Where will you spend eternity?

[SavedByTheLord]

Where will you spend eternity? This is the most important question that you will ever consider. What will happen when you die? Would you go to heaven? Are you saved? If you have never believed that you are saved forever through faith alone in the crucified and risen Lord Jesus Christ or have trusted in something else, you are not saved.

1. To understand this good news (the gospel) you must understand the bad news:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23)

Sin is breaking God’s law. If you have ever lied, slandered anyone, borne false witness against anyone, stolen anything, cheated someone, hated anyone, disobeyed your parents, believed or supported the lie of evolution, had an abortion, supported abortion, coveted someone’s spouse, are married and lusted after someone not your spouse, committed adultery, fornication or murder, you have sinned. Every thought, word, and deed that breaks God’s law is sin.

God is holy and will punish sin by everlasting separation from God in the lake of fire.
For the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23)
it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgement (Heb 9:27)
from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female (Mark 10:6)
… unbelieving … idolaters ... all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire (Rev 21:8)

Until all your sins are forgiven by trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour, you are under God’s damnation.

2. The good news (the gospel) is that Jesus Christ loved us so much that He was crucified to pay for all our sins by His shed blood on the cross. He then rose from the dead. Here is t the gospel of Christ declared
I declare unto you the gospel … By which also ye are saved … how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures (1 Cor 15:1-4)

Christ is our substitute who bore our sins. The shed blood of Jesus Christ is the atonement for our sins.
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin (2 Cor 5:21)
without shedding of blood is no remission (Heb 9:22)
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Rom 5:8)
In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins (Eph 1:7)
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood (Rom 3:25)
Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood (Rev 1:5)
the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin (1 John 1:17)

You must believe that Jesus Christ is God Almighty, the Creator of all things, the Son of God. Referring to Jesus Christ, the word of God says:
Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God (John 20:28)
God was manifest in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16)
by him were all things created (Col 1:16)
the Almighty (Rev 1:8)
Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31)
Jesus is the Lord (1 Cor 12:3)
the Saviour (Phil 3:20)
Jesus said, if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. (John 8:24)

You must believe that you have sinned and can never be good enough or do anything to earn salvation.
There is none righteous, no, not one (Rom 3:10)
there is none good but one, that is, God (Mark 10:18)
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation (2 Cor 7:10)

Salvation is a gift given freely by the grace of God through faith alone in the Lord Jesus Christ. You cannot earn or work for a gift else it is not a gift. Good works, sacraments, observing days, church membership or attendance, baptism, religious rituals will not help you. You must repent from trusting in these or any other works. Trust only in the Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood as the complete, finished and only payment for all your sins. Then God will forgive all your sins.
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that believe (Rom 3:22)
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness (Rom 4:5)
the foundation of repentance from dead works (Heb 6:1)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works (Eph 2:8-9)
the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rom 6:23)
But if it be of works, then it is no more grace (Rom 11:6)

You must repent of belief in any other God, gods, idols and false religions.
God … commandeth all men every where to repent (Acts 17:30)

You must believe that there is no other way to salvation.
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved (Acts 4:12)
Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me (John 14:6)
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins (Heb 10:11)
But Jesus Christ “offered one sacrifice for sins for ever” (Heb 10:12)

The only way to be saved is to believe that you are saved forever just through faith in the crucified and risen Lord Jesus Christ and His shed blood as the complete payment for all your sins.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved (Acts 16:31)
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life (John 3:15)
the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth (Rom 1:16)

Jesus, who never sinned, was beaten, mocked, spat upon, and the hairs of His beard pulled out. They put a crown of thorns on Him and beat it onto His head. His back was scourged repeatedly, tearing open His flesh. He carried a rough wooden cross to Calvary. They drove metal spikes into both of Christ’s hands and feet, crushing bone and into nerve tissue. Jesus then hung on that torturous cross for six hours. Our sins cost Christ that punishment. Yet Jesus endured all that unto death to shed His blood as payment for all your sins because of how much He loves you. Any attempt is to reject Christ crucified. Now just believe and be saved. The resurrection of Jesus Christ proves His sacrifice was accepted by God.
he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities (Isa 53:5)
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame (Heb 12:2)

Any attempt to earn salvation through works or merit is to mock and despise His great sacrifice.
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him (Titus 1:16)

As Christ died on the cross He declared to the world and for all time, “It is finished” (John 19:30). Noting can be added to the finished work of salvation by the Lord Jesus Christ at the cross.

Salvation is guaranteed forever the moment you trust in Christ, nothing can take it away.
Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him (2 Cor 2:9)

The gospel of Jesus Christ is the greatest news ever and it is about the greatest love ever.
to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge (Eph 3:19)

Salvation is a one-time event received through faith alone in the risen Lord Jesus Christ crucified for our sins.
Jesus said, Ye must be born again (John 3:7)

3. To be saved, believe that you have sinned and are justly under God’s damnation (ungodly). Until you believe you are damned and need Christ as your Saviour, you cannot be saved. Do not trust in any merit of your own, works, or any other way. Now just believe and trust in Jesus Christ alone as your Saviour. Believe in who He is – God Almighty, the Son of God, and the only Saviour. Believe in what Christ did for you - completely paid for all your sins by shedding His holy blood on the cross, was buried and rose from the dead. Now believe and trust in what Jesus has promised you – everlasting life guaranteed forever through faith in Him.

Jesus said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life (John 6:47)

If you have believed in the crucified and risen Lord Jesus Christ and trusted in His total payment for all your sins by His shed blood, you are saved forever and cannot lose your salvation. The Lord Jesus Christ is God and the Almighty Saviour, never lost anyone who trusted in Him, and would never lie.
him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out (John 6:37)
I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish (John 10:28)
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins (Col 1:14)
having forgiven you all trespasses (Col 2:13)
I will never leave thee nor forsake thee (Heb 13:5)

Tell others the gospel of Christ so that they too can be saved (Rom 1:16, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Acts 16:30-31, Rom 3:25, Eph 1:13, 2:8-9).
Read the Holy Bible as often as possible. It is the word of God. Concentrate on the Gospel of John, the later part of the Acts of the apostles (9-28) and especially Paul’s letters (Romans through Philemon). Paul is “the apostle of the Gentiles” (Rom 11:13) and his letters preach, declare and defend the gospel of Jesus Christ (Rom 1:15-16, 1 Cor 15:1-4, Phil 1:17, Rom 15:16, 2 Tim 4:17). Paul’s letters are the key to understanding the rest of scripture (2 Tim 2:7, 2 Peter 3:15-16). All scripture is from the King James Bible – the word of God in English.

 

[No Pre-TB]

Would you go to heaven?

No. We are never promised heaven. We are only promised Paradise, a well watered garden, as the New Jerusalem on Earth.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

No. We are never promised heaven. We are only promised Paradise, a well watered garden, as the New Jerusalem on Earth.

Stephen when he was being stoned said this.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 7:59-60

 

[No Pre-TB]

Stephen when he was being stoned said this.

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
Acts 7:59-60

Receive my spirit is not the same as being promised paradise. You’re making an assumption. We are not promised heaven. Paul didn’t teach it and Christ didn’t say it. There is not one verse that mentions it. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn’t exist.

Christ is going to prepare a place for us on a new earth as the new Jerusalem. That where he is, reigning, we will be too.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

Receive my spirit is not the same as being promised paradise. You’re making an assumption. We are not promised heaven. Paul didn’t teach it and Christ didn’t say it. There is not one verse that mentions it. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn’t exist.

Christ is going to prepare a place for us on a new earth as the new Jerusalem. That where he is, reigning, we will be too.

Yeah after awhile but first heaven and for the rest hell.

So who are all those people in heaven in Rev 4 to Rev 19?

 

[No Pre-TB]

Yeah after awhile but first heaven and for the rest hell.

So who are all those people in heaven in Rev 4 to Rev 19?

I’m not sure what you mean by first heaven and for the rest hell.

There are no resurrected people in Ch 4. Christ isn’t even there when John views the entire throne room. There are souls seen in Ch. 6 as a symbol. Ch. 7 also describes over-comers, but the symbolism in that event respects the millennial kingdom Rev 21:3-4 as that event is said to “After this I held”. After what? The 144k. How long after? That answer is found in the context.

Paradise and Heaven are completely different and we are promised paradise.

Rev 2:7 and Rev 22:2

◄ 3857. paradeisos ►

Strong's Concordance paradeisos: a park, a garden, a paradise​ Original Word: παράδεισος, ου, ὁ Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine Transliteration: paradeisos Phonetic Spelling: (par-ad'-i-sos) Definition: a park, a garden, a paradise Usage: Paradise. HELPS Word-studies 3857 parádeisos – an ancient Persian word meaning "enclosure, garden, park." When is Heaven described as a well watered park?

 

[Matthias]

“Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the earth.”

(Matthew 5:5)

 

[strepho]

GODS ELECT, ZADOK

There's discrepancy on short range. I don't think anyone intentionally did it. Lack of knowledge.

Luke chapter 16, Richman and Lazarus. There are two sides of the gulf. One side is paradise. Other side is sheol.

The saints go to paradise.
The wicked and spirtualty dead go to sheol.

The reprobates are the wicked, romans chapter 1. They are in sheol. Thier in bad standing with Jesus.
Why??.
Because they wont repent. They hate God. They hate the righteous. Despise God laws. 2 esdras chapter 7 to document.

Other group. These are spiritually dead. They do love God. But they were brainwashed by some churches in the flesh. They didn't repent. And listening to false doctrine. Its idol worship.

The spirtualty dead will have opportunity for eternal life during millennium.

The reprobates followed satan into lake of fire.

Documentation. Revelation chapter 20.
2 esdras chapter 7.
Psalm chapter 34.
Psalm chapter 37.
Who are the saints??

Thier God's Elect. They have holy spirit. You need holy spirit to guide you through narrow gate to paradise.

The holy spirit is the key. Most people have spirit of stupor.

Wicked don't have spirit of stupor.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Where will you spend eternity? This is the most important question that you will ever consider. What will happen when you die?

The Bible answers that....
Eccl 9:5,6,10....Solomon wrote...
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going."

Solomon's father, King David also held this belief....
Psalm 115:1...
"The dead do not praise Jah;
Nor do any who go down into the silence of death."

Would you go to heaven? Are you saved?

I have the hope of salvation, but I have no desire to go to heaven, because God designed humans to live on earth....forever. He even gave the first humans a garden paradise to start them off, telling them to "fill the earth" with their children and to "subdue" the land outside of their garden home, extending its borders until the whole earth became a paradise.

The "tree of life" was there to guarantee "everlasting life" but that was not "immortality". No humans can be immortal because they were not created to be. An immortal cannot die. Nowhere does the Bible say that souls are immortal. Souls are living, breathing creatures and they die. (Ezek 18:4) Animals are not promised everlasting life, and yet we breathe the same air as they do, and we die the same death...we stop breathing, and the soul dies. (Eccl 3:19-20)

If you have never believed that you are saved forever through faith alone in the crucified and risen Lord Jesus Christ or have trusted in something else, you are not saved.

Faith alone never saved anyone.
James 2:14-
"Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?
. . . . faith by itself, without works, is dead."
18 Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?"

So, not faith alone....faith must be backed up by actions.....which speak louder.

1. To understand this good news (the gospel) you must understand the bad news:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23)

Yes, that is the bad news, but we were born in sin through no fault on our part. It is something we inherited from Adam (Rom 5:19) and God knows the power of sin and teaches us to gain the mastery over it....not because of the fear of punishment, but out of love and respect for our heavenly Father. We do not want to disappoint him or ourselves....and lose out on everlasting life.

Sin is breaking God’s law. If you have ever lied, slandered anyone, borne false witness against anyone, stolen anything, cheated someone, hated anyone, disobeyed your parents, believed or supported the lie of evolution, had an abortion, supported abortion, coveted someone’s spouse, are married and lusted after someone not your spouse, committed adultery, fornication or murder, you have sinned. Every thought, word, and deed that breaks God’s law is sin.

How many people reading this will end up in deep depression? We have sin inborn in us and it takes strong faith to overcome the temptation to commit a sin. The devil uses our weaknesses against us, but we can "fight the fine fight of the faith" by controlling the sinful tendencies in us. "Self control" is a fruit of God's spirit.

What does God say about sin?
Psalm 103:14....
“He himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.”
He saw what happened in Eden, how the devil set Adam up by deceiving his wife into breaking God's command concerning the only tree in the garden that was God's personal property. They stole from their Sovereign and it carried the death penalty....God loved us so much that he was willing to sacrifice his own son to buy back what Adam lost for all his children. (John 3:16)

There is no such thing as "damnation"...there is only one penalty for serious sin and, as it was in the garden, the highest penalty for any sin is death.
God does not need or want to punish the wicked in a fiery hell after they die...that is a satanic lie. The place where God sends the wicked is "gehenna" and it is called "the second death" because it is different from the one inflicted by Adam.....we can come back to life out of that death, (like Lazarus did. John 11:11-14) but there is no coming back from "gehenna". It is eternal death....as opposed to eternal life.

Those are the only choices we have. (Deut 30:19-20)

 

[SavedByTheLord]

The Bible answers that....
Eccl 9:5,6,10....Solomon wrote...
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . . . .Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going."

Solomon's father, King David also held this belief....
Psalm 115:1...
"The dead do not praise Jah;
Nor do any who go down into the silence of death."


I have the hope of salvation, but I have no desire to go to heaven, because God designed humans to live on earth....forever. He even gave the first humans a garden paradise to start them off, telling them to "fill the earth" with their children and to "subdue" the land outside of their garden home, extending its borders until the whole earth became a paradise.

The "tree of life" was there to guarantee "everlasting life" but that was not "immortality". No humans can be immortal because they were not created to be. An immortal cannot die. Nowhere does the Bible say that souls are immortal. Souls are living, breathing creatures and they die. (Ezek 18:4) Animals are not promised everlasting life, and yet we breathe the same air as they do, and we die the same death...we stop breathing, and the soul dies. (Eccl 3:19-20)

Faith alone never saved anyone.
James 2:14-
"Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it?
. . . . faith by itself, without works, is dead."
18 Nevertheless, someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?"

So, not faith alone....faith must be backed up by actions.....which speak louder.

Yes, that is the bad news, but we were born in sin through no fault on our part. It is something we inherited from Adam (Rom 5:19) and God knows the power of sin and teaches us to gain the mastery over it....not because of the fear of punishment, but out of love and respect for our heavenly Father. We do not want to disappoint him or ourselves....and lose out on everlasting life.

How many people reading this will end up in deep depression? We have sin inborn in us and it takes strong faith to overcome the temptation to commit a sin. The devil uses our weaknesses against us, but we can "fight the fine fight of the faith" by controlling the sinful tendencies in us. "Self control" is a fruit of God's spirit.

What does God say about sin?
Psalm 103:14....
“He himself well knows the formation of us, remembering that we are dust.”
He saw what happened in Eden, how the devil set Adam up by deceiving his wife into breaking God's command concerning the only tree in the garden that was God's personal property. They stole from their Sovereign and it carried the death penalty....God loved us so much that he was willing to sacrifice his own son to buy back what Adam lost for all his children. (John 3:16)

There is no such thing as "damnation"...there is only one penalty for serious sin and, as it was in the garden, the highest penalty for any sin is death.
God does not need or want to punish the wicked in a fiery hell after they die...that is a satanic lie. The place where God sends the wicked is "gehenna" and it is called "the second death" because it is different from the one inflicted by Adam.....we can come back to life out of that death, (like Lazarus did. John 11:11-14) but there is no coming back from "gehenna". It is eternal death....as opposed to eternal life.

Those are the only choices we have. (Deut 30:19-20)

Some preach that there is no such thing as everlasting torment. But the Bible is quite clear that such a judgment does indeed exist. Pay attention to the following words from Jesus Christ.

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. – Mark 9:42-48

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. – Matthew 25:46

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. – Luke 16:22-26

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? – Matthew 23:33

The basis of whether someone goes into everlasting torment in the lake of fire is have they ever believed the gospel of Christ.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. – John 3:36

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. – Rev 1:8

Now I love you too much to not tell you the truth so that you can be saved and escape this terrible fate. This warning is not just for you, but possibly all those whom you know and love. I beg you please repent and believe the gospel of Christ before it is too late. Anyone could die at any time. Just imagine continual torment in the lake of fire forever and ever.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Some preach that there is no such thing as everlasting torment. But the Bible is quite clear that such a judgment does indeed exist. Pay attention to the following words from Jesus Christ.

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. – Mark 9:42-48

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. – Matthew 25:46

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. – Luke 16:22-26

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? – Matthew 23:33

The basis of whether someone goes into everlasting torment in the lake of fire is have they ever believed the gospel of Christ.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. – John 3:36

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. – Rev 1:8

Now I love you too much to not tell you the truth so that you can be saved and escape this terrible fate. This warning is not just for you, but possibly all those whom you know and love. I beg you please repent and believe the gospel of Christ before it is too late. Anyone could die at any time. Just imagine continual torment in the lake of fire forever and ever.

Time to lose that old dinosaur of a Bible…the KJV is no longer a reliable source of Bible truth. It’s antiquated language and rendering of words like “hell” and "damnation" do not convey the true meaning of what was written in the original languages. Have you done any original language word studies….you may be surprised by what you learn. We have come a long way in linguistics since the dinosaur was a pup. Lets allow the original Bible to speak for itself, rather than a biased translation introduced long after the events it records.

Let’s take the scriptures you quoted and compare them to what a reliable concordance says regarding the words translated “hell“ and “damnation”……these are nothing of the sort.

1) Mark 9:42-48...
"it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."

What is the word translated "hell" here? It is not "hades" but "Gehenna", which in Hebrew was the Valley of Hinnom, a place where the apostate Israelites fell to false worship and burned their children in sacrifice to a false god.
Jehovah said concerning this practice....
"They have built the high places of Toʹpheth, which is in the Valley of the Son of Hinʹnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, something that I had not commanded and that had never even come into my heart.’"

So if the practice of burning one's children was not something God would ever allow his people to do, why would he then do it himself to his own children? Is there any law of God to Israel that carried torture as a punishment? There was none. The highest penalty for any crime was "death".

God then commanded that the Valley of Hinnom be turned into a garbage dump as it was just outside the city wall in Jerusalem. Fires were kept burning day and night with the addition of brimstone (sulfur) so that "the fires never went out". The bodies of dead animals and executed criminals (who were not considered worthy of a decent burial) were cast into that garbage dump for disposal. Nothing alive ever went into Gehenna. What the flames missed, the maggots finished off.....these are the "worms that never die".
So "Gehenna" is not a real place of eternal torment...it is the symbol of eternal death because if a Jew did not have a clearly marked tomb, they believed that God would not remember them in the resurrection that he had promised them in Messiah's Kingdom. Your KJV has seriously misled you.

The ancient Jews had no belief in an immortal soul because their scripture did not teach that the dead continue to live on after the death of the body....they would "sleep" in death until their Lord (Messiah) called them from their graves, as Jesus said he would do. (John 5:28-29)
When Jesus raised his friend Lazarus from his tomb, where did he say that Lazarus was?

"After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died".

Lazarus hadn't gone anywhere....Jesus said he was "asleep". This is confirmed by Solomon who wrote in Eccl 9:5, 6, 10....

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun. . . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, [sheol] where you are going."

Those in the grave are not conscious, so they cannot suffer or do anything that requires conscious effort. Their love has also "perished"...how can that be?
How do we know that Gehenna is not a place of conscious torment?
Jesus said so.....Matthew 10:28...
"And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna."
Those in Gehenna are not tortured...they "PERISH"....they are completely "destroyed". God has no need or desire to torture anyone. Why would he? His justice demanded nothing like that.

 

[Aunty Jane]

And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Matthew 25:46 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. – Rev 1:8

2) Everlasting death IS "everlasting punishment"....Gehenna is the lake of fire.....that is why it is called "the second death".....no one can be resurrected from the second death......it is permanent death, removing life from those who are found unworthy of retaining the gift..

3) Now what about "the rich man and Lazarus"?
This is a parable among many other parables (Read all of Luke ch 16) and taken literally, it would be ridiculous......this shows that the story was pictorial of something else....something that he wanted to make clear to his audience.

Verses 14-15 say.....
"Now the Pharisees, who were money lovers, were listening to all these things, and they began to sneer at him. 15 So he said to them: “You are those who declare yourselves righteous before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is considered exalted by men is a disgusting thing in God’s sight."
So the parable following Jesus' condemnation of the Pharisees prompted the illustration of the rich man and the beggar. They were pictured by the "rich man" and the "lost sheep" to whom Jesus was sent, pictured the "beggar", desiring the scraps that fell from the rich man's table. The Pharisees ignored the spiritual 'beggars, treating them like dirt, concentrating on themselves and those who wanted to aggrandize them as much as they wanted that for themselves.

The "bosom of Abraham" was a place of favor with God.....their deaths therefore represent a change in status....the rich man lost his place of favor and the beggar gained it because it was the lost ones who flocked to hear Jesus speak. They were finally getting fed more than scraps. These are the ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah.....but those who stuck with the lying hypocritical Pharisees were among the guilty who clamored for Jesus' death. (Matt 27:25)

Ask yourself if heaven and hell are within speaking distance to one another?....and if a drop of water on someone's finger can cool someone in a fire? Its not literal.
So, again you have been misled. This is not a parable about the afterlife.....there is no afterlife because there is no such thing as an immortal soul. "Souls" are living breathing creatures.....they die, (Ezekiel 18:4)
A soul in the Bible is never described as a disembodied spirit.

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? – Matthew 23:33

4) Again this is "gehenna", but not "hades".
Rev 20:13-14 tells us that hades 'gives up its dead' and then hades is 'cast into the lake of fire'...to be destroyed forever.
The "damnation" is the sentence of eternal death. The Pharisees had well earned that sentence.
Do you even know the difference between hades and gehenna? Its is huge, but masked by the KJV translating both as an invented doctrine of "hell".
Hell is not hot....nor are people conscious in that place.

The basis of whether someone goes into everlasting torment in the lake of fire is have they ever believed the gospel of Christ.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. – John 3:36

5) What is it that we need to "believe"?I have a solid belief in Jehovah, the God of Jesus Christ, and in the sin atoning value of his sacrifice....so what am I missing? What are we to "believe"?

Now I love you too much to not tell you the truth so that you can be saved and escape this terrible fate. This warning is not just for you, but possibly all those whom you know and love. I beg you please repent and believe the gospel of Christ before it is too late. Anyone could die at any time. Just imagine continual torment in the lake of fire forever and ever.

I appreciate so much your sincere concern, but I also have concern for you as I do not believe that you understand what the Bible teaches outside of what you have learned in a very corrupt and divided "church" system.....do you see history repeating now? There is no eternal torment...that is a satanic lie.

The Pharisees claimed to worship the same God that Jesus preached....but they accused him of trying to subvert the faith that they promoted....yet Jesus said the ones pointing the finger at him were the true apostates...teaching a corrupted version of Judaism.
Today, Christendom is the accepted "Christianity" of the masses, but it is nothing close to what Jesus and his disciples taught....it is a deviation...a counterfeit that has been in existence for centuries. Unless you identify the counterfeit, you will be the one on the wrong side of Christ's judgment. We are living at the time of the separation of 'the wheat from the weeds'......Jesus decides which ones we are.

I will pray that the truth guides your heart......its hard to put down what you have always believed, but it was the same for the first Christians.

 

[SavedByTheLord]

2) Everlasting death IS "everlasting punishment"....Gehenna is the lake of fire.....that is why it is called "the second death".....no one can be resurrected from the second death......it is permanent death, removing life from those who are found unworthy of retaining the gift..

3) Now what about "the rich man and Lazarus"?
This is a parable among many other parables (Read all of Luke ch 16) and taken literally, it would be ridiculous......this shows that the story was pictorial of something else....something that he wanted to make clear to his audience.

Verses 14-15 say.....
"Now the Pharisees, who were money lovers, were listening to all these things, and they began to sneer at him. 15 So he said to them: “You are those who declare yourselves righteous before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is considered exalted by men is a disgusting thing in God’s sight."
So the parable following Jesus' condemnation of the Pharisees prompted the illustration of the rich man and the beggar. They were pictured by the "rich man" and the "lost sheep" to whom Jesus was sent, pictured the "beggar", desiring the scraps that fell from the rich man's table. The Pharisees ignored the spiritual 'beggars, treating them like dirt, concentrating on themselves and those who wanted to aggrandize them as much as they wanted that for themselves.

The "bosom of Abraham" was a place of favor with God.....their deaths therefore represent a change in status....the rich man lost his place of favor and the beggar gained it because it was the lost ones who flocked to hear Jesus speak. They were finally getting fed more than scraps. These are the ones who accepted Jesus as Messiah.....but those who stuck with the lying hypocritical Pharisees were among the guilty who clamored for Jesus' death. (Matt 27:25)

Ask yourself if heaven and hell are within speaking distance to one another?....and if a drop of water on someone's finger can cool someone in a fire? Its not literal.
So, again you have been misled. This is not a parable about the afterlife.....there is no afterlife because there is no such thing as an immortal soul. "Souls" are living breathing creatures.....they die, (Ezekiel 18:4)
A soul in the Bible is never described as a disembodied spirit.


4) Again this is "gehenna", but not "hades".
Rev 20:13-14 tells us that hades 'gives up its dead' and then hades is 'cast into the lake of fire'...to be destroyed forever.
The "damnation" is the sentence of eternal death. The Pharisees had well earned that sentence.
Do you even know the difference between hades and gehenna? Its is huge, but masked by the KJV translating both as an invented doctrine of "hell".
Hell is not hot....nor are people conscious in that place.

5) What is it that we need to "believe"?I have a solid belief in Jehovah, the God of Jesus Christ, and in the sin atoning value of his sacrifice....so what am I missing? What are we to "believe"?


I appreciate so much your sincere concern, but I also have concern for you as I do not believe that you understand what the Bible teaches outside of what you have learned in a very corrupt and divided "church" system.....do you see history repeating now? There is no eternal torment...that is a satanic lie.

The Pharisees claimed to worship the same God that Jesus preached....but they accused him of trying to subvert the faith that they promoted....yet Jesus said the ones pointing the finger at him were the true apostates...teaching a corrupted version of Judaism.
Today, Christendom is the accepted "Christianity" of the masses, but it is nothing close to what Jesus and his disciples taught....it is a deviation...a counterfeit that has been in existence for centuries. Unless you identify the counterfeit, you will be the one on the wrong side of Christ's judgment. We are living at the time of the separation of 'the wheat from the weeds'......Jesus decides which ones we are.

I will pray that the truth guides your heart......its hard to put down what you have always believed, but it was the same for the first Christians.

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. - That is a fire that is tormenting them a and Christ said it 3x.

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. – Mark 9:42-48

 

[Aunty Jane]

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. - That is a fire that is tormenting them a and Christ said it 3x.

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. – Mark 9:42-48

You have to be alive to experience torment or suffering…..the Pharisees were tormented by Jesus teachings and his exposing them for the hypocritical frauds that they proved to be…..and he condemned them to “Gehenna”, which has been erroneously married to the pagan notion of hellfire by Bible translators who were influenced by the devil. Why? Because his first lie was “you surely will not die”…..and he has been perpetuating that lie ever since. He has led humans to believe that they go on living in another form, in another place……lies!

The Jews knew what Gehenna represented because it was an actual physical place that Jesus used as a symbol of where they were going to end up…the fires never went out and because the refuse included the carcasses of dead animals and sometimes executed humans, the maggots finished off what the fires missed.…..this represents permanent death.…there is no resurrection from that place.

Since there is no teaching of an immortal soul in the Bible, (please find me one verse with those two words side by side) and it says that death is the end of life (for now) how does God torment those who are already dead? By exposing them with his truth, those spiritually dead will gnash their teeth just like the Pharisees did.

PS did you read post #11? It was all explained there.

 

[St. SteVen]

Not only for ours...
Was the work of the atonement complete?

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

/

 

[Aunty Jane]

Not only for ours...
Was the work of the atonement complete?

Not complete until the work of the Kingdom is done and dusted….and all redeemed mankind are right with God because of the complete eradication of sin. We will all then go back to the beginning and enjoy the sin free paradise that God created for humans and intended for that to be our permanent home..…what God starts, he finishes. (Isa 55:11; Rev 21:2-4) The devil created a detour…..that’s all.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

What do you think he meant by “the whole world”? Since the “goats” end up in “the lake of fire“ (which is reserved for the devil and his angels later on)….and Jesus also spoke of the “weeds” being separated from the “wheat“ and thrown into the fire to be destroyed……it is obvious that it’s not the whole population of the world that is saved but is open to the whole world to be saved IF they are obedient to Christ’s teachings…..all of them.
Life is called a prize in the Bible, but even if you win a prize, it’s not yours till you claim it…..and prove that you actually won it.

 

[Jack]

Not complete until the work of the Kingdom is done and dusted….and all redeemed mankind are right with God because of the complete eradication of sin. We will all then go back to the beginning and enjoy the sin free paradise that God created for humans and intended for that to be our permanent home..…what God starts, he finishes. (Isa 55:11; Rev 21:2-4) The devil created a detour…..that’s all.

What do you think he meant by “the whole world”? Since the “goats” end up in “the lake of fire“ (which is reserved for the devil and his angels later on)….and Jesus also spoke of the “weeds” being separated from the “wheat“ and thrown into the fire to be destroyed……it is obvious that it’s not the whole population of the world that is saved but is open to the whole world to be saved IF they are obedient to Christ’s teachings…..all of them.
Life is called a prize in the Bible, but even if you win a prize, it’s not yours till you claim it…..and prove that you actually won it.

JW AJ doesn't even know what the JW bible says.

NWT Mt 25
41 “Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.

 

[St. SteVen]

Not complete until the work of the Kingdom is done and dusted….and all redeemed mankind are right with God because of the complete eradication of sin.

So, the work of the Atonement was incomplete? That's your answer?
That it somehow depends on us? "...and all redeemed mankind are right with God..."
What's the point of redemption if it hinges on our works?

 

[Jack]

Hell will be filled with people, 'Christians', who don't believe in Hell.

 

[Aunty Jane]

So, the work of the Atonement was incomplete? That's your answer?

Atonement means “at-one-ment”…..or, “one for one”.
In Israel, animals were sacrificed for the sins of the people, but it was a temporary forgiveness because the blood of an animal could never redeem a human being. It was a constant reminder of their need of the Savior whom God promised would come…..Daniel’s prophesies (written some 500 years before Jesus was even born as a human) told them when to expect him. (Daniel 9:25)

The prophesy of the seventy weeks was important to understand, so the events described in the prophecy were of such a nature that they could not have occurred in a literal seventy weeks or a little more than a year and four months. The majority of Bible scholars agree that the “weeks” of the prophecy are weeks of years.

As to the first seven “weeks” (49 years), after their liberation after 70 years in Babylon, Nehemiah, with the help of Ezra and, afterward, others who may have succeeded them, worked, “in the straits of the times,” with difficulty from within, among the Jews themselves, and from outside, on the part of the Samaritans and others. Even though they had returned to their homeland, it was not a particularly happy time for them. Their land was always occupied and ruled by foreign powers. When Jesus walked the earth it was the Roman Empire who dominated God’s people, just as Daniel had prophesied In his interpretation of the king’s dream vision. (Daniel ch 2)

We can see from the time periods allotted for Messiah’s first appearance that things take place according to God’s timeframe, not ours. Often many centuries are involved in the outworking of Bible prophesy and if we don’t have God’s view of time, we can get lost in the intervening years. e.g. from the fall in Eden to the first appearance of the promised seed, around 2,000 years elapsed……from Messiah’s death to the time of his return, also another 2,000 years has elapsed…..so we get the picture….
2 Peter 3:8…
”…one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.”

When Jesus presented himself for baptism to begin his sacrificial course, the Messiah was expected at that time.….some even assuming that John the Baptism might be him. (Luke 3:15)

Daniel also said that Messiah would be “cut off” in three and a half years, which was exactly the length of Jesus’ ministry. The Bible is incredibly accurate in its counting of time but it’s not in earth years that we see the big picture…..in essence, when satan tempted the first humans to rebel in Eden, and to steal from their Sovereign what he had stated was his own personal property, they were separated from God…..so he handed the human race over to the “god” they had chosen. (Luke 4:5-6) Was there a better way to demonstrate what abuse of free will can lead to…?

First hand experience was the best teacher, since they could not be told that obedience to God is always beneficial, he would let their new ruler demonstrate in real terms, what a failure he was in thinking that independence from the true God could lead to anything good. They wanted to know evil for themselves…and boy! have we see it in all its despicable manifestations over these many centuries….!

Its not that the atonement was “incomplete” but that the benefits of the atonement were yet future.
We are all still in our sinful state and we are all still dying as a result of it…..but we have the hope that even if we die, God’s will never does, and his redemption of mankind is assured because our sins are now forgiven as long as we who identify as Christians, die faithful. And those who never got a chance to know God and his son, will get that opportunity. (John 5:28-29)

So even though the real benefits are still future, we know through Daniel’s prophesy and world events, that it is not far away now. (Matt 24:3-14)

In the days of the present world powers, Daniel foretold…
”In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever, 45 just as you saw that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the copper, the clay, the silver, and the gold. The Grand God has made known to the king what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is trustworthy.”

We can count on the accuracy of that prophesy!

That it somehow depends on us? "...and all redeemed mankind are right with God..."
What's the point of redemption if it hinges on our works?

“Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but he does not have works? That faith cannot save him, can it? . . . . Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? 22 You see that his faith was active along with his works and his faith was perfected by his works . . . You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same manner, was not Raʹhab the prostitute also declared righteous by works after she received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? 26 Indeed, just as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.” (James 2:14-26)

Did any Bible writer ever say that works are not required as a proof of one’s faith? Did any of the apostles or Bible writers ever give the impression that they were all talk and no action? If you have no works to back up your words….that is all they are….empty words.

The apostle Paul’s writings are often used to excuse the lack of works….but any genuine Bible student knows that Paul was emphasizing that we cannot gain life by our works, as if it alone earns us ”Brownie points“…..none of us can “earn” a place in God’s Kingdom by what we do…..faith comes first, and it produces the works that are necessary as a demonstration of the reality of our faith….rightly motivated.
Paul is one of the greatest examples of faith in action.

We have to be showing God what our faith means in real time, and in real ways.
Why do you think that the devil tempted Jesus at a very vulnerable time in his life? He knew who Jesus was, but he had already used temptation to self interest to capture two perfect humans….here was the third perfect human to add to his accomplishments…..but Jesus showed that none of us need to yield to temptation…perfect or not. Sin is an inheritance for sure, but we are the driver of our own will. There is no excuse to offer God that because of sin, we can’t help but carry it out. We have to fight it with everything in us and we have the help of God’s spirit to accomplish it….is there a greater power in all the universe?

If in a moment of weakness we succumb, we have a High Priest who will intercede for us…..but we have to be truly repentant and be determined NOT to repeat that sin, otherwise it shows that our original repentance was not genuine.

This is the big picture for me….what about you?