Which kind of FAITH regarding JESUS do you have?

[Episkopos]

Do you make a distinction between Christ in you and you in Him?

This is too great a mystery for the present times. It's so basic yet not understood. This proves how few indeed have entered into Christ. Entering INTO Christ remains the best-kept secret in the world.

All the promises are for those who are IN Christ as abiders, not just believers in Christ. The distinction is one of life and death.

We only reap of the Spirit as we sow to the Spirit. But the modern church teaches that to go after Christ is based on a works gospel. So the devil has taken over the teaching and slack believers find the ease of it irresistible.

 

[marks]

It isn't wise to rely on dogmatic beliefs when there is a lack of victory that shows those dogmatic beliefs for what they are...a trust in the flesh.

That seems rather obvious, right? If you are doggedly holding to something that isn't working, yes, maybe better to seek something better?

People will sin until they are filled with the Spirit.

Galatians 5:16-18 LITV
16) But I say, Walk in the Spirit, and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
17) For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another; lest whatever you may will, these things you do.
18) But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under Law.

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Why should anyone recognize that there are "two kinds of faith" when the Bible does not present any such nonsense? How come you always come up with these erroneous ideas?

And genuine Christians do not "keep sinning". Another nonsensical idea. By the same token, even the apostle Paul was not on the same mountain peak as you. He never claimed sinless perfection (as do you). So genuine Christians can and do sin, but that is not the same as "keep sinning" (a lifestyle of sinful behavior).

It only sounds nonsensical from a human standpoint. No amount of our faith can do miracles. But even the smallest amount of faith can move mountains. This is obviously not human beliefs.

Drug addicts can fully believe they can fly...and die trying. This shows that human beliefs have ZERO power. So there is a faith and trust in God from men that God can choose to recognize or not. But Jesus never said that God needed to approve the faith that He was speaking of.
The faith OF Christ was not available to men until given access by the resurrection power of Christ. Of course those who have never known that kind of life and power will rail against its existence...as do all unbelievers. But this only proves where a person is coming from. Only the spiritual in Christ will attest to the power of it. And this power is NOT through human means. So we can have faith in God...as people of all religions can have. But the faith OF Christ keeps us in an abiding place with God where there is no spot or wrinkle of sin.

Read the bible more carefully.

 

[Scott Downey]

They wrote to the gentiles, to address the matter for them. Judiazers where trying to subvert them into the Law, and the Apostles gave them 4 rules to follow since the Jews were so steeped in Moses.

Much love!

The apostles even said they could not keep the LAW
God purified their hearts by faith.
And that all are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ
That the keeping of the LAW was a yoke on their necks that they could not bear.

Acts 15
5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

 

[marks]

This is too great a mystery for the present times.

God is the revealer of mysteries.

Romans 6:3-4 LITV
3) Or are you ignorant that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4) Therefore, we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, so also we should walk in newness of life.

2 Corinthians 5:16-19 LITV
16) So as we now know no one according to flesh, but even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we no longer know Him so.
17) So that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new!
18) And all things are from God, the One having reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and having given to us the ministry of reconciliation,
19) as, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not charging their deviations to them, and having put the Word of reconciliation in us.

Romans 8:8-11 LITV
8) And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.
9) But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.
10) But if Christ is in you, the body indeed is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of the One having raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised the Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies live through the indwelling of His Spirit in you.

There is of course much more to be said.

Romans 12:1-2 LITV
1) Therefore, brothers, I call on you through the compassions of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service.
2) And be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is the good and pleasing and perfect will of God.

Christ in you, the hope of glory!

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

God is the revealer of mysteries.

Romans 6:3-4 LITV
3) Or are you ignorant that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4) Therefore, we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, so also we should walk in newness of life.

2 Corinthians 5:16-19 LITV
16) So as we now know no one according to flesh, but even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we no longer know Him so.
17) So that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new!
18) And all things are from God, the One having reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and having given to us the ministry of reconciliation,
19) as, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not charging their deviations to them, and having put the Word of reconciliation in us.

Romans 8:8-11 LITV
8) And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.
9) But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.
10) But if Christ is in you, the body indeed is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of the One having raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised the Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies live through the indwelling of His Spirit in you.

There is of course much more to be said.

Romans 12:1-2 LITV
1) Therefore, brothers, I call on you through the compassions of God to present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, pleasing to God, which is your reasonable service.
2) And be not conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, in order to prove by you what is the good and pleasing and perfect will of God.

Christ in you, the hope of glory!

Much love!

You are mistaken in taking verses about the baptism and further fillings of the Spirit and trying to apply that to receiving an initial grace as a sample at regeneration. Are you determined to NOT sow to the Spirit? Are you determined to think it is wrong for God to reap where He has not sown? Are you so spooked about this false idea of a "works" gospel that you will cling to a sinking ship and call it a pleasure cruise?

 

[marks]

It only sounds nonsensical from a human standpoint. No amount of our faith can do miracles. But even the smallest amount of faith can move mountains. This is obviously not human beliefs.

You are completely correct here, I think. No human belief - by itself - means anything other than that it will impact our behavior, and how we think about things, and so what?

Belief alone is meaningless. Devils believe. Anyone can believe anything.

John 1:11-13 LITV
11) He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
12) But as many as received Him, to them He gave authority to become children of God, to the ones believing into His name,
13) who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.

Romans 5:10-11 LITV
10) For if while being enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life;
11) and not only so, but also glorying in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we now received the reconciliation.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Are you determined to NOT sow to the Spirit?

Interesting question.

Are you not determined to sow to the Spirit? Do you not receive spiritual things?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Are you so spooked about this false idea of a "works" gospel that you will cling to a sinking ship and call it a pleasure cruise?

Are you so mystified by the words of Scripture that you'd rather talk about me?

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Paul pretty much said the same thing himself, though he went on to explain that this didn't mean he was actually right in everything, and that Jesus, the One Who truly knows our hearts, He is the One Who will judge us.

Myself, I wouldn't be so bold.

Much love!

1 John 3:21
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

And the next verse is true too.
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

 

[marks]

You are mistaken in taking verses about the baptism and further fillings of the Spirit and trying to apply that to receiving an initial grace as a sample at regeneration.

Romans 6:3-4 LITV
3) Or are you ignorant that all who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4) Therefore, we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, so also we should walk in newness of life.

2 Corinthians 5:16-19 LITV
16) So as we now know no one according to flesh, but even if we have known Christ according to flesh, yet now we no longer know Him so.
17) So that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new!
18) And all things are from God, the One having reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and having given to us the ministry of reconciliation,
19) as, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not charging their deviations to them, and having put the Word of reconciliation in us.

Romans 8:8-11 LITV
8) And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.
9) But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.
10) But if Christ is in you, the body indeed is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11) But if the Spirit of the One having raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, the One having raised the Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies live through the indwelling of His Spirit in you.

You are "in spirit" if the Spirit of God is in you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

1 John 3:21
21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God.

And the next verse is true too.
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.

That's the key! Resting in the finished work of Christ.

Romans 5:19 LITV
19) For as through the one man's disobedience the many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be constituted righteous.


Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That's the key! Resting in the finished work of Christ.

Romans 5:19 LITV
19) For as through the one man's disobedience the many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be constituted righteous.


Much love!

The problem with that as I experienced was that I was in church for 30 years thinking I was resting in Jesus, but the reality was that I was not saved. Only after actually receiving the Holy Spirit inside me did I understand what being "born again" was all about. It was freedom from the desire to sin.

That is my fear for today's Church. I see that most haven't a clue what freedom from sin is all about. The "rest" is in our quiet conscience. There is peace - no stumbling in the dark.

 

[marks]

The problem with that as I experienced was that I was in church for 30 years thinking I was resting in Jesus, but the reality was that I was not saved.

OK, but that was your experience, and experience doesn't change Biblical teaching.

We can have various experiences - I remember, I've related in some detail a very supernatural "state of living" experience I had at one time, and maybe I correctly understand it and maybe I don't. Others have experiences, maybe they understand them, maybe it get's confusing.

So for myself, I just hold to the teaching of the Bible, and if I don't seem to understand my life, that's OK.

The Bible teaches us that the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirits that we are the children of God, so I'd have to ask, do you have that testimony? What does that mean to you that you do? Do you see how you did not have that testimony then?

That is my fear for today's Church. I see that most haven't a clue what freedom from sin is all about. The "rest" is in our quiet conscience. There is peace - no stumbling in the dark.

In these words, I agree with you completely. I feel the same way, and I find the same answer.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

OK, but that was your experience, and experience doesn't change Biblical teaching.

It certainly confirms Biblical teaching though, and stops from believing scriptures taken out of context. It still baffles me how many believe that Paul's teaching in Romans 7 about what it is like being under the law with a sinful nature intact differs from the law of the Spirit of life in Christ in the next chapter, where we are no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit. A lot of that has to do with believing teachers rather than confirming what were they teaching with the Bible, and IN CONTEXT.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The Bible teaches us that the Holy Spirit testifies with our spirits that we are the children of God, so I'd have to ask, do you have that testimony? What does that mean to you that you do? Do you see how you did not have that testimony then?

Of course. My whole life since being filled with the Holy Spirit is different than my life before. And being able to hear His voice and what He teaches me confirms that the Spirit does reside in me powerfully. 1 John 3:21-24

21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Do you make a distinction between Christ in you and you in Him?

No. They are at the same time. We are one. John 17

It also sheds new light on "My sheep HEAR my voice." It's literal.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That's the key! Resting in the finished work of Christ.

Romans 5:19 LITV
19) For as through the one man's disobedience the many were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be constituted righteous.


Much love!

Actually, or just theologically?

In my studies of different doctrines about the same thing, I am finding that some have difference reasons for Christ dying on the cross and what He actually accomplished. They start with a verse not about a Christian, like 1 John 1:8, and determine that Jesus DID NOT take away our sin nature, or that we now have two natures. No, it plainly states that our old nature is crucified with Christ. And that we are NOT IN THE FLESH BUT IN THE SPIRIT, if the Spirit of God dwells within us.

Not only does that apply to the sins unto death, but eventually also about the fruit of the Spirit maturing to complete ripeness so that you don't even commit sins not unto death.

 

[marks]

Actually, or just theologically?

We've been over this a number of times. In reality, my friend! A new reality, in a new humanity, in Christ. But we still reside in flesh until our death.

Death is not cessation, it is separation. The flesh is not some wispy idea, some "second inner man", it's our fleshy body. Just these two differences will ensure we go around in circles endlessly, and there is no benefit in that.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

Those who keep sinning but call themselves Christians are not safe from hell..

There are no born again Christians in Hell.

There are no Christ rejectors in Heaven.

God does not count sin against the born again, Romans 4:8. so to teach that a born again person could go to hell, is to reject that Christ has paid for all their sin...which is why Romans 4:8 exists.

And to teach that only past sins are forgiven, is to teach that you keep yourself saved, as you are denying that Christ keeps you saved if you teach that only past sins are forgiven.
And to teach that, rejects the Cross while pretending that you believe in Christ.

There is nothing crazier then a theology that teaches that there is no sin, if you are born again, yet, you can go to hell because of sinning...if you are born again.
Even a non believer, can realize how crazy that thought process is.....as its really really deceived and confused and anti-Cross.

Don't be that person, reader.