Where Does Denial of Scripture About Hell Originate?

[jiggyfly]

So then, why would John say that God would baptize sinners with fire? The term 'baptize' meaning 'immerse'.

Same reason he said that Jesus would baptize in the HolySpirit.
1 On the day of Pentecost all the believers were meeting together in one place.2 Suddenly, there was a sound from heaven like the roaring of a mighty windstorm, and it filled the house where they were sitting.3 Then, what looked like flames or tongues of fire appeared and settled on each of them.4 And everyone present was filled with the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other languages, as the Holy Spirit gave them this ability.
Acts 2:1-4 (NLT)

 

[aspen]

Hell is also God's mercy......

It is going to be the best option for unredeemed souls......they would be worse off in an unredeemed condition if they were forced to spend eternity with God.

Hell will be horrible, but it will also be a haven

 

[Duckybill]

Hell is also God's mercy......

It is going to be the best option for unredeemed souls......they would be worse off in an unredeemed condition if they were forced to spend eternity with God.

Hell will be horrible, but it will also be a haven

Have you ever been burned? I don't think anyone in Hell would agree with you.

 

[Insight]

Luke 12:50

Jesus spoke of Baptism in this way because of its purgative qualities and its ability to destroy wickedness. Mal 3:1,2,3 When he said “I have a baptism” speaking to the great suffering Jesus would endure. In reality Jesus life was a baptism of fire for everyday he was scorched with the trials and the sorrow of sins affects in his nature (not his sin but Adams).

John also had spoken of a “baptism of fire” in Matt 3:11. Which is the same fiery trial in 1 Pet 4:12-13.

The symbol / natural properties of water and fire are totally immersing oneself in suffering.

 

[Duckybill]

You guys can deny eternal punishment if you like, but it's abundant in the Scriptures.

John 5:28-29 (KJV)
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Daniel 12:2 (NKJV)
2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Insight]

Luke 3:16 is interesting; if you go over to Acts 2:3,4 we see this fire in another context.

In Acts 2 the Holy spirit came with “tongues of fire” in other words the Baptism which came of Jesus was able to affect the Apostles dramatically setting them ablaze with fiery zeal of the Gospel See Psa 39:1,2,3 & Jer 20:8-9

So while the Fire of his baptism was one of suffering, it also spoke of the zealous enthusiasm required to endure the burning heat of the day and preach a fiery message of hope which spread through Asia Minor - - like wild fire

Lovely lesson isn’t it?

 

[Duckybill]

A quite literal, future event.

Revelation 20:12-15 (NKJV)
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[veteran]

So far, it would appear that Insight has come here to try and rewrite God's Word according to the false tenets of "Social Religioin" instead of Revealed Religion directly from God's Word. Makes me wonder what he thinks about Mary's conception by The Holy Spirit too.

 

[Insight]

No Veteran, if you open the Word it provides light, Ps 119:130 it’s the kind of light which is pure and is full of truth...but you must enter it and not speak at it as loftily as you do. Your doctrines are impure and teach of Angels sinning and mating with Humans; teaching that immortal angelic beings have need of descendants or heirs. All these erroneous teachings contradict all that is taught of Angels. You teach of Gods essence being tortured eternally in some imaginary place which you yourself know not.

To this Paul would write:

But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

In keeping with this thread we know that historians taught the Egyptians, even before the Greek philosophers got to work on Christianity, were the first to purport the doctrine of an immortal souls. And yet being a very intelligent man who no doubt has a grasp of history cannot perceive the corruption of Bible teaching through Greek mythology...even when it is presented so plainly.

Maybe Isa 6:10 applies

we are told 2 Tim 3:13...so I will take Jer 1:17 as encouragement.

God Bless your eyes and ears.

Insight

 

[Duckybill]

You teach of Gods essence being tortured eternally in some imaginary place which you yourself know not.

I have provided SEVERAL perfectly clear Scriptures that teach eternal punishment in fire. FAR from being "imaginary".

How many do you need?

Revelation 21:8 (NKJV)
8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Hell is also God's mercy......

It is going to be the best option for unredeemed souls......they would be worse off in an unredeemed condition if they were forced to spend eternity with God.

Hell will be horrible, but it will also be a haven

There is no 'haven' from God for the lost.

 

[Foreigner]

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’" - Matt. 25: 41-45


-- You are absolutely correct Ducky,

Hell is real and eternal and the worst fate imaginable.

Insight, in order to believe what he does,has to willfully ignore Jesus' own warnings on the topic of hell.


Aspen, however, has embraced a concept that is in no way supported by scripture.

He feels that while hell will be bad, it is better than being in God's presence as a sinner.

Apparently the horrible wailing and gnashing of teeth in hell will still be better than having to stand before God as He judges.

Unfortunately for that opinion, the very scripture I have included refutes that.

As you read it you find a group of sinners "the goats" standing before God, having a conversation Him, listening to him condemn them, asking when they would have seen Him to fulfill what He says they didn't, and listening to His response.

If Aspen is correct, that period of time they are actually speaking with God is much worse for them than when they are actually IN hell, realizing they are seperated from God for all time, suffering the tortures and pains of eternal damnation.

 

[Duckybill]

Aspen, however, has embraced a concept that is in no way supported by scripture.

He feels that while hell will be bad, it is better than being in God's presence as a sinner.

Apparently the horrible wailing and gnashing of teeth in hell will still be better than having to stand before God as He judges.

Unfortunately for that opinion, the very scripture I have included refutes that.

As you read it you find a group of sinners "the goats" standing before God, having a conversation Him, listening to him condemn them, asking when they would have seen Him to fulfill what He says they didn't, and listening to His response.

If Aspen is correct, that period of time they are actually speaking with God is much worse for them than when they are actually IN hell, realizing they are seperated from God for all time, suffering the tortures and pains of eternal damnation.

I don't know which book Aspen is reading but the Bible in no way supports his opinion. I.E.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

 

[Insight]

If Aspen is correct, that period of time they are actually speaking with God is much worse for them than when they are actually IN hell, realizing they are seperated from God for all time, suffering the tortures and pains of eternal damnation.

What is eternally damned?

 

[Duckybill]

What is eternally damned?

That would be like this:

Luke 16:22-26 (NKJV)
22 The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' 25 But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

That's a perfect example of eternal damnation.

 

[Insight]

What exactly is eternally damned?

 

[Duckybill]

What exactly is eternally damned?

There have been several descriptions of 'eternally damned' in this thread.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

 

[Insight]

What is it that is damned?

 

[Duckybill]

What is it that is damned?

You mean who? The lost, unsaved, nonChristians, those who attack the Bible. They will be damned, unless of course they repent and be saved.

 

[Insight]

What substance is damned?

 

[Duckybill]

There will be a LOT of people in Hell. They won't be worried about the substance.