Where Does Denial of Scripture About Hell Originate?

[Insight]

You may find this interesting.

Punctuation in our current modern style was not used until the ninth century C.E. Many theologians have actively debated the use of punctuation here in Luke 23:43 and still do to this day.

It has long been preferred to place the comma after the word “today”. The issue with making the emphasis “today” as to mean now! Conflicts with Acts 2:31 Christ’s soul went to "hell" three (3) days which is not normally considered Paradise.

The immortal soulism / Heaven going dogmatists desire the comma to be placed before the word "today" and thereby give the impression that the evildoer entered Paradise that same day (without judgment), there is nothing in the rest of the Scriptures to support this.

Either way, the soul is the "body" and hell is the "grave".

And with this true understanding we have no conflict in understanding this passage.

 

[Duckybill]

You may find this interesting.

Punctuation in our current modern style was not used until the ninth century C.E. Many theologians have actively debated the use of punctuation here in Luke 23:43 and still do to this day.

It has long been preferred to place the comma after the word “today”. The issue with making the emphasis “today” as to mean now! Conflicts with Acts 2:31 Christ’s soul went to "hell" three (3) days which is not normally considered Paradise.

The immortal soulism / Heaven going dogmatists desire the comma to be placed before the word "today" and thereby give the impression that the evildoer entered Paradise that same day (without judgment), there is nothing in the rest of the Scriptures to support this.

Either way, the soul is the "body" and hell is the "grave".

And with this true understanding we have no conflict in understanding this passage.

So you know Greek better that the writers of our English Bibles? How about some proof of that???

 

[Insight]

Sorry, did I make that claim.

 

[Duckybill]

Sorry, did I make that claim.

You implied that you do.

 

[Insight]

Where did I say "I knew Greek better that the writers of our English Bibles" ???

 

[Duckybill]

Where did I say "I knew Greek better that the writers of our English Bibles" ???

You implied it.

 

[Insight]

Oh

 

[Duckybill]

Just tell us plainly, are these wrong and you are rigtht?

Luke 23:42 (ESV)
42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

Luke 23:42 (ASV)
42 And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom.

Luke 23:42 (NIV)
42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

Luke 23:42 (NASB)
42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"

Luke 23:42 (NKJV)
42 Then he said to Jesus, "Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom."

Luke 23:42 (WesleyNT)
42 And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me, when thou comest in thy kingdom.

Luke 23:42 (BBE)
42 And he said, Jesus, keep me in mind when you come in your kingdom.

Luke 23:42 (MontgomeryNT)
42 Then he added, "Jesus, remember me when you come in your kingdom."

Luke 23:42 (Darby)
42 And he said to Jesus, Remember me, [Lord,] when thou comest in thy kingdom.

Luke 23:42 (KJV)
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:42 (MaceNT)
42 then said he to Jesus, Lord, remember me when you enter into your kingdom.

Luke 23:42 (NASB77)
42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!"

Luke 23:42 (NLT)
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom.”

Luke 23:42 (NRSV)
42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

Luke 23:42 (TLB)
42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your Kingdom."

Luke 23:42 (WEY)
42 And he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come in your Kingdom."

 

[Insight]

Most of these verses are different, which one

 

[Duckybill]

Most of these verses are different, which one.

They all say "your Kingdom" or "thy Kingdom" and contradict your statement "He viewed Jesus as “the kingdom”.

 

[Insight]

You changed post #144


We’re not happy with how you judged my intentions?

 

[Duckybill]

You changed post #144
We’re not happy with how you judged my intentions?

Happy or not, your statement doesn't agree with our English Bibles. And Yes, you did imply that they are wrong and you are right.

 

[Insight]

The Bible text designated YLT is from the 1898 Young's Literal Translation by Robert Young who also compiled Young's Analytical Concordance. This is an extremely literal translation that attempts to preserve the tense and word usage as found in the original Greek and Hebrew writings. The text was scanned from a reprint of the 1898 edition as published by Baker Book House, Grand Rapids Michigan. The book is still in print and may be ordered from Baker Book House.

Luke 23:42YLT

and he said to Jesus, `Remember me, lord, when thou mayest come in thy reign;'

Robert Young was a Greek Scholar

 

[Duckybill]

The Bible text designated YLT is from the 1898 Young's Literal Translation by Robert Young who also compiled Young's Analytical Concordance. This is an extremely literal translation that attempts to preserve the tense and word usage as found in the original Greek and Hebrew writings. The text was scanned from a reprint of the 1898 edition as published by Baker Book House, Grand Rapids Michigan. The book is still in print and may be ordered from Baker Book House.

Luke 23:42YLT

and he said to Jesus, `Remember me, lord, when thou mayest come in thy reign;'

Robert Young was a Greek Scholar

And of course it is closest to YOUR doctrine, even though it doesn't agree with your statement. So that's almost one translation out of 18 that almost agrees with you. That still leaves at least 17 that don't agree with you.

 

[Insight]

When you quoted your list did you see the footnotes from the editors?

 

[Duckybill]

When you quoted your list did you see the footnotes from the editors?

They translated the text as the most accurate they understood. They didn't include the 'footnotes' in the text for VERY good reasons.

 

[Insight]

Our conversation started out amicably in post #136, however I sense a degree of contention within your posts, so it is best I heed Prov 15:18.

The Word cannot be received if a "peaceful" relationship is not maintained.

Maybe next time the outcome could be different.

God Bless

Insight

 

[Duckybill]

Our conversation started out amicably in post #136, however I sense a degree of contention within your posts, so it is best I heed Prov 15:18.

The Word cannot be received if a "peaceful" relationship is not maintained.

Maybe next time the outcome could be different.

God Bless

Insight

I sense that you don't know what you're talking about, so bye.

 

[Insight]

Luke 23:42

Remember me Lord when thou “Comest in thy Kingdom” Literally means “In your Kingdom”. He viewed Jesus as “the kingdom”. RSV states “in your kingly power”

Trying to force or defend error with this passage is not wise. The phrase almost word for word of Joseph in Gen 40:14: "But when all goes well with you, remember me and show me kindness; mention me to Pharaoh and get me out of this prison."

Of course, he and Joseph await the Lords return as Joseph waited the release from his prison {grave}

And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in “paradise”. Luke 23:43

The word Paradise is also interesting in the Grk: “the paradise”. It is a Persian word meaning “a park”. Only other occurrence is found in 2 Cor 12:4KJV & Rev 2:7KJV.

Both 2 Cor 12:4YLT & Rev 2:7YLT are references to the future Kingdom of God on earth. It’s also interesting that Septuagint LXX uses this Persian word for “Garden of Eden” in Gen 2:8.

Context suggests the "paradise" being referred is the second coming when the malefactor along with many other faithful will be resurrected to judgment and glory.

 

[Duckybill]

Context suggests the "paradise" being referred is the second coming when the malefactor along with many other faithful will be resurrected to judgment and glory.

Today? His "second coming" was the same day? Guess we missed it.