Where is the reformation in the Bible?

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theefaith

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Where is the reformation in the Bible?
Yeahhh, it's easy to miss if one sees there is no need for reformation even if every page broadcasts it.

reformation by man is impossible
God established the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles
The spotless bride of Christ?
How can man reform what God has formed?
How can man change truth? Divine revelation cannot change! It is immutable!
 

Ziggy

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The first church was in the garden. Adam and Eve.
The second church was in the desert. Moses.
The third church was in the wilderness. Jesus.
The fourth church ...
I have to check revelation.. There seems to be 7.
Spiritually speaking.
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Noah and family after the flood was a church.
Abraham and family was a church.
Jacob and family was a church.

Always been forming and reforming.

The appearance of the 7th or last church looks kind of pathetic.
Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

like 7 heads maybe?

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Adam is also red.
Or mankind in general.

Maybe this beast/dragon is a combination of seven churches.
Reason I say this is because only in religion is there what is known as blasphemy.
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

I wonder if God was the one who put a mark on this beasts heads and named it "Blasphemy" .
That is the name of this beast. Blasphemy.

What is blasphemy?

So since the beginning the "churches" each hand down it's knowledge from the prior church.
knowledge passed from Adam to Noah to Abraham... etc.. until Jesus and this present day.
And up until Jesus perhaps a lot of what was passed along as truth and knowledge was actually Blasphemy.
It wasn't perfect. Is was in a process of being formed.
And still is.
But now we have a Perfect example of what a perfect church should look like through Jesus.

But we have fallen into Laodicea knowledge.
This is the church today that has been formed by all these other churches that have come before.

Rev 3:15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

What is a church?

Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

These lively oracles, how have they shaped the church over the ages?
Have they perfected us or have they led us to also Blaspheme?

Apparently the "church" since the beginning wasn't getting it right, so Jesus came to set it straight.
Are we perfect yet?

There is still a lot of work to be finished.
That is why Paul said he came to finish the works, Jesus said he came to do the works of his father,
we are told to work in the edifying of the church, building eachother up.

But the church we started with, that one Adam created, it was flawed from the beginning.
And we been going down hill since then.
Because each new church that was born from the last church, instead of purging out the leaven and bad doctrines,
carried them forward to the next, until all the heads were sick.

Jesus came to heal the sick.
And some will come to the doctor to be healed and some will not.

just thinking out loud..
Hugs
 

theefaith

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The first church was in the garden. Adam and Eve.
The second church was in the desert. Moses.
The third church was in the wilderness. Jesus.
The fourth church ...
I have to check revelation.. There seems to be 7.
Spiritually speaking.
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Noah and family after the flood was a church.
Abraham and family was a church.
Jacob and family was a church.

Always been forming and reforming.

The appearance of the 7th or last church looks kind of pathetic.
Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

like 7 heads maybe?

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Adam is also red.
Or mankind in general.

Maybe this beast/dragon is a combination of seven churches.
Reason I say this is because only in religion is there what is known as blasphemy.
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

I wonder if God was the one who put a mark on this beasts heads and named it "Blasphemy" .
That is the name of this beast. Blasphemy.

What is blasphemy?

So since the beginning the "churches" each hand down it's knowledge from the prior church.
knowledge passed from Adam to Noah to Abraham... etc.. until Jesus and this present day.
And up until Jesus perhaps a lot of what was passed along as truth and knowledge was actually Blasphemy.
It wasn't perfect. Is was in a process of being formed.
And still is.
But now we have a Perfect example of what a perfect church should look like through Jesus.

But we have fallen into Laodicea knowledge.
This is the church today that has been formed by all these other churches that have come before.

Rev 3:15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

What is a church?

Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

These lively oracles, how have they shaped the church over the ages?
Have they perfected us or have they led us to also Blaspheme?

Apparently the "church" since the beginning wasn't getting it right, so Jesus came to set it straight.
Are we perfect yet?

There is still a lot of work to be finished.
That is why Paul said he came to finish the works, Jesus said he came to do the works of his father,
we are told to work in the edifying of the church, building eachother up.

But the church we started with, that one Adam created, it was flawed from the beginning.
And we been going down hill since then.
Because each new church that was born from the last church, instead of purging out the leaven and bad doctrines,
carried them forward to the next, until all the heads were sick.

Jesus came to heal the sick.
And some will come to the doctor to be healed and some will not.

just thinking out loud..
Hugs

there’s only one church
One body of Christ
One kingdom of God
One new covenant
One New Testament church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and it is eternal
Matt 16:18 18:18 28:19 eph 2:20
Lk 1:32-33
 

Riverwalker

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Man ( AKA The Roman Catholic Church) had veered SO far away from the bible truth, with its indulgences, inquistions, and political and economic ambitions, the reformation just steered it back on the track
 

theefaith

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Man ( AKA The Roman Catholic Church) had veered SO far away from the bible truth, with its indulgences, inquistions, and political and economic ambitions, the reformation just steered it back on the track

no these are simply nothing more than fundamentalist misunderstandings

for example
Mary is according to scripture the mother of God! Lk 1:43
 

Ziggy

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there’s only one church
One body of Christ
One kingdom of God
One new covenant
One New Testament church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and it is eternal
Matt 16:18 18:18 28:19 eph 2:20
Lk 1:32-33
So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
Hugs
 

Riverwalker

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yes biblically she is the mother of God

And Biblically she is not:
  • The Queen of heaven
  • A Co Redemptrix
  • Someone To Pray to (Our Father...not his mother)
  • elevated in any way above others (blessed among, not above women)
  • a life long virgin, she had sons and daughters after Jesus
  • the immaculate conception (Jesus is)
The above is all part of that tradition that men added
and the list goes on
 

Ziggy

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There has only ever been one church.
That is the God/man relationship.

There is only one body of Christ.
Made up of a lot of flawed parts that need purging.

There is only one Kingdom of God.
And some will get in and some won't.

I don't know about the one new covenant.
I say this because when the first covenant was made, that was new.
Like when God made a covenant with Noah and the rainbow, that was new.
The covenant with Moses at Mt. Sinai was new when God gave it to him.
We have a new covenant with Jesus.
Is this the final New covenant?
Maybe Moses thaought his was the first and the last..
We don't really know the whole plan yet, do we?

And founding a church on men such as Peter and the Apostles, is not much different than all the other churches that have come before.

The difference I find is that in this New Covenant, Christ himself is the head of it.
Not man.

Thanks you
Hugs
 
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theefaith

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So are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?
Hugs

It’s God’s kingdom
Christ has all authority
Since He founded the one true new covenant church on Peter and the apostles there is one church forever more!
 

Wrangler

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It’s God’s kingdom
Christ has all authority
Since He founded the one true new covenant church on Peter and the apostles there is one church forever more!

Sometimes I get the impression, and correct me if I am wrong, but you do not seem like a devoted Protestant.
 

theefaith

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yes biblically she is the mother of God

And Biblically she is not:
  • The Queen of heaven
  • A Co Redemptrix
  • Someone To Pray to (Our Father...not his mother)
  • elevated in any way above others (blessed among, not above women)
  • a life long virgin, she had sons and daughters after Jesus
  • the immaculate conception (Jesus is)
The above is all part of that tradition that men added
and the list goes on

simple misunderstandings

Biblical Mary!

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Biblical Mary:

Mother of God Lk 1:43

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus)

Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30

Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21
Lk 1:31-34

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And king of heaven so Mary is queen of heaven

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And king of heaven so Mary is queen of heaven

Behold thy mother!

What does Behold in scripture mean?

A marvelous thing!
A miraculous action!
A wonder!
An awe inspiring declaration!

Behold thy mother!

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not asking John to care for His Mary, if so He would have said so, he is not even speaking to John, scripture says He is addressing the disciple, therefore it applies to all disciples.

Jesus is making Mary spiritual mother to all disciples! And all disciples take Her into thier home, And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!

What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He gave Mary to be the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation! Behold, I make all things new!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.
 

Ziggy

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So God didn't found the church in Mt.Sinai?
And the old covenant and the new covenant are kind of blended together as one.
And this is true because Christianity is founded on Judaism.
Every example we are given in the NT are from the OT scriptures.
So it is another foundation built on a prior foundation.
If Jesus founded his church on man (Peter/apostles)
Then what is the difference between Peter and Moses?

Why not purge out the old and begin a complete new one without any of the scriptures carried over from the last?
Because it's still the same church.
Instead of growing seperately which was how the old covenant was formed. ( a certain people called out to be an example to other nations)
Now we are merged together old and new to form a church where all are welcome. Not just a particular group.

There are some denominations today that wouldn't blink an eye at tossing out the OT.
But then what would the Apostles writings be founded on?
What examples would they be able to give?

Peter like Moses were fallible men.
The church itself has Christ as it's head. He is the leader. The High Priest. The King.
Man whether Peter or Moses were sent out to be the husbandmen and feed the flock.
Peter, feed my sheep.
Peter didn't found Christ, Christ gave Peter a mission.
Peter was a piece of the rock. He is not the Rock.
Peter is a man and not God.

I'm not putting Peter down. That's a great commision to go out and feed the Lord's sheep.
The same commision that was given to Moses.
But over time, because man is fallible, the walls start to crumble. The infrastructure becomes weak.
Peter was sent to lead us to God.
Not the other way round.

Hugs
 

theefaith

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Sometimes I get the impression, and correct me if I am wrong, but you do not seem like a devoted Protestant.

I’m not
No saint has ever been a Protestant
Not that I’m a saint

the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is catholic, universal Jn 1:29 Jn 3:16 Lk 1:10
 

Riverwalker

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Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
And that is why Jesus' Father had to be God
The sin passes from Man to child

I am going to stop responding because you have no ear to hear. I will simply end with this

If your faith is in the church, you need to look your salvation
 

theefaith

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So God didn't found the church in Mt.Sinai?
And the old covenant and the new covenant are kind of blended together as one.
And this is true because Christianity is founded on Judaism.
Every example we are given in the NT are from the OT scriptures.
So it is another foundation built on a prior foundation.
If Jesus founded his church on man (Peter/apostles)
Then what is the difference between Peter and Moses?

Why not purge out the old and begin a complete new one without any of the scriptures carried over from the last?
Because it's still the same church.
Instead of growing seperately which was how the old covenant was formed. ( a certain people called out to be an example to other nations)
Now we are merged together old and new to form a church where all are welcome. Not just a particular group.

There are some denominations today that wouldn't blink an eye at tossing out the OT.
But then what would the Apostles writings be founded on?
What examples would they be able to give?

Peter like Moses were fallible men.
The church itself has Christ as it's head. He is the leader. The High Priest. The King.
Man whether Peter or Moses were sent out to be the husbandmen and feed the flock.
Peter, feed my sheep.
Peter didn't found Christ, Christ gave Peter a mission.
Peter was a piece of the rock. He is not the Rock.
Peter is a man and not God.

I'm not putting Peter down. That's a great commision to go out and feed the Lord's sheep.
The same commision that was given to Moses.
But over time, because man is fallible, the walls start to crumble. The infrastructure becomes weak.
Peter was sent to lead us to God.
Not the other way round.

Hugs

Christ formed the church on the apostles eph 2:20

The church has a eternal
No crumbling

Lk 1:32-33

matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
 

theefaith

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And that is why Jesus' Father had to be God
The sin passes from Man to child

I am going to stop responding because you have no ear to hear. I will simply end with this

If your faith is in the church, you need to look your salvation

the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is necessary for salvation

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church founded by Christ is the ark of salvation!

The promise (sacred oath or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:



A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!
 

Ziggy

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Don't forget,
Eve the first woman was the Mother of all living.
That includes Rachel and Mary.
God entrusted Eve with the entire human race.
God entrusted Rachel with a peculiar people.
God entrusted Ruth with King David of whom Christ's lineage can be found.
And God entrusted Mary with the one that would save the living that Eve bore.
The world.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son,
that whomsoever shall believe, shall be saved.
Those be the children of Eve. Saved by the child of Mary.
In either case, the woman is the vessel in which the living enter into the world.
But it is God who places the living within her.

And every mother who bares a child, bares a child of God.
God is not a respecter of persons.
Today's mom is just as important as Eve or Ruth or Mary,
because we all carry that life within us.

Hugs
 

theefaith

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Don't forget,
Eve the first woman was the Mother of all living.
That includes Rachel and Mary.
God entrusted Eve with the entire human race.
God entrusted Rachel with a peculiar people.
God entrusted Ruth with King David of whom Christ's lineage can be found.
And God entrusted Mary with the one that would save the living that Eve bore.
The world.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son,
that whomsoever shall believe, shall be saved.
Those be the children of Eve. Saved by the child of Mary.
In either case, the woman is the vessel in which the living enter into the world.
But it is God who places the living within her.

And every mother who bares a child, bares a child of God.
God is not a respecter of persons.
Today's mom is just as important as Eve or Ruth or Mary,
because we all carry that life within us.

Hugs

yes God bless all mothers of course
But only Mary is the mother of God! Lk 1:43
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14
immaculate conception of Mary gen 3:15
The immaculate conception of Mary And the miraculous conception of Jesus Lk 1:49

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!

Mother of Divine Grace!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


The throne of Grace is the throne of Mary the ever Virgin mother of God!

We come boldly to this throne cause Mary is our mother and advocate!

Mary is the storehouse of divine graces!

Lk 1:28
And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail Mary, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.


Salvation is to be found with Mary!
Jesus Christ is our salvation! Lk 2:30
He is Lord, and He is with Mary! Lk 1:28
Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38
 

Ziggy

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How is it that Mary is the only Mother of God when.
God created Christ in Eve first?
There is a "her seed" in Eve that got passed down to Mary.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

And God is forming all of us in his image and likeness, through Christ.
Salvation isn't in Mary, Salvation is in Christ alone.

It is the very seed God planted in Eve which were called "all living"

God Bless Mary, Amen
God Bless us all
Hugs