Which denomination do I belong to?

[Behold]

Paul was one of the anointed “body of Christ”….his hope was indeed in a “heavenly calling”. (Heb 3:1)

Your response has nothing to do with what i posted.

You crack me up sometimes with your statements. When was Paul stoned to death? You are insinuating that Paul had a NDE…? Oh boy….he was given a revelation, O learned one. Please read your Bible. (2 Cor 12:6-7)

That you define yourself as "cracked up" seems to be an absolute fact.

And once again, you had no legit response to my Post.

Its ok with me if you dodge my posts, as... what else can you do?

The apostle John was also transported to a future time in his Revelation, but he never left the present or his body. It was his mind that was transported, like Paul’s.

John was not dead.

Paul was dead, and so, his "mind" was not available...
But his Spirit was transported, and he talked about what he witnessed, but not specifically as he was not allowed to share the specifics of His Heavenly Revelation.

Since the Bible does not say that Christ rose “bodily”,

So, you are a JW.
I thought so.

And the "bible" states that Jesus walked out of the tomb and was seen by over 500 people, after he died.

Can you "see" a Spirit?

Also, Jesus cooked fish for the apostles and ate some..
Does a spirit eat fish?

Jesus told Thomas, to "feel my hands and my side".... so, can you FEEL the side and hands of a Spirit?

So, what you are trying to believe and teach is just CULT nonsense., and nothing more.
Its really just denies common sense, and is an insult to people who can read a NT.

 

[Aunty Jane]

For those who want to know what our available copies of Scriptures say (as apposed to what commentaries say), I offer these verses. Wanting to know truth myself, I ask God to help me find conviction in His truth. I have had to work for it, and even if it upsets me because I am guilty or preaching the doctrines of man in my past, I can be set free from the teachings of man.

“You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free”…….what a wonderful liberation it is to be free of the shackles weighing Christendom’s supporters down, and keeping them in captivity. It’s why Jesus sent us out to preach….to find his precious sheep and to lead them to a new pen, free from contaminated doctrines and to enjoy unity in love in a global brotherhood. (John 13:34-35; 1 Cor 1:10)

All of the verses in 2 Chron and 1 Kings say that the dead slept with their fathers. Even King David. None, not even the one who was after God's own heart has yet been raised.

Again this is the beauty of the truth, and the one thing that drew me to God’s word in trying to find my own answers…..the sudden death of my father at a young age left me wondering why God would take a man away from his family and leave a wife and children in debt….?

Was he in heaven as the church said, or was he in hell if God did not find him worthy? So many things troubled me and the church had no answers….I left the church, angry that they gave us no comfort…or even a word of sympathy……but I never left God….and I retained the utmost respect for his word.

I kept asking God for answers as I searched for him in other places….I never found him in other denominations, who basically regurgitated the same doctrines with different ‘seasonings’…..nor did I find him in other religions. I even tried on science‘s evolution for a while, but the more I studied it, the more evidence I found for intelligent design. I was about to give up when there was a knock on my door and two ladies were there with a Bible in their hand. I usually turned these people away, but that day, for some reason, I started firing questions at them…..they asked if I had a Bible and asked if I would go and get it.
What ensued was a conversation I will never forget….rather than telling me what they thought the Bible said, they asked me to read the answers for myself in my own Bible…..I could not believe it! In that conversation on my doorstep that day, I learned more about the Bible in half an hour than I ever learned in church in my lifetime. It was the first time I heard God’s name as they asked me to read Psalm 83:18 in my KJV.
Where had this God been all my life?

In all my searching, I didn’t find God….but he found me. And it seems as if he has found you too as you are posting the things that we believe. Did you arrive at your conclusions yourself, or have you too been visited by Jehovah’s Witnesses?

 

[Aunty Jane]

But first: Daniel 12:1–2 At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Even then, the people of Israel were told that their would be "the book." Until that book is opened, everyone is "asleep.")

When Jesus said that “all in their tombs would hear his voice and come out”, (John 5:28-29) he was speaking about all the dead whom he would return to life when God’s Kingdom rules this earth….this included those who had done “vile things” before they died…..I wondered why?

Since “the wages of sin is death”, all the dead have paid for their own sins. The highest penalty one could receive for any crime was death. So Jesus’ sacrifice not only provides forgiveness of our sins while we live in imperfect flesh, but there is also opportunity for those who died in ignorance to come to a knowledge of Yahweh and his Christ.
The faithful are rewarded with life, but those who died without faith, will have an opportunity to come to that life giving knowledge in an environment free from evil (with the devil and his henchmen in prison for 1,000 years)……they will be educated in paradise conditions and in a loving atmosphere.

This I believe is what a loving God would do, since we inherited our sinful nature form Adam. Why would God punish people with no opportunity for repentance, when it wasn’t their fault to be born in sin? That is not who Yahweh is. All are given opportunity to come to know him as he really is.

A favorite verse for those who believe that they will instantly be with God when they die is: Ecclesiastes 12:7 And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Please note that there is no time mentioned in that verse. A verse that seems to offer a time frame is: Luke 23:43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.” If there has been punctuation in ancient manuscripts, it would certainly eliminated arguments today. What we have here is likely a misplaced comma.

Yes, the dreaded comma…who knew that a misplaced comma could be so pesky?
There is so much more to the story of the promise made to the thief, when you read it carefully. He was not a baptized Christian, as some want to assert, but was himself chiding Jesus with his companion at first….he had a last minute change of heart however, and the promise Jesus made him was that he would be with him in “paradise”, not heaven. He wasn’t going to be with Jesus “that day” because scripture tells us that Jesus did not go to heaven for 40 days after his resurrection. The “paradise” that Jesus promised the thief was here on earth in the resurrection.….some time in the future, but since there is no consciousness in death, he will open his eyes like he has just had a good night’s sleep….even after 2,000 years.

So, what do we do to be diligent in our desire to find truth? We let scripture interpret scripture rather than create pretexts of proof-texts.

Amen. Without man made doctrines getting in the way, the Bible does a great job at explaining itself.

I think this passage make people uncomfortable. It says that "the dead in Christ will rise first." If people die "in Christ," we want to believe that we instantly go to be with Him. But - 1 Thess 4:16–17 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

But we cannot have it both ways, right? Scripture does not conflict with scripture.

Yes, here is Paul expressly stating that the resurrection even of the elect will not take place until Christ’s return. No one went anywhere before that except Jesus. They will be resurrected “first”. (Rev 20:6)

Another uncomfortable verse: John 5:28–29 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Yes, the period of judgment is accompanied by education…..coming to know the true God and being given opportunity to bring their lives into harmony with God’s requirements will take time, so the resurrected ones are given all the time they need during the 1000 year reign of Christ to show God their true character.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Matt:28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Here, hell is called Gehenna in the manuscripts.)

You know, the one thing most people miss is what God does to those “souls” who are wicked…he “destroys” them in “Gehenna”, he does not torture them.
Another well known scripture that is easily ‘read over’ is John 3:16…

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.”
Again we see that God “destroys” those not exercising faith. So no “hell” of conscious torment is ever mentioned….just life or death….the complete opposites.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Now some will argue about when "the last day" is. But looking through scripture, we can find context.

Lazarus’ sister expressed the same thought of her brother rising “on the last day”…..so it was clearly a teaching of Jesus. (John 11:23-24)

Beware of a problem created in our English translations of the bible. The name of the only true God Yahweh has been replaced with Lord. Even when don't realize it, we end up confusing Yahweh with Yeshua.

And that is the whole foundation of the doctrine that turns a “son” and “servant“ of his God, into God himself.
If John 1:1 was correctly translated using the name of God it would read…
”In the beginning was the Word, (ho logos) and the Word was with God (ho theos or Yahweh) and the Word was divine (theos).“

Understanding of the word “theos“ (god) in Greek shows that when the definite article (ho) is used, it always pertains to Yahweh. He was the nameless God of the Jews because they had stopped using God’s name in their speech, but we see that it remained in their written text. So each time a quote was made from the Hebrew Scriptures by the Christian writers, and it contained the tetragrammaton, God’s name should be read there.

The Jewish Shema….from the Tanakh…Deuteronomy 6:4…

4 ”Hear, O Israel: The Lord is our God; the Lord is one.“ שְׁמַ֖ע יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֵ֖ינוּ יְהֹוָ֥ה | אֶחָֽד:

ד

What is missing in the English translation is visible in the Hebrew…..”יְהֹוָ֥ה” is YHWH…Yahweh or Jehovah in English.

Rev 20:11–15 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades (Tartarus = abyss) gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Interesting that “hades” gives up its dead, but “Gehenna” (also called “the lake of fire”) does not….nor is the lake of fire destroyed, like hades and death are eliminated from existence. “The second death” is one from which no one or nothing, returns. It is kept because humans will still have free will, but what they will not have in the new world to come, will be any reason or excuse to sin. Those, who like the first rebels, want to carry out their own will, cannot be allowed to remain and spoil our long awaited paradise, for everyone else.

While we certainly like to think that all our loved ones are with God now, scripture - when we let it be interpreted by scripture - does not make that claim. For those who die, it will seem to be instantaneous. For us, we can accept that it will appear that way also after we die.

Exactly, and who but a loving God would make something as painful as death seem so insignificant in the big scheme of things? Nothing more awful than a restful sleep from which Jesus will awaken them once the Kingdom rules and God’s will is “done on earth as it is in heaven”….just as Jesus taught us to pray for that to become a reality.

The incorrigibly wicked will remain in eternal death, so no one will have reason to be influence by bad people….they will no longer exist, and we can then enjoy paradise as we were meant to in the beginning….

The big picture is truly wonderful!!!

Sorry this is so long.....there is just so much to talk about.....and it’s all good!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Your response has nothing to do with what i posted.

My response had everything to do with what you posted...it just wasn’t what you wanted to hear....no surprises there.

We all have choices and those choices tell God who we really are.....unfortunately they do not inform us of our errors until the judgment......won’t it be interesting to see who is still standing and who is not....?
Who was teaching the truth, and those who only thought they were....(Matt7:21-23) Just as well Jesus knows.

That you define yourself as "cracked up" seems to be an absolute fact.

I’m sure you cracked yourself up with that one....*yawn*

And once again, you had no legit response to my Post.

Its ok with me if you dodge my posts, as... what else can you do?

What a great dodge yourself....you responded to nothing I posted by way of defence...you never do.
Attack is the weakest form of defence and that is basically all I got.

You cannot defend your beliefs scripturally and I think you know it....you just like to throw your own ideas around as if they could never be wrong....who told you they were right?

John was not dead.

LOL...neither was Paul.

Paul was dead, and so, his "mind" was not available...
But his Spirit was transported, and he talked about what he witnessed, but not specifically as he was not allowed to share the specifics of His Heavenly Revelation.

Hogwash...read the account. He never left the planet in mind or body....he had an experience that he found difficult to describe.....he said it was a “revelation”....something revealed to him......it just wasn’t an NDE.

So, you are a JW.
I thought so.

And you are....? What do you call yourself, so that I can make judgments about your particular sect.....
Are you ‘hated and persecuted’ because of your faith in Christ? Jesus said we would be. (John 15:18-21)
It goes with the territory.

And the "bible" states that Jesus walked out of the tomb and was seen by over 500 people, after he died.

Can you "see" a Spirit?

No...the reason being that Jesus was raised as a spirit, and had the ability like other spirit beings, to materialise when required.....was Gabriel a spirit when he appeared to Daniel as an able bodied man? Or to Mary to inform her of the coming birth of her child? Neither of them spoke to invisible spirits.

Also, Jesus cooked fish for the apostles and ate some..
Does a spirit eat fish?

LOL...again your knowledge of scripture is letting you down.
Think back to Abraham’s time and ask who it was that visited him to inform him about Isaac’s coming birth.
Three angels came, and Abraham had his wife prepare a feast for them....they ate and drank like any other humans. Two of them went on to Sodom to rescue Lot and his family....they too enjoyed the hospitality provided.....and where did they go once their mission was complete? Obviously they dematerialized and returned to the spirit realm. How else do you explain those occurrences? And if other spirit beings possessed the ability to manifest human form, why couldn’t Jesus?
On one occasion, Jesus appeared in a locked room (John 20:26) and on another occasion when he broke the bread at a meal, they recognised him, but he disappeared right in front of them. (Luke 24:30-31)....can a spirit do that? Yes it can.

Jesus told Thomas, to "feel my hands and my side".... so, can you FEEL the side and hands of a Spirit?

You can if the body they appeared in was specially formed to convince a doubting Thomas of his identity.
Would God have resurrected his son in the appalling physical condition that the Romans left him in?
Didn’t Jesus show the healing power of God’s spirit? Even the apostles could do that by using Jesus’ name before Pentecost. Would he have raised his son all battered and bruised with the nail holes still in his flesh?

You really don’t think things through...do you?

So, what you are trying to believe and teach is just CULT nonsense., and nothing more.

So what “cult” do you belong to? Who are your teachers? Don’t tell me, let me guess.....you have a direct line to God...right?

You have no defence for a single belief or misinterpreted scripture you ever post on here....

Its really just denies common sense, and is an insult to people who can read a NT.

You are funny....there is not an ounce of logic or common sense in any belief you hold.
If you can back up what you believe by scripture, let’s see it, and we can analyse it to see if what you say is true. To date, I have shown you often that your scripture quotations and references are so far removed from what the entirety of scripture teaches, that it becomes laughable.....yet you still cling to them....so next time you laugh...look in the mirror.

Your avatar is supposed to be Jesus...right? He would not have had long hair.....

1 Cor 11:14-15...
“Does not nature itself teach you that long hair is a dishonor to a man, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her instead of a covering.

....get your facts straight and get rid of the garbage in your own backyard before you complain about mine.
.......just sayin’.

 

[Spyder]

When Jesus said that “all in their tombs would hear his voice and come out”, (John 5:28-29) he was speaking about all the dead whom he would return to life when God’s Kingdom rules this earth….this included those who had done “vile things” before they died…..I wondered why?

Since “the wages of sin is death”, all the dead have paid for their own sins. The highest penalty one could receive for any crime was death. So Jesus’ sacrifice not only provides forgiveness of our sins while we live in imperfect flesh, but there is also opportunity for those who died in ignorance to come to a knowledge of Yahweh and his Christ.
The faithful are rewarded with life, but those who died without faith, will have an opportunity to come to that life giving knowledge in an environment free from evil (with the devil and his henchmen in prison for 1,000 years)……they will be educated in paradise conditions and in a loving atmosphere.

This I believe is what a loving God would do, since we inherited our sinful nature form Adam. Why would God punish people with no opportunity for repentance, when it wasn’t their fault to be born in sin? That is not who Yahweh is. All are given opportunity to come to know him as he really is.


Yes, the dreaded comma…who knew that a misplaced comma could be so pesky?
There is so much more to the story of the promise made to the thief, when you read it carefully. He was not a baptized Christian, as some want to assert, but was himself chiding Jesus with his companion at first….he had a last minute change of heart however, and the promise Jesus made him was that he would be with him in “paradise”, not heaven. He wasn’t going to be with Jesus “that day” because scripture tells us that Jesus did not go to heaven for 40 days after his resurrection. The “paradise” that Jesus promised the thief was here on earth in the resurrection.….some time in the future, but since there is no consciousness in death, he will open his eyes like he has just had a good night’s sleep….even after 2,000 years.

Amen. Without man made doctrines getting in the way, the Bible does a great job at explaining itself.

Yes, here is Paul expressly stating that the resurrection even of the elect will not take place until Christ’s return. No one went anywhere before that except Jesus. They will be resurrected “first”. (Rev 20:6)

Yes, the period of judgment is accompanied by education…..coming to know the true God and being given opportunity to bring their lives into harmony with God’s requirements will take time, so the resurrected ones are given all the time they need during the 1000 year reign of Christ to show God their true character.

I do so much reading your posts, my sister. There is much harmony in our understanding. I have yet to come to a conviction regarding that thousand years you speak of, so I can't concur that people who have died will get a "second chance." But, that is not a show-stopper for me.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I do so much reading your posts, my sister. There is much harmony in our understanding. I have yet to come to a conviction regarding that thousand years you speak of, so I can't concur that people who have died will get a "second chance." But, that is not a show-stopper for me.

Thank you......yes, I see much harmony in our understanding too.....on so many things.

The thousand year reign of Christ as the chief administrator of God’s (Yahweh’s) Kingdom is outlined in scripture.
Rev ch 20 mentions the “1000 years” several times and describes the role of the “elect” (“saints”, “chosen ones”) and the whole reason as to why the Kingdom was established, who will rule in this kingdom, and what its function is.

Kingdom rule begins on earth with the apprehension of the devil and his imprisonment in what is described as an “abyss” (bottomless pit) picturing a condition of restraint for a period of 1000 years.
Rev 20:1-3...
“And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while.”

So we have a 1000 years where there will be no interference from the devil on this earth; a time set aside for the accomplishment of God’s purpose concerning mankind....a period of restoration, of healing and of peace.....but satan’s imprisonment is not permanent....it serves God’s purpose, as he returns mankind to a sinless condition, including resurrected ones who perhaps did “vile things” in their former life. Satan’s influence on mankind has been global.
He is to be “released for a little while” after the expiration of that period, to test mankind one last time.

Rev 20:4-6....
“And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.”

This is describing the role of the ‘chosen ones’ who are given authority to judge.
(We remember that God also had human judges for his people in Israel’s day.)
These ones are pictured as ‘not worshipping the wild beast or its image’ (the beastly human governments and their agency the United Nations, who up till now has been an inept agency for peace) refusing to receive “the mark on their forehead and on their hand”. As human rulership becomes more controlling, and the UN is given more power by the nations, mankind will be forced to serve the beastly system in ways that true Christians cannot comply with, because they are “no part of the world”. Their refusal will bring hardship on them as they will be shut off from the services now provided in a system where dependence on governmental provisions has become a necessity. There will be ‘no buying or selling’ under this system...(Rev 13:17) so advancing to digital currency will give them great power.

Through corrupt human rulership, they have systematically, over many decades undermined self-sufficiency to such an extent that most humans cannot function without the basic fundamentals for living provided by these governments.......without their supply, be that food, water, electricity or any other government controlled service, we can see why some will be compelled to comply, even against their better judgment.

Revelation is about “the Lord’s day”...”the time of the end” that Daniel wrote about.
The book of Daniel and John’s Revelation are very similar in many ways, both speaking about our day....the time of the last human rulers in this world, just before Christ comes as judge of the “sheep and the goats”.

The ones who will rule with Christ in the Kingdom are identified as 144,000 (Rev 7:4; 14:1-4) These “come to life” during this period called “the time of the end” and it says that their role will be as “kings and priests” for the entire period of 1000 years.....the time it will take to undo all the damage that satan’s exercise of power has brought to mankind and the damage humans have done to the earth itself under his evil influence. (1 John 5:19)
It is a time of restoration and healing under the watchful eye of our God-given rulers, who are incorruptible and have proven “faithful unto death”.....these are the “saints” or “holy ones of the Supreme One”.
Daniel 7:27 confirms this...
“And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’”

So we will have one world government....not a corrupt imitation one of man’s making, but one provided by Yahweh himself, whose rulers are carefully chosen for their role as ‘kings and priests’ over redeemed mankind, bringing us back to the life we lost in Eden....everlasting life in paradise on earth.

The resurrections that Jesus performs are two separate ones...the “first” is for the elect, who will “come to life” and rule with Christ during this period called “the time of the end” where Jesus has been “present”, overseeing all that has been happening in this unprecedented time in human history.....this includes his assignment to preach about God’s Kingdom “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations” before “the end” comes. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20)

We know that Jesus said he would be “with” his disciples in this assignment, but we also see the churches of Christendom making excuses for why they don’t participate in it. The truth of the matter is, none of them really know what “the good news of the kingdom” is! And if Christ is not “with” them, then they would never succeed anyway. The fact that they are MIA is telling.

Now, when it says that “the rest of the dead did not come to life till the thousand years were ended” this is describing the condition of the entire redeemed human race.....now gaining complete freedom from the flaws inherited from Adam, and being able to stand firm in faith when the devil is released from his prison for one last test on a perfect human race......there can be no excuses or appeals to a sinful nature at this point. Humanity will be in the same condition as Adam and his wife were, just after their creation. All who pass that final test will inherit the life God meant for them in the beginning, with the full experience of the abuse of free will behind them, they will never want the world to go there again....and God will never allow it to plague his purpose ever again. Precedents are set so that no rebel will ever be allowed to abuse their free will in the future. We see that this precious gift was turned into a curse when it was misused.....

Have the human race learned by their horrible experience? Sadly the majority have not. “Few” are on the road to life because the “many” are busy fulfilling their own will, and not “doing the will” of the Father. (Matt 7:21-23)
God is ‘drawing’ his people to the truth, as we speak, ready for the war that is coming.....not a war of man against man, but a war of satan’s seed against Jesus and his angelic forces.....(Rev 16:13-16) It will be the greatest calamity ever seen on this earth, but the faithful will come through it and with God’s protection and blessing, will begin life as we were meant to live it. In a “new earth”, governed by a “new heavens”, where “righteousness is to dwell”. (2 Peter 3:13)

These are exciting and unprecedented times...a time for action, not complacency.

 

[Fred J]

Jesus said to the JEWS... that "if you keep my word's, you are my disciple, indeed".

They were disciple first as He came to them first, and at the end of their discipleship, in chapter 28, before His ascension. Jesus commissioned them to make likewise disciple of all nation and instruct them to observe all that He has commanded them, and baptize.

And that's what we witness in the day of Pentecost, the beginning of their commission, where all nation also consist of scattered Jews and Gentiles. (Ephesians 2:16-20)

There's no separate teaching and observation for Jews and Gentiles, again to stay 'divided'. Where one will be saying, I follow the 12, and another, I follow the 13th. Even Apostle Paul questions, saying, "Is Christ divided?"

 

[Spyder]

Thank you......yes, I see much harmony in our understanding too.....on so many things.

The thousand year reign of Christ as the chief administrator of God’s (Yahweh’s) Kingdom is outlined in scripture.
Rev ch 20 mentions the “1000 years” several times and describes the role of the “elect” (“saints”, “chosen ones”) and the whole reason as to why the Kingdom was established, who will rule in this kingdom, and what its function is.

Kingdom rule begins on earth with the apprehension of the devil and his imprisonment in what is described as an “abyss” (bottomless pit) picturing a condition of restraint for a period of 1000 years.
Rev 20:1-3...
“And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while.”

So we have a 1000 years where there will be no interference from the devil on this earth; a time set aside for the accomplishment of God’s purpose concerning mankind....a period of restoration, of healing and of peace.....but satan’s imprisonment is not permanent....it serves God’s purpose, as he returns mankind to a sinless condition, including resurrected ones who perhaps did “vile things” in their former life. Satan’s influence on mankind has been global.
He is to be “released for a little while” after the expiration of that period, to test mankind one last time.

Rev 20:4-6....
“And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the 1,000 years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.”

This is describing the role of the ‘chosen ones’ who are given authority to judge.
(We remember that God also had human judges for his people in Israel’s day.)
These ones are pictured as ‘not worshipping the wild beast or its image’ (the beastly human governments and their agency the United Nations, who up till now has been an inept agency for peace) refusing to receive “the mark on their forehead and on their hand”. As human rulership becomes more controlling, and the UN is given more power by the nations, mankind will be forced to serve the beastly system in ways that true Christians cannot comply with, because they are “no part of the world”. Their refusal will bring hardship on them as they will be shut off from the services now provided in a system where dependence on governmental provisions has become a necessity. There will be ‘no buying or selling’ under this system...(Rev 13:17) so advancing to digital currency will give them great power.

Through corrupt human rulership, they have systematically, over many decades undermined self-sufficiency to such an extent that most humans cannot function without the basic fundamentals for living provided by these governments.......without their supply, be that food, water, electricity or any other government controlled service, we can see why some will be compelled to comply, even against their better judgment.

Revelation is about “the Lord’s day”...”the time of the end” that Daniel wrote about.
The book of Daniel and John’s Revelation are very similar in many ways, both speaking about our day....the time of the last human rulers in this world, just before Christ comes as judge of the “sheep and the goats”.

The ones who will rule with Christ in the Kingdom are identified as 144,000 (Rev 7:4; 14:1-4) These “come to life” during this period called “the time of the end” and it says that their role will be as “kings and priests” for the entire period of 1000 years.....the time it will take to undo all the damage that satan’s exercise of power has brought to mankind and the damage humans have done to the earth itself under his evil influence. (1 John 5:19)
It is a time of restoration and healing under the watchful eye of our God-given rulers, who are incorruptible and have proven “faithful unto death”.....these are the “saints” or “holy ones of the Supreme One”.
Daniel 7:27 confirms this...
“And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all rulerships will serve and obey them.’”

So we will have one world government....not a corrupt imitation one of man’s making, but one provided by Yahweh himself, whose rulers are carefully chosen for their role as ‘kings and priests’ over redeemed mankind, bringing us back to the life we lost in Eden....everlasting life in paradise on earth.

The resurrections that Jesus performs are two separate ones...the “first” is for the elect, who will “come to life” and rule with Christ during this period called “the time of the end” where Jesus has been “present”, overseeing all that has been happening in this unprecedented time in human history.....this includes his assignment to preach about God’s Kingdom “in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations” before “the end” comes. (Matt 24:14; Matt 28:19-20)

We know that Jesus said he would be “with” his disciples in this assignment, but we also see the churches of Christendom making excuses for why they don’t participate in it. The truth of the matter is, none of them really know what “the good news of the kingdom” is! And if Christ is not “with” them, then they would never succeed anyway. The fact that they are MIA is telling.

Now, when it says that “the rest of the dead did not come to life till the thousand years were ended” this is describing the condition of the entire redeemed human race.....now gaining complete freedom from the flaws inherited from Adam, and being able to stand firm in faith when the devil is released from his prison for one last test on a perfect human race......there can be no excuses or appeals to a sinful nature at this point. Humanity will be in the same condition as Adam and his wife were, just after their creation. All who pass that final test will inherit the life God meant for them in the beginning, with the full experience of the abuse of free will behind them, they will never want the world to go there again....and God will never allow it to plague his purpose ever again. Precedents are set so that no rebel will ever be allowed to abuse their free will in the future. We see that this precious gift was turned into a curse when it was misused.....

Have the human race learned by their horrible experience? Sadly the majority have not. “Few” are on the road to life because the “many” are busy fulfilling their own will, and not “doing the will” of the Father. (Matt 7:21-23)
God is ‘drawing’ his people to the truth, as we speak, ready for the war that is coming.....not a war of man against man, but a war of satan’s seed against Jesus and his angelic forces.....(Rev 16:13-16) It will be the greatest calamity ever seen on this earth, but the faithful will come through it and with God’s protection and blessing, will begin life as we were meant to live it. In a “new earth”, governed by a “new heavens”, where “righteousness is to dwell”. (2 Peter 3:13)

These are exciting and unprecedented times...a time for action, not complacency.

Thanks. I guess it is time for me to review all of this and, perhaps, find a thread already directed this way.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Thanks. I guess it is time for me to review all of this and, perhaps, find a thread already directed this way.

Please feel free to compare notes any time….not sure if you will find much on this topic, but it sure is an interesting one….God’s first purpose for the human race was entirely earthly….so those who expect to go to heaven, just because they believe in Jesus Christ, will come to disappointment. Going to heaven was never in God’s first purpose.

Rev 21:2-4 tells us that God will be with “man” when the kingdom rules.
“I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Jesus is seen with his “bride” bringing their rulership to humankind, undoing all the damage we have endured on this earth, all the things causing us grief and hardships. World rulership was given over to satan to prove that his claims are absolutely without foundation.….those “former things” will “pass away”…they will be completely removed. The earth will undergo a permanent cleansing.

Going back to Eden we see that satan lied to the woman about God’s motives in forbidding access to the TKGE, and about the penalty, stating that they would not die, but that taking this fruit would make them “like God, knowing good and evil” for themselves. What he was really saying was that it was he who wanted to be “like God” having the humans worship him and serving his interests.

We have the devil tempting even Jesus to give him worship, promising to give him “all the kingdoms of the world“ if he would do just “one” act of worship. How could he make such an offer to Jesus so that it would be a temptation? He was inviting Jesus to contemplate receiving a kingdom there and then, not having to undergo a painful death and therefore not paying the ransom needed to save the human race. The devil said that world rulership had been “delivered“ to him and that he could give it to whomever he wished. (Luke 4:5-8) The fact that Jesus saw through his temptations and focussed on the reason why he was sent, was shown by his resolute stand on all three temptations….referring to God’s word (“it is written”) on each occasion.

I love the way the Bible takes us back to the beginning to show us what we can expect at the end of this most important object lesson. If only the first humans had simply obeyed God’s command because it was from their Sovereign Ruler, we would not be in this mess. If satan had been the only one to abuse his free will, God would have dealt with him and we would never have known what evil was.

Sadly, all three plunged us into a situation whereby Yahweh had to show us the results of making bad decisions in opposition to our Creator’s laws. He tried to tell them, but all three disobeyed him, creating an opportunity to demonstrate the folly of such disobedience in the consequences of their actions. This applied to his angelic sons as well as his human creation, so it has served a universal purpose….no creature in heaven or on earth will ever be allowed to abuse their free will again, so that God’s will can “be done on earth as it is in heaven”.
Perfect harmony will be achieved and whatever God’s future plans will be (it’s a big universe) they will go ahead unimpeded by any who might seek independence from their Sovereign Ruler in the future.

God’s purpose has never changed….he has a bright future in store for all who love and obey him.
There are many gems in that treasure chest.

 

[TheHC]

I do so much reading your posts, my sister. There is much harmony in our understanding. I have yet to come to a conviction regarding that thousand years you speak of, so I can't concur that people who have died will get a "second chance." But, that is not a show-stopper for me.

Hey, I’ve enjoyed reading your posts…

About getting a “second chance”:

Keep in mind, God’s greatest quality, love. He knows just how much of an influence Satan has had / is having on this world!
So does Jesus.

The price paid to redeem mankind — the life of God’s own firstborn Son Jesus — was too high to not allow as many as possible to benefit.

That would be the loving & merciful way to act.

We just had some information on this topic recently….remember the daily text a few days ago, @Aunty Jane ? Regarding those who have committed “heinous” acts?

 

[Spyder]

No sir, I don't think I have seen that one.

 

[Aunty Jane]

No sir, I don't think I have seen that one.

Hi Spyder, @TheHC was referring to our “daily text”, which is a brief scripture and comment that we (Jehovah’s Witnesses) use to begin our day on a spiritual note.

The text he referred to was as follows....

“He knew what was in man.—John 2:25.

In their former life, some of the “unrighteous” practiced horrible, vile things. They will therefore need to be taught how to live according to Jehovah’s righteous standards. To meet that need, God’s Kingdom will direct the greatest educational program in all human history. Who will teach the unrighteous? The great crowd and the resurrected righteous ones. In order for the unrighteous to have their names written in the book of life, they will need to develop a relationship with Jehovah and dedicate themselves to him. The progress of all these unrighteous ones will be followed with great interest by Jesus Christ and his fellow judges. (Rev. 20:4) Any who refuse to respond favorably to such help will be removed—even though they may be 100 years of age. (Isa. 65:20) Jehovah and Jesus can read hearts and will see to it that no one will be allowed to cause any ruin in the new world.—Isa. 11:9; 60:18; 65:25.”

This is why it is important to understand the role of the kingdom.....it’s purpose is for Jesus and his co-rulers to deliver to Jehovah, at the end of the 1000 years, a perfected human race, free from the sinful condition that Adam imposed on all of us.

God’s righteousness means that he hold us accountable for the sins we commit deliberately, when we know better, demonstrated by the first three rebels who all knew better, but decided to disobey their Sovereign Lord anyway for purely selfish reasons.

As was demonstrated in Israel and by Jesus himself....education was paramount among Jehovah’s people.
Knowledge dispels ignorance, so God wants his people to be educated so that they know what he expects of them, and what they can expect from him in return.

We as a global Christian brotherhood, emphasise Bible education as our primary activity. We study it as a set program in all the congregations world wide in order to maintain unity of thought and practice. We also make time for personal study so that we understand what the Bible teaches, and we uphold all of its standards, no matter what the world is doing. (John 17:16; John 18:36) But it also means that we will be hated and persecuted because we will not uphold beliefs and practices that are unscriptural. (John 15:18-21)
The first Christians were persecuted and hated by those who claimed to worship the same God, but who had been led astray by corrupt men, teaching man-made traditions and not upholding the word of God, thereby invalidating their worship. (Matt 15:7-9)

Those who lived and died in ignorance will not be judged adversely, no matter what “vile things” they may have committed in the past, but in the resurrection, they will be given opportunity to bring their lives into harmony with God’s standards as a natural part of their personality during that thousand years. There will be no satan to distract them or to lead them astray.

We have so much to look forward to after the cleansing of this earth takes place.....but satan and his hordes (demons and their evil human servants) will not go down without a fight. The showdown will be a “great tribulation”....the hardest thing humanity has ever experienced. (Matt 24:21-22)
If we do not strengthen our faith now, in these “last days”, we will be like a runner in a marathon who has done little training. As Jesus said....”But the one who has endured to the end will be saved”. Endurance comes from enduring....like a muscle that is regularly exercised to maintain its strength.

We are living in “critical times hard to deal with” (2 Tim 3:1-5)......and the devil is angry because he knows his time is short. (Rev 12:7-12) It is no accident that wickedness is rapidly increasing because of the activity of satan and his demons trying to take as many down with them as they can.

Jesus said it would be “just like the days of Noah” in the days of his return (Matt 24:37-39)....and here we are, with the world wondering what on earth has happened to morality, respect and peace.....all virtually missing at this juncture....but all foretold so that we know where we are in the stream of time.

It is a time for decisions and we have to make them in an informed way, with solid Bible knowledge, not just emotion, as we see many here do. Sincerity is not enough....it has to be directed by the Bible’s truth, which the devil has managed to bury in a whole lot of false doctrines in his counterfeit “Christianity”......the “weeds” of Jesus’ parable.

May we all make the right decisions.....for all the right reasons.

 

[Spyder]

The first Christians were persecuted and hated by those who claimed to worship the same God, but who had been led astray by corrupt men, teaching man-made traditions and not upholding the word of God, thereby invalidating their worship.

Mt 15:7–9 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

Absolutely true. I have experienced the reaction of others whom I call brother and sister when I study scriptures to see what God actually has given us. I pray for them as they choose to believe man's logic and wordsmithing of selected proof-texts to support their mandated beliefs. I have tried to generate their interest in the verses that they have NOT been shown. Instead, they distance themselves further from me. It hurts my heart, but it is up to God now.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Mt 15:7–9 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said: ‘This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me; in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

Absolutely true. I have experienced the reaction of others whom I call brother and sister when I study scriptures to see what God actually has given us. I pray for them as they choose to believe man's logic and wordsmithing of selected proof-texts to support their mandated beliefs. I have tried to generate their interest in the verses that they have NOT been shown. Instead, they distance themselves further from me. It hurts my heart, but it is up to God now.

Yes....those who have closed their hearts to the truth, view any deviation from their man-made doctrines as heresy, and will treat those of us who try to tell them about the origins of their beliefs and practices, as if we had sinned against God.
This is exactly what the Pharisees did in Jesus’ day....they taught things that were against their scripture, twisting it to benefit themselves, and led the people away from God. When Jesus came to correct their teachings, they despised him and plotted his murder......something that religious leaders in Israel had repeated throughout their history as Jesus said in his condemnation of them....

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it.” (Matt 23:37)

So complete was the satanic influence of the Pharisees, that the people stood in front of their Messiah at his standing before Pilate, and cursed themselves and their children with his blood. (Matt 27:25)

History repeats because human nature does not change, and satan knows how to play the same game with human emotions, generation after generation. He has again, turned the lies into truth and the truth into lies.
The deception is the same, just with a different generations of “believers”.

We can pray for those who cannot see the truth, but at the end of the day....it is as you say....”up to God” to open their hearts.....or not. (John 6:44, 65) He is choosing citizens for his Kingdom, and those who have no love for the truth will be missing. They choose their delusion over the truth of God’s word, so it is their choice to make.....no one is forced to love the truth....it comes from a complete heart.