There may be more than one way to hear from God, but it should always be compared to what the Bible says, or else it opens the door to being led astray. Not every voice is from God. Both Muhammad and Joseph Smith claimed to get revelations from angels, but did they really? Even Satan can appear as an angel of light. For a Christian, the Bible should always be the standard on which all other revelations are weighed.
Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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There may be more than one way to hear from God, but it should always be compared to what the Bible says, or else it opens the door to being led astray. Not every voice is from God. Both Muhammad and Joseph Smith claimed to get revelations from angels, but did they really? Even Satan can appear as an angel of light. For a Christian, the Bible should always be the standard on which all other revelations are weighed.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen said:
I love my Pastor. But it does bother me when he asks everyone to
grab their copy of "God's word" for the scripture reading.
I do not believe that EVERY word in the Bible is "God's word".
In that same way that I do not believe in inerrancy.
Being raised evangelical left much to be desired in terms of understanding where the Bible came from.
Evangelicals seem to have this idea that God wrote the Bible. That he picked up a pen and started writing
and when he reached the last verse in Revelation he was done and that was the finished Bible.
Therefore the Bible is "God's word".
That is NOT what happened.
]
I love my Pastor. But it does bother me when he asks everyone to
grab their copy of "God's word" for the scripture reading.
That's a good question, thanks.
I do not believe that EVERY word in the Bible is "God's word".
In that same way that I do not believe in inerrancy.
Being raised evangelical left much to be desired in terms of understanding where the Bible came from.
Evangelicals seem to have this idea that God wrote the Bible. That he picked up a pen and started writing
and when he reached the last verse in Revelation he was done and that was the finished Bible.
Therefore the Bible is "God's word".
That is NOT what happened.
]
MA2444
Well-Known Member
Keep it in perspective though! All of our english bibles are translations of God's word. So there might be some technical errors in it.
When the Student is Ready, the Teacher will Come. You are the student. I am the student. It is up to us to study and show ourselves approved. So you better have a concordance.
You can understand about 95% of God's word without studying it out. But the other 5% you wont understand at all unless you do study it out in the original language and learn about ancient hebrew culture and custioms also.
So it's not like the college course is not before you. We just have a reluctant student, lol! Am I right?
Rockerduck
Well-Known Member
Just remember the King James bible has been around 400 years, and translations of the King James have only been 50 years and less. All the translations are copyrighted and for pay books. They had to change a certain number of words to be considered a new work. Therefore, words used are sometimes a stretch for meaning.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I agree that a small % of the words in Scripture are literally “God’s” word.
Having said that, objecting to the expression on that basis is overly literal. The Bible is highly figurative. One reason it is difficult for modern people to grasp.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
In studying the history of manuscripts, the translations of them, and the variances of them; I know that "bible study" requires much more than simply reading them. Asking God to assist with understanding, but also while doing actual study with all the resources at our disposal, we can reach the point where conviction comes from God. It is not a simple Sunday School lesson designed by man with proof texts.
2 Tim 2:14–19 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,"
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
I think that much of God's truth has fallen by the wayside because we have become so dependent on those proof texts that we simply refuse to validate them with the rest of scripture and are not asking Yahweh for the truth.
2 Tim 2:14–19 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have swerved from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already happened. They are upsetting the faith of some. But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,"
Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
I think that much of God's truth has fallen by the wayside because we have become so dependent on those proof texts that we simply refuse to validate them with the rest of scripture and are not asking Yahweh for the truth.
I don't make a fuss about it. I know what they mean. But...
The expression “God’s word" itself is overly literal. (as you know)
And it comes with baggage. Like inerrancy.
And a misunderstanding of where it came from.
Many who claim it is “God’s word" mean that God wrote it. (every word)
Even though the many translation don't match.
Which is why KJO is common with them as well.
/
I have seen many refuse to listen to anything that might run afoul of the the things they have learned in the past. I think the battle cry of the willfully ignorant sounds like this:
"My bible says it, and I believe it, and that settles it."
Ignoring what man has done beginning with the oldest manuscripts and the translations afterwards will lead us quickly into error.
Religious cults use this as a tool against prospects.
They ask you to "look it up in your own Bible."
Then they ask you if you will obey the words in "your own Bible?"
]
MA2444
Well-Known Member
That's right. It's always the Student's fault and not the book's fault.
Sorry, no time to go out for pizza, I have to study this so I dont fail the exam! ...is a better approach.
It is the student's fault. It is also the fault of those who manipulated scriptures but they are dead now. The bibles we have now have been manipulated to support pet doctrines. We, however, have God as our teacher, but He desires that we diligently seek Him. He did not promise us a Rose Garden, nor did His Son. The "Way" is over rocky ground and through the valleys between the hills. It is our dependence of His Father than enables us to make the journey.
MA2444
Well-Known Member
You forgot to consider what comes after the thorns. Harvest! Rewards! A new dwelling place with no thorns...
So why dwell on the negative instead of the positive. That seems counterproductive.
Regarding canon, while there was no "offically" recognized canonized scripture prior to the fourth century, most of what we consider the Old Testament was already well established as authoritative scripture before the first century AD. All the books of the Old Testament, with the exception of Esther, were found among the Dead Sea Scrolls, for example. By the second century, many of the writings that eventually became part of the New Testament were already considered authoritative among the early Christians.
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MA2444
Well-Known Member
Has God limited Himself in the spread of His knowledge? Yes, God limited Himself by allowing you and me to choose to travel our own way instead of His Way. This is what men call free will. It allows ultimately only two choices that matter: God's Way or Not.
A person's cited Bible verses may support his own version of living for God, but they may also be used to support other versions by other persons. They may be and too often apparently are used to support many other versions held by the many Christian groups [or individuals] in existence.
We can choose God's Way which requires us to lean on Him and hear what He is saying. The Holy Spirit is able and willing to bring to Life [quicken] what we have consumed [read in or heard from the Book]. There is potential in the Bible because it was written by men as they were inspired by God to do so. That potential can come to Life in us when and if we allow ourselves to be led by the same Holy Spirit that led the original writers to write. The source is not the Book. The source is God.
People have wrong messages or mixed messages because they at times quench the Holy Spirit within themselves and then follow themselves or other men.
A person's cited Bible verses may support his own version of living for God, but they may also be used to support other versions by other persons. They may be and too often apparently are used to support many other versions held by the many Christian groups [or individuals] in existence.
We can choose God's Way which requires us to lean on Him and hear what He is saying. The Holy Spirit is able and willing to bring to Life [quicken] what we have consumed [read in or heard from the Book]. There is potential in the Bible because it was written by men as they were inspired by God to do so. That potential can come to Life in us when and if we allow ourselves to be led by the same Holy Spirit that led the original writers to write. The source is not the Book. The source is God.
People have wrong messages or mixed messages because they at times quench the Holy Spirit within themselves and then follow themselves or other men.
What did Satan do?
"And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:6-7
Satan quoted Psalm 91:12 at Jesus and Jesus rebuked him with Deut. 6:16... but what Jesus said was the Word of God. The quoted scriptural words in the mouth of Satan were Not the Word of God.
Today we might see the same thing when an avowed atheist quotes scripture to a saint of God in an argument. Without the Spirit, it is Not the Word of God! Sometimes sometime believers do that. They quote a scripture verbatim but it is dead and empty because the words are not quickened [brought to Life] by the Spirit when they are spoken!
"And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt 4:6-7
Satan quoted Psalm 91:12 at Jesus and Jesus rebuked him with Deut. 6:16... but what Jesus said was the Word of God. The quoted scriptural words in the mouth of Satan were Not the Word of God.
Today we might see the same thing when an avowed atheist quotes scripture to a saint of God in an argument. Without the Spirit, it is Not the Word of God! Sometimes sometime believers do that. They quote a scripture verbatim but it is dead and empty because the words are not quickened [brought to Life] by the Spirit when they are spoken!
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