Where do you get your Authority?

[MatthewG]

Are you someone who believes that they have authority over others and their faith?

I would like to say to you, that you are wrong. Unless you can justify that you indeed in fact have authority over others who are of the faith.

Say you use the Bible as your Authority: Then who gave you that authority was it God? I do not believe the Bible claims we have any authority at all.

God is the authority, and his authority is by and through the Holy Spirit.

I have no authority over others at all. I wont make demands on others of what they should do or should not do. From my perspective all people should have freedom to live their life how they want to, poor or rich. If you have the holy spirit move into you, you will realize (or should realize) that you are only accountable to God, and God alone, your are not accountable to others. What you do with your own life is your own choice!
God bless everyone of you.

 

[amadeus]

@MatthewG
Authority?

Over 40 years ago, my wife and I were new to an assembly of a particular denomination. Before entering that place I had never in my life read a Bible even though I was 32 years old and, of course all of the congregation and the pastor knew that.

I never questioned my pastor's authority because I did not know at the time what authority he had. I was interested in learning about and asked him privately to explain what the basis for his authority was. I had only been in his congregation for a few weeks at the time. I expected and hoped to receive an answer from scripture. Instead, He, apparently, not understanding what it was I wanted, didn't answer me at all and left the room. It was just about time for service to start so I went and rejoined my wife sitting in a pew in the sanctuary.

Shortly after the start of the service the pastor went to the podium and speaking before the entire congregation rebuked me saying that I had questioned his authority. I was completely stunned as was my wife for I had already explained to her what had occurred just few minutes earlier.

Still, I would have thought that the man had simply not understood me. That was not the case as I discovered. I have never been a person easily angered and I did not get angry then, but I cannot say the same for my wife.

In the 21st chapter of John, Jesus told Peter once to feed His lambs and then He told him twice to feed His sheep. It was a simple command. I guess that at the time I was rebuked, I was a lamb, and I was very hungry, and my pastor did feed me. He never did answer my question. I did not leave the church because I did not know enough to understand what had happened. I am not certain that I do even today.

I hold no hard feelings against the man. Rather, I prayed for him for many years after he had finally driven my wife and me from his assembly. He is probably dead now since he was quite a few years older than me. I hope that sometime before the end he learned just what it was that God wanted Him to do.

 

[MatthewG]

Bump.

@amadeus It was wrong of him to kick you out; a person who was showing up in need of learning about God and Christ, but this is has happened to many people over time... People come to church, not righteous people but broken hearted people who understand their need for Jesus who has done everything we ourselves could never do, nor would ever do for another. When the Holy Spirit moves in, we are more prone once learning that the spirit of Christ lives with-in us to rely on the strength of Christ, to be forgiving towards others, to be patience in difficult times with others, and the like.

 

[Wrangler]

Are you someone who believes that they have authority over others and their faith?

I would like to say to you, that you are wrong. Unless you can justify that you indeed in fact have authority over others who are of the faith.

What justification WOULD YOU accept? If one has authority, why do they need to justify it to you on this on-line forum?

Having said that, as I read your question, my mind went to ‘to whom much is given, much is expected.’ No, I don’t equate that as authority over but responsibility for others.

To my knowledge, there are 4 Biblically ordained authorities:

1. Parents
2. Husbands
3. Boss
4. Civil & Religious leaders

 

[MatthewG]

Hello wrangler,

That is true, about how we are to obey our parents, and wife’s should submit to husbands and in the same regard they both should love one another in equality, having also a boss over us and also governing authorities that are set forth in the Bible.

I have not a problem with Parents, teaching their children. Or husbands and wife’s having love for one another and teaching their families. Respecting the boss at work.

Each and every individual is responsible to God alone as he is the authority in Spiritual matters and governs people by writing his laws in the hearts and minds of individuals seeking a relationship with others, whom self-sacrifice in giving their own time to God by loving him first, and loving others.

The authority I am speaking to is - where do people think they get the authority to make religious demands on peoples to follow : considering from the perspective as many hold on to “that Jesus is coming back and we must perform rules full of must dos”.

Im of a different opinion as I believe the church bride in that day in age was taken by Jesus Christ when he returned in which the believers according to the Bible would be waiting to see the Son of Man come through the clouds and they would be changed in the twinkling of the eye, and the nation of Israel had the wrath of God poured out upon it in 70Ad and the white throne judgement was carried out for them in that day.

Not many people believe this nor do I expect them to, however the judgement of the white throne was pertains to the nation of Israel and those who were in Hell (Sheol) and also Satan and the false prophet and the beast, and the devils angels, all gone into the lake of fire being wiped away as the second Death which Jesus overcame.

So where is authority needed in the church today? Except save from God and the Holy Spirit that works on the mind and heart of individuals who are all responsible for their walk of faith in God.

No one is going to be there for me, for me to put the blame on as this guy told me this and this guy told me that. And God will say, and??

We make our own choices how we live in this world, by faith in Christ, and all people are called to love God first.

Having love for others second, so I don’t get the point of “so-called authority” (unless people are literally starting to fight each other in it for an extreme example that is about the only thing I could see) in a church when the building is there for people to hear the word of God and hear it taught verse by verse and to learn and grow in their knowledge and then leave and they Have the freedom and liberty to decide for themselves what they will do.

 

[ChristisGod]

Are you someone who believes that they have authority over others and their faith?

I would like to say to you, that you are wrong. Unless you can justify that you indeed in fact have authority over others who are of the faith.

Say you use the Bible as your Authority: Then who gave you that authority was it God? I do not believe the Bible claims we have any authority at all.

God is the authority, and his authority is by and through the Holy Spirit.

I have no authority over others at all. I wont make demands on others of what they should do or should not do. From my perspective all people should have freedom to live their life how they want to, poor or rich. If you have the holy spirit move into you, you will realize (or should realize) that you are only accountable to God, and God alone, your are not accountable to others. What you do with your own life is your own choice!
God bless everyone of you.

Are you saying Pastors/Elders have no authority from God over the flock ?

Acts 20:28
Keep watch over yourselves and the entire flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.

1 Timothy 5:17-19
Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. 18 For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing," and "The laborer is worthy of his wages." 19 Do not receive an accusation against an elder except on the basis of two or three witnesses


1 Peter 5:1-5
Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, 2 shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; 3 nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. 4 And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. 5 You younger men, likewise, be subject to your elders; and all of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, for God is opposed to the proud, but gives grace to the humble

Titus 1:5-9
5 The reason I left you in Crete was that you might straighten out what was left unfinished and appoint elders in every town, as I directed you. 6 An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. 7 Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless — not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. 8 Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. 9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @Christophany

Please refer to post 5, to understand what I am saying.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Are you someone who believes that they have authority over others and their faith?

I would like to say to you, that you are wrong. Unless you can justify that you indeed in fact have authority over others who are of the faith.

Say you use the Bible as your Authority: Then who gave you that authority was it God? I do not believe the Bible claims we have any authority at all.

God is the authority, and his authority is by and through the Holy Spirit.

I have no authority over others at all. I wont make demands on others of what they should do or should not do. From my perspective all people should have freedom to live their life how they want to, poor or rich. If you have the holy spirit move into you, you will realize (or should realize) that you are only accountable to God, and God alone, your are not accountable to others. What you do with your own life is your own choice!
God bless everyone of you.

I do believe that God ordains people to have authority in matters of faith. That authority comes from God. This also doesn’t apply to everything they do 24/7, they are still human.

But don’t that person’s word that they are from God, go ask Him yourself.

 

[farouk]

Scripture.

 

[MatthewG]

I do believe that God ordains people to have authority in matters of faith. That authority comes from God. This also doesn’t apply to everything they do 24/7, they are still human.

But don’t that person’s word that they are from God, go ask Him yourself.

I don't, since the death of John the Beloved the last living apostle died off, after all the other ones had be martyred. Thank you for sharing.

Scripture.

Disagree. Thank you for sharing.

 

[farouk]

I don't, since the death of John the Beloved the last living apostle after all the other ones had be martyred. Thank you for sharing.



Disagree. Thank you for sharing.

@MatthewG Put it this way:

Is it accurate to say: Thus saith the Lord" or "Thus saith Matthew" ?

 

[MatthewG]

@MatthewG Put it this way:

Is it accurate to say: Thus saith the Lord" or "Thus saith Matthew" ?

Apostolic Authority. All gone and dead. Bible is still valuable to learn about God and Jesus, the apostles and anything else one would like to learn.

 

[ChristisGod]

I don't, since the death of John the Beloved the last living apostle died off, after all the other ones had be martyred. Thank you for sharing.



Disagree. Thank you for sharing.

Elders are not apostle’s different office in the church . Elders , pastors and shepherds are present offices in the church who have oversight which the passages I posted confirmed.

hope this helps !!!

 

[MatthewG]

@Christophany did you take a look at post number 5, to get an understanding of my perspective?

I do not care if a person is leading a Church or whatever...

The problem comes in when they start making demands on other people.

Not everyone is like that, however some are... I remember one time going into a church "DEMANDING TITHES to be paid for the members asked for the church that was built" - Also have seen people point out to "TITHE" and give them money as though it is a commandment.

Understand: I am against so-called " RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY " THAT THROWS DOWN COMMANDMENTS on their congregation like it is a law.

 

[ChristisGod]

@Christophany did you take a look at post number 5, to get an understanding of my perspective?

I do not care if a person is leading a Church or whatever...

The problem comes in when they start making demands on other people.

Not everyone is like that, however some are... I remember one time going into a church "DEMANDING TITHES to be paid for the members asked for the church that was built" - Also have seen people point out to "TITHE" and give them money as though it is a commandment.

Understand: I am against so-called " RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY " THAT THROWS DOWN COMMANDMENTS on their congregation like it is a law.

1 Corinthians 5
I wrote to you in my letter not to associatewith sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.

12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.

Jesus confirms the above truth in Matthew 18


Dealing With Sin in the Church
15 “If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18 “Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19 “Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven.20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.

 

[MatthewG]

@Christophany

Just because one quotes scriptures doesn't mean anything. Anyone can do that, I do not understand where you get the authority from to make demands by quoting the scriptures over people as though they have authority?

You may not realize that God is the authority, you can share these scriptures with other people, however it is God who is the authority, not other people, he writes on the hearts and minds of people.

I guess you did not consider what I had wrote, and desire to handle things your own way, that is fine. I love you anyway, however the way you are handling these things aren't going to effect in the least in saying that - there is no authority but God himself, and people can use the scripture to learn more about God, and it is HIM by the SPIRIT that changes the heart and mind of a person.

I already know those scriptures exist, and maybe you are of the opinion that CHURCH DEMANDS AND AUTHORITY is part of the social life, of the congregation but God doesn't work like men work. He works by the Holy Spirit.

God bless you and take care!

 

[farouk]

Elders are not apostle’s different office in the church . Elders , pastors and shepherds are present offices in the church who have oversight which the passages I posted confirmed.

hope this helps !!!

@Christophany We now have 'faith once delieved to the saints' for which we earnestly contend (Jude); but while we have Scriptural record of the Apostolic faith, the Apostolic function has ceased.

 

[ChristisGod]

@Christophany We now have 'faith once delieved to the saints' for which we earnestly contend (Jude); but while we have Scriptural record of the Apostolic faith, the Apostolic function has ceased.

And the Apostle’s appointed elders

 

[farouk]

And the Apostle’s appointed elders

Paul made it clear in Acts 20 when he left Ephesus that it would be the local Ephesian elders who from then onwards would be responsible for feeding the flock of God.

 

[MatthewG]

Anyone who is over a church

they should be humble and open and honest and apparent that they themselves also have sin, if they are going to be teaching in my opinion.

What do you think @farouk, @Christophany?

Should they be honest in that they all fall short, and it is Jesus Christ, and focusing on God and allow him to help us by the Holy Spirit, and read the Bible verse by verse and teach the people?

Or would it be good to focus on little of the Bible, make the people feel good about themselves and jam out and everyone leave and nothing is learned at all?

What are your thoughts I would like to hear them.