated that no unbelievers will survive that just as none survived the flood (Peter makes this same point in 2 Peter 3:5-7).

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

It seems clear to me that Paul and Peter taught the same thing that Jesus taught, which was that no unbelievers will survive His wrath when He comes again. As Jesus Himself indicated, just as "the flood came and took" all unbelievers away and killed them, "That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man". No unbelievers will survive His second coming, either. As Peter said in 2 Peter 3:13, we are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth in accordance with the promise of Christ's second coming. So, why look forward to an earthly millennial kingdom in accordance with the promise of His second coming instead? Especially when scripture indicates that no mortals will survive His return?

"Non of them shall escape" refers to globalists, elitists, sexually immoral, idolators, abusers of mankind, those who destroy the earth and those who take the Mark.

Not everyone dies = this is very clear from scripture = Zechariah ch14

"Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles."


There are Two Judgments that are separated by 1,000 Years = easy to SEE in Revelation chapters 19 and 20.

 

[ScottA]

Yes, I am clear on it. It couldn't be more clear that he was talking about a future event.


You talk like someone who has been brainwashed. You think you're holier than thou and more spiritual than everyone, but you've been duped by false doctrine. Paul saying that Christ will come down from heaven and that the dead in Christ will rise is clearly a statement about the future. Otherwise, he would have said Christ has come down from heaven and the dead in Christ have risen. But, he didn't.


Stop thinking that you are God or that you speak for Him.

I was going to try one last appeal to your reasonability...but no, you mock me and God by whom I speak, and therefore I will not hear from you, but leave you to your own understanding. So be it.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

Yes, of course God's wrath will fall on the wicked and not on believers, but what is your understanding of THAT DAY exactly? When taking 2 Peter 3:10-12 into account as well, we can see that scripture teaches that the church will be caught up to meet the Lord on the day Christ returns while the wicked will all be destroyed. If you disagree with that, then please tell me how you interpret 1 Thess 5:2-3 and 2 Peter 3:10-12.

People in general do not understand how Prophecy is given to us in textualized versions that in some cases STRETCH the meaning/timing for 7 years, 1000 years etc. in one or two verses.

For instance IMMEDIATELY AFTER the tribulation in Matt. 24:29-30 is not speaking of Jesus' second coming, its speaking of the Sun and Moon going dark and THEN (verse 30) says Jesus will return, but its 3.5 years after the Sun and Moon goes Dark in the middle of the week. The exact same thing happens in Zech. 14:1-2, that is Jerusalem being sacked by the Anti-Christ and THEN......in verse 3 we see Jesus lands on Mt. Zion 3.5 years later. So, people can and do CONFLATE the timing of Prophecy.

So, will this universe burn on the Day of the Lord? Yes, but what is the Day of the Lord? Well, it STARTS God's Wrath, then Judges mankind over a 42 month period of time AND it is Jesus 1000 year reign, so it lasts 1003.5 years in full, an d ONLY after the 1000 years is over and Satan is loosed does Jesus set this Universe ablaze, and yes, it will be on the Day of the Lord because it only means THAT DAY in which God and Jesus starts taking back the rightful ownership of this earth from Satan.

I think this earth is HELL, Satan wins his prize in the end. Then a New Heaven and New Earth descends.

 

[David in NJ]

Matthew 24:29-31 = Jesus Second Coming
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Daniel 12:1-3 = Jesus Second Coming
“At that time Michael, the great prince who stands watch over your people, will rise up. There will be a time of distress, the likes of which will not have occurred from the beginning of nations until that time. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered.
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life but others to shame and everlasting contempt.
Then the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness will shine like the stars forever and ever.

I Corinthians 15:51-53 = Jesus Second Coming
"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality."

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 = Jesus Second Coming
Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep.
For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel,
and with the trumpet of God,
and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.
After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.